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Old 06-30-2003, 08:28 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Showdown at the Lesbian Corral: Am I or Am I Not a Bigot

I have a problem, and I need a fair assessment from some liberal people, and this seems like the place!

First, the ground rules. Don't try to change my opinion or my thinking, just tell me what you think about a statement. I'm not here for a discussion/debate/argument. I've spent MORE than enough time in the past 7 years thinking about this.

Why does this thread exist? Because my wife's mom is a lesbian, has been for 25 years, and has had the same partner for all those years. When I see them next month, they're going to want some answers to some things I've said....

Ok, so do I discriminate against gays? Here are the stats...

Do I support Gay Marriage: No.

Do I support Marriage-like rights for Gays: Yes. Absolutely. Call it whatever you want, just don't call it marriage. What's my reason? Fugget it. I'm seen the gay marriage threads here, it's been covered. No need for a repeat here.

Tolerating openly gay men: Don't bother me any.

Tolerating flamboyantly gay men: Can't stand em. Girls don't even act like some of the flamers out of there. I don't get that. They're like... Feminine Deluxe Plus Penis.
For that matter, I don't like prissy girls, either.

Tolerating prowling gay guys in the locker room: I want to kick their asses. Be gay if you want, but don't prowl around the showers trying to sneak peaks.

Lesbians: I like all lesbians. Especially lipstick lesbians in porn flicks.

Threesomes: Sure, as long as its MFF. If it's MMF, then they best stay on opposite sides of the girl, and no MM touching. Thanks.

Do I consider it "enlightened" to have had or want same-sex encounters: No, absolutely not. I think that's, well, gay. Gay <> Enlightenment.

Gay Couples Having Children: Sure, why not? Straight couples haven't proven to be a stable unit in America for quite some time, let's see how the gays do. This covers adoption, test-tube fertilization, etc.
For that matter, if any lesbians would like to save some money on fertilization, just email me a pic. Thanks. I'd be happy to help

Do I have any gay friends: At the moment, no. I used to. Matter of fact, I just found out one has died of aids only a few weeks ago. It was a sad day, to be sure.

Anyway, so am I anti-gay or not?

Last edited by juanvaldes; 06-30-2003 at 08:37 PM..
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Old 06-30-2003, 08:32 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I think you are a bit of a homophobe, but not anti gay.

If it is ok for a flaming gay guy to flaunt his homosexuality, then it should be just as ok for you to reinforce your heterosexuality and not appreciate having to deal with flaming gays people.

I like the way it was put on south park: tolerance just means that you have to tolerate people, you don't have to like them.
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Old 06-30-2003, 08:36 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I think maybe you need to think about what behavior you use around people. There's nothing wrong w/ having your opinions, but I think mayhap treating your mother in law with respect is probably a good call. Or not, depending on if you you want strained family gatherings from here on out. I'd go w/ keeping things peaceful, though.

As for if you're anti-gay or not, well... you can answer that much better than any of us.
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Old 06-30-2003, 08:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Hold up. I never said I was disrespectful. I've NEVER said anything to any gay that was outright offensive.

A little background... they recently got married in New Hampshire, or whatever state we have that allows gay marriage. They were upset that neither of their parents cared to attend. I said I understood their fustration, but I understood why their parents didn't go. Then they asked me if I believed gays should marry, and well....

You don't have to like my stances, but damn, at least appreciate my honestly.
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Old 06-30-2003, 08:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Well,

If you want an honest opinion, your post did come across as angry in general and homophobic specifically.

I mean, I'm not gay because guys just don't attract me. But I don't use demeaning terms for them (or anyone else). So the first question in my mind is why you think this is ok.

As to 'flaming' gays, I guess so long as they aren't touching you or coming on to you, I don't know why they are a problem.

I guess in the end, you sound more "anti-people" than anti-gay to me.

Perhaps you could practice tact?
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Old 06-30-2003, 09:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
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You sound a bit more tolerant then the general public. You're not anti-gay, you just want to be left alone and out of the argument. If you've made your position clear, your mother-in-law is out of line if she brings it up.
Sorry to hear about your friend passing on.
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Old 07-01-2003, 05:40 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Perhaps if you approach your mother-in-law as a unique person with feelings and a personality, and not as a lesbian with all of the baggage that entails in your mind, you might be better off.

