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Old 04-22-2005, 07:37 AM   #1 (permalink)
Delay is at it again. He wants to appoint politically religous juges

What is with this asshole? Is he such a moron? or just a nazi wearing a $800 suit? He wants to PUNISH judges for upholding the law that happens to disagree with his fanatical right wing christianity ideology.

I bet if Jesus was alive today, Jesus would send this asshole straight to hell.



2 Evangelicals Want to Strip Courts' Funds Taped at a private conference, the leaders outline ways to punish jurists they oppose.

2 Evangelicals Want to Strip Courts' Funds


By Peter Wallsten, Times Staff Writer

WASHINGTON — Evangelical Christian leaders, who have been working closely with senior Republican lawmakers to place conservative judges in the federal courts, have also been exploring ways to punish sitting jurists and even entire courts viewed as hostile to their cause.

An audio recording obtained by the Los Angeles Times features two of the nation's most influential evangelical leaders, at a private conference with supporters, laying out strategies to rein in judges, such as stripping funding from their courts in an effort to hinder their work.

The discussion took place during a Washington conference last month that included addresses by House Majority Leader Tom DeLay and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, who discussed efforts to bring a more conservative cast to the courts.

Frist and DeLay have not publicly endorsed the evangelical groups' proposed actions. But the taped discussion among evangelical leaders provides a glimpse of the road map they are drafting as they work with congressional Republicans to achieve a judiciary that sides with them on abortion, same-sex marriage and other elements of their agenda.

"There's more than one way to skin a cat, and there's more than one way to take a black robe off the bench," said Tony Perkins, president of the conservative Family Research Council, according to an audiotape of a March 17 session. The tape was provided to The Times by the advocacy group Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

DeLay has spoken generally about one of the ideas the leaders discussed in greater detail: using legislative tactics to withhold money from courts.

"We set up the courts. We can unset the courts. We have the power of the purse," DeLay said at an April 13 question-and-answer session with reporters.

The leaders present at the March conference, including Perkins and James C. Dobson, founder of the influential group Focus on the Family, have been working with Frist to eliminate the filibuster for judicial nominations, a legislative tool that has allowed Senate Democrats to stall 10 of President Bush's nominations. Frist is scheduled to appear, via a taped statement, during a satellite broadcast to churches nationwide Sunday that the Family Research Council has organized to build support for the Bush nominees.

The March conference featuring Dobson and Perkins showed that the evangelical leaders, in addition to working to place conservative nominees on the bench, have been trying to find ways to remove certain judges.

Perkins said that he had attended a meeting with congressional leaders a week earlier where the strategy of stripping funding from certain courts was "prominently" discussed. "What they're thinking of is not only the fact of just making these courts go away and re-creating them the next day but also defunding them," Perkins said.

He said that instead of undertaking the long process of trying to impeach judges, Congress could use its appropriations authority to "just take away the bench, all of his staff, and he's just sitting out there with nothing to do."

These curbs on courts are "on the radar screen, especially of conservatives here in Congress," he said.

Dobson, who emerged last year as one of the evangelical movement's most important political leaders, named one potential target: the California-based U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.

"Very few people know this, that the Congress can simply disenfranchise a court," Dobson said. "They don't have to fire anybody or impeach them or go through that battle. All they have to do is say the 9th Circuit doesn't exist anymore, and it's gone."

Robert Stevenson, a spokesman for Frist, said Thursday that the Senate leader does not agree with the idea of defunding courts or shutting them down, pointing to Frist's comments earlier this month embracing a "fair and independent judiciary." A spokesman for DeLay declined to comment.

The remarks by Perkins and Dobson drew fire from Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, who charged that the two leaders were more brazen in such private encounters with supporters than their more genteel public images portray.

"To talk about defunding judges is just about the most bizarre, radical approach to controlling the outcome of court decisions that you can imagine," Lynn said.

Frist is expected to try as early as next week to push the Senate to ban filibusters on judicial nominations — a move so explosive that Democrats are calling it the "nuclear option."

Democrats have been using the filibuster to block 10 of Bush's appeals court nominees who they believe are too extreme in their views, but the skirmishes are considered a preview of a highly anticipated fight over replacing the ailing Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist, whose retirement is considered imminent.

