Bush losing support in Heartland: Neb. Sen Hagel bachandedly attacks Bush - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

pan6467 · 08-18-2005, 11:07 AM

This is very interesting. I could see this is Iowa or Kansas but Nebraska?

It truly looks like Sen. hagel is wanting a bigger office and he does a good job of attacking Bush.

Wonder if Bush's GOP hate mongers will go after Hagel the way they went after Voinivich, Dewine and Taft here in Ohio.

I predicted it would only be a matter fo time before the GOP self destructed and fed upon itself. Even the staunchest of supporters are seeing through Bush now.

Quote:

In U.S. heartland, anxiety over Iraq, oil By Alan Elsner
Thu Aug 18,11:16 AM ET

In the solidly Republican state of Nebraska, voters are expressing deep anxiety about rising gasoline prices and the war in Iraq, a possible early warning sign for President George W. Bush in one of his most reliable strongholds.

When Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel traveled around his home state this week, citizens at every stop brought up Iraq policy and the inexorable rise in fuel prices.

"Is there anything the United States can do to get some stability in crude oil prices in the world, because it affects everything we do?" Larry Ahlers, a manager at medical device manufacturer Becton and Dickinson in Broken Bow, asked Hagel in one of dozens of such encounters.

Hagel, a possible Republican presidential candidate in 2008, responded that gasoline prices were likely to stay high for the foreseeable future because of rising world demand and the U.S. failure to develop new energy sources and conserve.

Earlier the same day in Lincoln, an elderly woman asked about Iraq. "Why are we there in the first place?" she asked.

On Tuesday in the central Nebraska town of Lexington, after a meeting with law enforcement officials on drug problems, three sheriffs expressed serious doubts about what the United States was doing in Iraq and whether it could succeed.

Hagel, a Vietnam veteran, acknowledged the U.S. military presence was becoming harder and harder to justify. He believes Iraq faces a serious danger of civil war that would threaten Middle East stability, and said there is little Washington can do to avert this.

"We are seen as occupiers, we are targets. We have got to get out. I don't think we can sustain our current policy, nor do I think we should," he said at one stop.

UNCERTAINTY, NOT PANIC

In an interview, Hagel said uncertainties over Iraq and oil prices fed off and reinforced each other.

"The mood is one of a certain sense of unsteadiness," he said. "I have sensed that since September 11, 2001. Our people have still not found an equilibrium and when you get these shocks, like gasoline at $2.50 a gallon and projecting natural gas costs doubling and tripling from what they paid last year, that further shakes them."

"I don't think there's panic, I don't think there's cynicism. I think there's this steady unsure sense about where is this all leading -- the constant daily reports on Iraq, our people being killed there, the money being spent there," he added.

Nebraska has been a solid Republican state in presidential elections for decades. Republicans dominate state politics and hold most elective offices.

But Hagel said even some who had previously backed Bush strongly on Iraq now felt deep unease.

"The feeling that I get back here, looking in the eyes of real people, where I knew where they were two years ago or a year ago -- they've changed," he said. "These aren't people who ebb and flow on issues. These are rock solid, conservative Republicans who love their country, support the troops and support the president."

Hagel said Bush faced a growing credibility gap. "The expectations that the president and his administration presented to the American people 2 1/2 years ago is not what the reality is today. That's presented the biggest credibility gap problem he's got," he said.

"I hope he has some sense that something's going on out in the country, that there's a lack of confidence that has developed in our position."

Elphaba · 08-18-2005, 12:35 PM

Quote:

I predicted it would only be a matter fo time before the GOP self destructed and fed upon itself. Even the staunchest of supporters are seeing through Bush now.

My cynicism regarding the motives of both parties prevents me from agreeing with this statement. The 2006 midterm elections have everything to do with some Republicans backing away from the war in Iraq and Bush's handling of it. "Enlightened self-interest"
is the name of this game.

cyrnel · 08-18-2005, 12:44 PM

I'm betting he has no chance of being re-elected.

Agreeing with Elphaba.

Does it really hurt the party if people vote less by party lines and more for (or against) leaders?

Are the things he's done, the things he's set in motion, good for his backers? Does it further their causes? Does it make them wealthier?

Are people better or worse for distancing themselves at this point and making him "take all the credit?"

Say you suddenly became a Republican representative. Any office, looking for a healthy future. How would you improve your position?

The dems got on board with GW soon after 9/11 because it was politically smart. They had to distance themselves at some point. This is little different.

Edit: What I hate most about this political whiplash is the effect it has on long-term policy and its execution. Foreign leaders might be prepared, but to the masses we look like the collective idiot. Oh, wait..

-Using pencil for my next protest sign.

maximusveritas · 08-18-2005, 12:47 PM

Yep, Bush is well on his way to lame duck status, so this is going to happen with increasing frequency as Republicans look to protect themselves for 2006 and in some cases improve their standing for a possible 2008 Presidential run.
Hagel has always expressed reservations about the handling of this war. It just looks like he's becoming a bit more bold in his rhetoric as he sees public opinion shift on both the war and the President.