I know this isn't a perfect analogy, but imagine your m-i-l was hetero and getting married to a real ass, and nobody approved of the marriage but it made her happy. If her parents refused to come because they hated the guy, and you said, well, I can see why you're frustrated, but I can also see why your parents didn't come because, well, Bob's an ass and nobody thinks you should be marrying him....you'd expect that to ruffle a few feathers. Same thing here, only worse, because your/her parent's objections aren't even based on someone's personality but on their very identity. It's hard enough to find love without everyone judging you because you're different from the norm, but to have the people closest to you reject you because of it, that's harsh. You basically told her that you can see why her parents wouldn't want to be at her wedding, to the peson she loves, because of something she can't control. You don't have to approve of gay marriage, but you also don't have to rub salt in the wound.
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Old 07-01-2003, 05:53 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I think you're probably completely in agreement with the vast majority of Americans, despite what the people in newsrooms and faculty lounges try to tell you.
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Old 07-01-2003, 04:54 PM   #9 (permalink)
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HAHAHAHAHAHA!
(sorry.)
That's Vermont with the gay marriage. I'm from NH, and NH is to Vermont like Cops is to Prarie Home Companion. Just that idea made me laugh really hard.
Really though, bigot is probably too strong a word. Maybe whiner. I mean, you don't like really flamey guys? Who gives a crap what you like? People talking during movies makes me want to beat them to death, but nobody asked me.
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Old 07-01-2003, 08:23 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Are you a bigot? No, I don't think so. I think (as mentioned before) that you tend to be more of a homophobe. You support equal rights for gays, which is certainly not bigoted. I can understand that in a MMF threesome you'd want no touching, and I can understand not liking gays prowling locker rooms. You do have a bit of a double standard, not having any problem with any lesbians, but not being able to stand flamboyent men, which leads me to believe that the homophobia diagnosis was correct, and that you aren't a bigot.
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Old 07-02-2003, 08:50 AM   #11 (permalink)
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look, if you have to explain what you said and you said "i can see why they would disapprove", then you need to quantify your statement.

tell them that "you can understand why they would choose not to come because not all of society has come to accept homosexual marriages. while you have no problem with it, not everyone is as open minded about it, and u recognise that fact"

covers your ass, even covers their parents from being bastards by saying they have yet to pull their head out of their ass
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Old 07-02-2003, 03:43 PM   #12 (permalink)
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To be honest, really flamboyant homosexuals can be annoying to anyone. It's a question of character.

On some of the other matters (prowling), I would think you need to examine reality a lil bit.

It's unlikely that you are a bigot, but that is impossible to judge, since it is a question of deed not word.

Also, you may wish to examine the pent up aggression this post seems to contain.
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Old 07-02-2003, 04:42 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Main Entry: big·ot
Pronunciation: 'bi-g&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1661
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
- big·ot·ed /-g&-t&d/ adjective
- big·ot·ed·ly adverb

You decide.
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Old 07-02-2003, 04:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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if u think ur a bigot check this out..............any gay guy that even dares to question my manhood gets his ass beatdown, if ur a rowdy gay guy, then sorry, dont cross my path.

i remember one time in college i was standing in the food line, in front of me was a gay guy, he dormed on my floor and i was the floor pres, but i never liked him....soooo at the end of the line was a basket of bread rolls he grabs one and then another while saying "one bread roll for me, one bread roll for you" proceding to place the second bread roll on my plate. i froze, my friends froze. but i was calm and cool about it and just said " i don't need you to serve me, as a matter of fact, i don't want anyone touching my food" he replies "well sorry mister floor president" WTF! ok ok, i didnt say anything else, all my buddies did it for me "Keep moving fag!" and all this other shit.......i told them to calm down........and of course like any perfect fag he runs away screaming like a bitch.....whatever i didnt think much of it.

that weekend my buddies and 2 girls were hopping from one party to another......on a long street, probably the longest on campus, we encountered HIM(gay guy) and his "buddies" and some pretty fine females.....my buddies saw him first...i told them to chill out i didn't want any trouble that night, i was already buzzed and i wanted to get my party goin all night.....we decided to cross the street for the sake of not starting something (besides some of his gay buddies were very large guys and we were short about 3 guys) as we start crossing the street in a loud GAY voice we hear "That's the motherfucker who got rowdy with me in the lunch line" OMFG that's it! i started walking towards him, he says "What are you going to do? do you want to fight? i'll fuck you up bla bla bla" i stopped right in front of his face and said to him, "i'm trying to have a good time with these girls and my buddies. i'm not looking for any trouble . i don't give a fuck who is with you, if you don't shut the fuck up i'm going to drop you" he looked at me and said "thats what i thought, you're a little bitch" i swear to god, i don't think i gave him a chance to say the word bitch, becuz he was flying into one of his friends and ultimately landing on the floor. here is the twist . His friends held him back and said "you like to talk too much shit, why don't you just drop it?" and then one of the girls that was with him said, " this is why i don't like going out with you, you always start something, why can't you stop it with your super gay pride?" all me and my buddies can do was laugh, we walked away and partied on, you have a lot more fun when u have a little bit of adrenaline running through you.

so if u think ur a bigot, i say that after what i did, and there is more, i still don't think i am. any comments on that?
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Old 07-02-2003, 11:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Redirect

so if u think ur a bigot, i say that after what i did, and there is more, i still don't think i am. any comments on that?