"Folks, I am telling you all that it is going to be the mother of all battles," Dobson predicted at the March 17 meeting. "And it's right around the corner. I mean, Justice Rehnquist could resign at any time, and the other side is mobilized to the teeth."

The remarks by Perkins and Dobson reflect the passion felt by Christians who helped fuel Bush's reelection last year with massive turnout in battleground states, and who also spurred Republican gains in the Senate and House.

Claiming a role by the movement in the GOP gains, Dobson concluded: "We've got a right to hold them accountable for what happens here."

Both leaders chastised what Perkins termed "squishy" and "weak" Republican senators who have not wholeheartedly endorsed ending Democrats' power to filibuster judicial nominees. They said these included moderates such as Sens. Olympia J. Snowe and Susan Collins of Maine, Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island, Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania and Chuck Hagel of Nebraska. They also grumbled that Sens. Mitch McConnell of Kentucky and George Allen of Virginia needed prodding.

"We need to shake these guys up," Perkins said.

Said Dobson: "Sometimes it's just amazing to me that they seem to forget how they got here."

Even Bush was not spared criticism. Dobson and Perkins encouraged their supporters to demand that the president act as aggressively on the judiciary as he has for his Social Security overhaul.

"These are not Bill Frist's nominees; these are President George W. Bush's nominees," Perkins said. "He needs to be out there putting pressure on these senators who are weak on this issue and standing in obstruction to these nominations," he said.

Dobson chided Frist, a likely 2008 presidential contender, for not acting sooner on the filibuster issue, urging "conservatives all over the country" to tell Frist "that he needs to get on with it."

Dobson also said Republicans risked inflicting long-term damage on their party if they failed to seize the moment — a time when Bush still has the momentum of his reelection victory — to transform the courts. He said they had just 18 months to act before Bush becomes a "lame-duck president."

"If we let that 18 months get away from us and then maybe we got Hillary to deal with or who knows what, we absolutely will not recover from that," he said.

Perkins and Dobson laid out a history of court rulings they found offensive, singling out the recent finding by the Supreme Court that executing minors was unconstitutional. They criticized Justice Anthony M. Kennedy's majority opinion, noting that the Republican appointee had cited the laws of foreign nations that, Dobson said, applied the same standard as "the most liberal countries in Europe."

"What about Latin America, South America, Central America? What about China? What about Africa?" Dobson asked. "They pick and choose the international law that they want and then apply it here as though we're somehow accountable to Europe. I resent that greatly."

DeLay has also criticized Kennedy for citing foreign laws in that opinion, calling the practice "outrageous."

As part of the discussion, Perkins and Dobson referred to remarks by Dobson earlier this year at a congressional dinner in which he singled out the use by one group of the cartoon character SpongeBob SquarePants in a video that Dobson said promoted a homosexual agenda.

Dobson was ridiculed for his comments, which some critics interpreted to mean the evangelist had determined that the cartoon character was gay.

Dobson said the beating he took in the media, coming after his appearance on the cover of newsmagazines hailing his prominence in Bush's reelection, proved that the press will only seek to tear him down.

"This will not be the last thing that you read about that makes me look ridiculous," he said.
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Old 04-22-2005, 08:35 AM   #2 (permalink)
will always be an Alyson Hanniganite
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Originally Posted by Mobo123
Dobson said "This will not be the last thing that you read about that makes me look ridiculous," he said.
Gee...ya think?
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.
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Old 04-22-2005, 10:31 AM   #3 (permalink)
When Delay can attack the judiciary as he does, and isn't immediately smacked down
by members of his own party, you know we have serious, serious problems in our federal legislative branch.
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Old 04-22-2005, 11:22 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Location: In the land of ice and snow.
I am always amazed by the shortsightedness of those in the christian right. A minority religious group wants to destroy the ability of the judiciary to protect minority groups. Hmmm, sounds like a good idea. Reminds of a mexican neo-nazi i once knew.

If they are able to castrate the judiciary, it will only be a matter of time before most christians realize that their brand of christianity has very little to do with the christian right's brand of christianity. Then, hopefully, america rejects the religious right for the hypocritical sham that it is.