ObieX · 08-18-2005, 04:44 PM

Politicians will say anything to get elected/re-elected. But you really only have to look at the way they really vote to get an idea about what they're all about. Going from a diehard supporter of anything to questioning its ethics or purpose when election time rolls around isn't fishy, it just plain stinks. Hopefully the voters of this state and others will realize that they are just being played.. or if not that their leader was gullable enough to get played himself and should be removed.

pan6467 · 08-19-2005, 01:57 AM

Bush maybe a lame duck but right now at least I would believe his support still carries weight.... esp. in heavy laden GOP states such as Nebraska.

Also, I have a feeling Bush/Cheney and the puppetmasters want to personally hand pick his successor.

So distancing yourself, such as Hagel has been doing, could have serious retributions from the Bushco guys.

ObieX · 08-19-2005, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

Also, I have a feeling Bush/Cheney and the puppetmasters want to personally hand pick his successor.

So distancing yourself, such as Hagel has been doing, could have serious retributions from the Bushco guys.

Thats a good point. This thing could get pretty ugly. Will Republicans want to even continue with what's been happening? Or will they want to scrap this whole M.O. and try for something new or revert to the old.

The line in the sand is starting to appear inside the Republican party. It would be pretty interesting if after all is said and done Neoconservatives become a new party and go one way and Republicans return to what they were and go the other way.

cyrnel · 08-19-2005, 08:39 AM

It seems familiar. Early fighting as alliances are redrawn then a settling into battle. Is this abnormal? Someone has to be first and I know Christmas decorations started appearing this month in our larger stores.

n0nsensical · 08-19-2005, 11:22 PM

These are the same people (the congressmen and the voters both) who supported the war on Iraq but a few years ago and at the same time criticized KERRY for being a flip-flopper. So what does this make them? Suddenly everyone realizes WOW: PEOPLE DIE IN WARS!!!!!!! then it's oh-my-god he-said-she-said this was going to be an EASY WAR let's-get-the-hell-out-of-here. Oh yeah, and lower those damn gas prices so I can waste more of it! Apparently we couldn't be bothered to do any fact checking when we were all lining up like sheep to the slaughter behind the prez, but now we're just outraged!

08-18-2005, 12:44 PM	#3 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	I'm betting he has no chance of being re-elected. Agreeing with Elphaba. Does it really hurt the party if people vote less by party lines and more for (or against) leaders? Are the things he's done, the things he's set in motion, good for his backers? Does it further their causes? Does it make them wealthier? Are people better or worse for distancing themselves at this point and making him "take all the credit?" Say you suddenly became a Republican representative. Any office, looking for a healthy future. How would you improve your position? The dems got on board with GW soon after 9/11 because it was politically smart. They had to distance themselves at some point. This is little different. Edit: What I hate most about this political whiplash is the effect it has on long-term policy and its execution. Foreign leaders might be prepared, but to the masses we look like the collective idiot. Oh, wait.. -Using pencil for my next protest sign. __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195 Last edited by cyrnel; 08-18-2005 at 01:16 PM..

08-18-2005, 04:44 PM	#5 (permalink)
ObieX Pickles Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)	Politicians will say anything to get elected/re-elected. But you really only have to look at the way they really vote to get an idea about what they're all about. Going from a diehard supporter of anything to questioning its ethics or purpose when election time rolls around isn't fishy, it just plain stinks. Hopefully the voters of this state and others will realize that they are just being played.. or if not that their leader was gullable enough to get played himself and should be removed. __________________ We Must Dissent.

08-19-2005, 01:57 AM	#6 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Bush maybe a lame duck but right now at least I would believe his support still carries weight.... esp. in heavy laden GOP states such as Nebraska. Also, I have a feeling Bush/Cheney and the puppetmasters want to personally hand pick his successor. So distancing yourself, such as Hagel has been doing, could have serious retributions from the Bushco guys. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

08-19-2005, 08:39 AM	#8 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	It seems familiar. Early fighting as alliances are redrawn then a settling into battle. Is this abnormal? Someone has to be first and I know Christmas decorations started appearing this month in our larger stores. __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

08-19-2005, 11:22 PM	#9 (permalink)
n0nsensical Junkie Location: San Francisco	These are the same people (the congressmen and the voters both) who supported the war on Iraq but a few years ago and at the same time criticized KERRY for being a flip-flopper. So what does this make them? Suddenly everyone realizes WOW: PEOPLE DIE IN WARS!!!!!!! then it's oh-my-god he-said-she-said this was going to be an EASY WAR let's-get-the-hell-out-of-here. Oh yeah, and lower those damn gas prices so I can waste more of it! Apparently we couldn't be bothered to do any fact checking when we were all lining up like sheep to the slaughter behind the prez, but now we're just outraged! __________________ "Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." --Abraham Lincoln

08-18-2005, 12:47 PM	#4 (permalink)
maximusveritas Winner	Yep, Bush is well on his way to lame duck status, so this is going to happen with increasing frequency as Republicans look to protect themselves for 2006 and in some cases improve their standing for a possible 2008 Presidential run. Hagel has always expressed reservations about the handling of this war. It just looks like he's becoming a bit more bold in his rhetoric as he sees public opinion shift on both the war and the President.