Yes, I think you still have some growing up to do.
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Old 07-03-2003, 06:03 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I think you are being quite honest with yourself and all the people here (and that might leave you vulnerable to flaming and yet you want to consider the issue and not just shove it to some closet in the back of your head. )

Best thing is that you are open about it and you are not a hypocrite. IMO you are not antigay. You have some quite usual phobic/neurotic behaviour patterns against gay men and I would say you are a bit ofa bigor, cos you state clearly you don't want to adopt new ideas even if they'd make your life easier.

I have similiar solution in mind as Lurkette proposed. In your shoes I would stress to these people in question that "you are wonderfull people, I got nothing against you, but I have right to my political ideals anyhow" and if you sort of admit they are emotionally charged ideals and not just rational ones, they might try and understand you too. Hope it goes well and it would be nice to hear how things went.

Redirect:
Well. You are not only a bigot in my eyes but also seem to act like a bully with your friends and while the boy in the cafeteria line was picking up trouble, I wouldn't have gone to so easy provocation, gay or not. *shrug*
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Old 07-03-2003, 09:25 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Redirect: I can see both sides of calling you a bigot, and for those of you who do consider him a bigot, take your own advice and consider the gay person as simply a person and not as a gay person. The guy was someone that Redirect did not like, chose to talk trash to him while redirect and his buddies were quite literally trying to physically avoid making contact with him, and the guy got hit in the face. The best solution? Not really, in my eyes, but the guy's friends weren't men enough to shut him up before someone else did. A solution? Absolutely. Redirect did the right thing in my mind when it came to dealing with the situation in general. He kept his friends out of it in the lunch line, initially attempted to avoid making unnecessary contact with the guy on the street, then ended the ultimate issue rather directly rather than beating around the bush.

It seems to most of you, the word GAY in that story is what makes him a bigot. Which is what plagues this nation I live in. It's not a matter of a man killing a man, it's a matter of a white man killing a black man; it's a matter of a hispanic killing a black man; it's a matter of a heterosexual male assaulting a homosexual male. The problem is not in the fight, but the labels and stigma of each person in that fight. Honestly, take your own advice, and read the story without the word gay in it. Violence is not necessarily the best solution, but Redirect had attempted other measures prior to direct confrontation. The other guy pushed the issue, and got a bloody nose for it. Lesson learned, but surprisingly, no law suit filed for "gay bashing" or "gay beating." Call me jaded, but I think there is plenty of reverse bigotry in this nation, especially with white heterosexual males who happen to voice their opinions equally as loud as other groups voice theirs.
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Old 07-03-2003, 11:18 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I don't think you're ant-gay. It appears you just don't want to be forced into being gay or homo. Perfectly understandable. Many people are that way.
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Old 07-03-2003, 11:53 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by rat
Redirect: I can see both sides of calling you a bigot, and for those of you who do consider him a bigot, take your own advice and consider the gay person as simply a person and not as a gay person.
Atleast I am doing that. And still I wouldn't go to a lame childish provocation like that.

I think person has to be a bigot/homophobic or generally hot tempered to get into a fight later on from the cafeteria incident. Sure his friends did their part, but he's saying "they said out what I was only thinking in my head" and the (gay) person in case was specially annoying personality, sure. But I have never hit a stranger and wouldn't for mere words. And I strongly believe Redirect is either a bigot homophobic person who comes bragging about his heroic deeds or then he hits _everybody_ who gives him a bit of trash talk which is even worse in my eyes than having issues with gays.

What would I have done? Let it slide in the cafeteria. If the same person annoys me repeatedly and I just can't take it anymore, I would go talking, without my or his friends around and frankly make my point that it's annoying me and if he keeps it up, I start replying in same amount. Done that IRL many times and usually it works.
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Old 07-05-2003, 08:56 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by suviko
And I strongly believe Redirect is either a bigot homophobic person who comes bragging about his heroic deeds or then he hits _everybody_ who gives him a bit of trash talk which is even worse in my eyes than having issues with gays.
He does hit everybody! I speak from experience!


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