I can only imagine what kind of fun laws we can pass, in the spirit of the religious right, without meddling by "activist" judges, to limit the freedoms of those on the religious right. I'm thinking of something along the lines of criminalizing hetero marriage just for evangelicals. Maybe forced abortions for anyone related to pat robertson. There's a lot you can do when you don't have judges meddling in the business of law.
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Old 04-22-2005, 12:06 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Location: io-where?
"We set up the courts. We can unset the courts. We have the power of the purse," DeLay said at an April 13 question-and-answer session with reporters.
Isn't this pretty much the equivalent of the old, "I brought you into this world and I can take you out of it!," line that moms use when their kids are being rowdy?
the·o·ry - a working hypothesis that is considered probable based on experimental evidence or factual or conceptual analysis and is accepted as a basis for experimentation.
faith - Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
- Merriam-Webster's dictionary
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Old 04-22-2005, 02:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
All important elusive independent swing voter...
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Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
Isn't this a breach of separation of powers or checks & balances?

That is really un American! The Republicans hate America and are terrorists, Traitors!

See how ridiculous that sounds? I hate partisan bickering....
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Old 04-22-2005, 03:37 PM   #7 (permalink)
Originally Posted by jorgelito
Isn't this a breach of separation of powers or checks & balances?

Of course you are correct. We have three branches of government. This ahole Delay wants his republican-led congress to control the judiciary branch.

Where are we? America or Soviet Russia?
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Old 04-22-2005, 03:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
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sometimes i wonder if this kind of thing is but a test of limits, the christian right checking to see how far it can go.

that would be my optimistic self speaking.
that would be optimism, then.
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite
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Old 04-22-2005, 03:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
Originally Posted by roachboy
sometimes i wonder if this kind of thing is but a test of limits, the christian right checking to see how far it can go.

that would be my optimistic self speaking.
that would be optimism, then.
YOu would actually welcome a right wing christian government telling us non-believers how and what to think and do?

Our founding fathers understood the vast importance of the separation of state and church. Our current leaders have apparently forgotten that.

roachboy, i sure hope i misunderstood your post. Delay deserves to be squashed like a cockroach.

Last edited by Mobo123; 04-22-2005 at 03:41 PM..
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Old 04-22-2005, 03:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Location: essex ma
trust me, you misunderstood the post.
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite
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Old 04-22-2005, 03:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
Originally Posted by roachboy
trust me, you misunderstood the post.

If i could animate a big sigh of relief, consider it done.
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Old 04-23-2005, 10:15 AM   #12 (permalink)
Originally Posted by roachboy
sometimes i wonder if this kind of thing is but a test of limits, the christian right checking to see how far it can go.

that would be my optimistic self speaking.
that would be optimism, then.
No....roachboy, this could be a watershed moment in American politics that we are witnessing......the "people of faith" have gone over the top. We can only hope that after their "telecast" tomorrow, and after the outcome of the senate fillibuster showdown, like Robert E. Lee, after Gettysburg, they will declare victory, but retreat with a wagon train full of wounded, 17 miles long, never to be as formidable of a force again.
<a href="http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/misc/gettysburg/text.htm">http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/misc/gettysburg/text.htm</a>
End of Invasion

Lee, as he looked over the desolate field of dead and wounded and the broken remnants of his once-powerful army still ready for renewed battle, must have realized that not only was Gettysburg lost, but that eventually it might all end this way. Meade did not counterattack, as expected. The following day, July 4, the two armies lay facing each other, exhausted and torn.

Late on the afternoon of July 4, Lee began an orderly retreat. The wagon train of wounded, 17 miles in length, guarded by Imboden's cavalry, started homeward through Greenwood and Greencastle.
In teh meantime..........
<a href="http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_3723559,00.html">http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_3723559,00.html</a>
Littwin: Angry Salazar focuses his wrath on Dobson

April 23, 2005

Ken Salazar is a person of faith. We know that much about him.

I mean, if you're a politician and you call out James Dobson's Focus on the Family, you've got to be a major believer - and in something other than poll numbers.

But what surprises me is that Salazar - the same not-exactly-ferocious Ken Salazar we've known for years - would have enough faith in himself and his political future to take on Dobson, Focus on the Family and, conceivably, every evangelical Christian that tunes in Dobson on the radio.

Salazar doesn't see it that way. He says he had no choice.

Look, it's not just faith you need to determine that people do occasionally recognize a demagogue when they see one. Or that many Americans know the difference between democracy and theocracy, even if we're shaky on the original Greek.

And you don't need faith - just a close look - to see the battle over judicial nominations and filibusters in the U.S. Senate is not a war against "people of faith."

How presumptuous is the "people of faith" label anyway? Whose faith exactly? Your faith? My faith? The guy who wears his faith on the sleeve of his America-Is-The-Great-Satan T-shirt?

Salazar has seen the presumption up close. He's seen it in full-page ads. He is a devout Catholic, who will tell you he reads the Bible daily and that Focus on the Family has no monopoly on belief.

He says it slowly, measuring each word. It's the punch that surprises you.

"I was attacked," Salazar said after landing at DIA Friday afternoon. "They took out full-page ads against me. They were on the radio. I don't think it's right when they question my faith or the faith of my colleagues because they don't get their way 100 percent of the time - just 96 percent."

The Democrats like to point out that Bush has gotten 96 percent of his judicial appointments confirmed. Republicans like to point out that Salazar had campaigned against filibustering judicial appointees.

It took him a while to admit he'd changed his mind. Now Salazar doesn't seem to mind that anyone has noticed.

We all understand the stakes here. The battle over the judiciary is getting as nasty as it has been since the days of the "Impeach Earl Warren" bumper sticker, which, for you youngsters out there, was in the very early stages of political bumper stickers.

For nastiness, you can always go to Tom DeLay, who never met a judge whose motives he couldn't question. In the wake of the Terri Schiavo case, he would threaten (it always sounds like a threat when DeLay is talking), "The time will come for the men responsible for this to answer for their behavior."

It became easy enough for Salazar to become engaged. The big story, after all, is in the Senate showdown - whether Democrats try a filibuster to block seven extremely conservative Bush judicial nominees and, if they do, whether Republicans counter by voting out the filibuster for judicial nominations.

This is a liberal vs. conservative showdown, which doesn't explain how it becomes a holy war. In my reading of the Bible, filibustering judicial appointments never comes up. I read the Book of Judges twice, just to make sure.

But it is a holy war. Ask the people from the Family Research Council who are making that point in a telecast Sunday - with speakers ranging from James Dobson to Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist - saying those opposing the appointment of certain conservative judges also oppose "people of faith."

For Democrats, as somebody said, the problem isn't lack of faith but a lack of arithmetic. They can't count to 51 votes. Thus the filibuster.

If Republicans take away the filibuster and Democrats shut down the Senate - and that's the threat from each side - no one knows for sure which side the public will take. But Dobson and company are ready to tell us which side God is on.

It's bad enough when Alberto Gonzales is nominated as attorney general, and someone suggests his opponents are anti-Hispanic, as if the real issue might not have been the torture memos.

But when a Focus on the Family spokesman said that opposition to William Pryor, a judge who happens to be Catholic, is anti-Catholic, Salazar took it personally.

He fired off an angry letter to Dobson, in which he included the fact that one of Dobson's board members had called Catholicism "a false church" that "teaches a false gospel."

In interviews, Salazar would accuse Focus on the Family of strong-arming the political process. He warned of a theocracy.

Suddenly, you can't predict what Salazar might do. He has made votes that have angered liberals. He has directly taken on a huge conservative constituency. And even now, Salazar hasn't said how he'll vote if there's a filibuster. For that matter, he hasn't said how he'd vote on any of the controversial judges.

Some have suggested that there's a Democratic strategy at work- that Salazar has the perfect credentials to make this case. But there has to be more than strategy for Salazar. He didn't simply take on those in the religious right. He has done it on their own terms.

"I am very serious about my faith," he said. "I don't think it's right for a powerful evangelical group to point their guns at people of faith."

He said it with both barrels firing.
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