dod123

First of all, this isn't a "so hypothetically speaking, if this guy, and this girl, who aren't in any way related to me..."

Essentially, I gots drama. Well, drama is relative, but let me get straight to the point.

Background, we're all University Students age 19-21.

Anyway, my gf's roommate is her fairly long time best friend (years) and for the summer i'm rooming with them. To be blunt, my gf is both conservative, and picky (not to overshadow her wonderfulness and good heart). When i say picky i mean, she chooses her friends carefully. Let me assign her roommate a name, errr, since i'm such a big fan of *Nikki* i'll call her roommate Nicole (because they both start with "N" Ha! bet nobody figured that out...).

Anyway, a year ago Nicole and her 2 year bf broke up.
6 months ago Nicole started seeing a guy (we'll call him Bob because it's such an easy name to type). Long story short, he's a nice enough guy and all, but he's causing all kinds of stress on my gf (and consequently myself). Perhaps for just any girl, Bob would be an adequate bf, but he's... not a GREAT bf.

*sigh* this is going to be too long a post, let me cut to the chase. All the background could take years. Essentially, my gf doesn't think he's good enough for Nicole, and frankly, neither do I. It's not so much he's bad, but... he's not a good bf. He might make a decent friend, but just not a good bf. He's not considerate enough, and, well, let's just face it, he's hella cheap. Neither are particularly well off, both being college students, but Nicole pays her own way with financial aid and i assume his parents pay his way. Still, she's taken out loans to pay for some of her tuition and essentially she's in debt. Yet, whenever they go somewhere, do something, SHE pays. Let me repeat. He almost NEVER pays for ANYTHING they do. Now, they never really 'go out', but if they go get smoothies or ice cream, she pays.

I hate to say it, but this matters. Besides, that's not the only thing. Money isn't everything. He's not real big on sharing in general. But all in all, he doesn't treat her like a gf. The thing is, this wouldn't bother me much, EXCEPT that, i/we (gf and i or me, or whatever) feel in a way he takes advantage of her. For months now (I would have stopped it long ago, but certain dramatic events tempered my bring down the hand of fire on him) he almost lives here in the apartment even though his parents house is 5 minutes away. In addition, she IS vulnerable because she has fairly low confidence, not to mention her last bf was NOT that wonderful either and it was a tulmultuous (sp?) breakup.

There's more, but it would take too long to explain everything, or attempt to anyway. I'm not usually one to ask for advice (historically i listen better than i talk), but I'm almost at my wits end. My gf is a wonderful person, and we have a very close relationship, but when Bob pisses her off (by being in general stingy and inconsiderate and doing thing 'behind closed doors' [defined as we don't know because it IS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS]). I don't mind shouldering her concerns, but it is getting tedious and it is wearing on MY gf and relationship and stressing both of us out.

I've talked to her several times, and even attempted to implement a plan on how to attempt to improve him as a bf and them as a relationship, but heck, it's been weeks and it usually only works for a short while. This is by far long enough, so allow me to post this, i'll reply to this post with my ideas so far.

I welcome advice from both sides, although, but i would especially encourage the ladies to respond.

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dod123

To help weed out certain things i've already thought of and/or tried, let me make a few more comments.

1. Though i value all opinions, i'm really not interested in "it's none of my business breaking up other people" etc etc. The story is incomplete, there is more to it, and i feel the need to do something to "butt in" if it must be called that.

2. Though we both would prefer them not to be together, I'm interested in the happiness of my gf first, Nicole second, and me, well, i'm pretty laid back, if they're happy, they won't make me unhappy O.o (i jest, my gf makes me very happy when she's happy)

3. I've had several long talks with Nicole about these issues already; she does try to improve upon them, but inevitably, there's only so much she can do.

4. The real problem here is that she is overly attached to him, and he has no good reason to let her go. This conflicts with the view that we (we being my gf and myself always) find them too attached, and that their relationship is going nowhere and we don't want to see Nicole hurt.

5. I will, and have before, successfully, broken up a couple I get fed up with (both of whom were and still are my friends) with EXTREME caution, attention to detail, and getting the story directly from both sides (essentially she wanted him, and he didn't want her, but didn't feel like breaking up with her, and she got dragged along for the ride for a few more months before i had no more ideas and told her the truth, and they talked and broke up)

6. If my gf and Nicole weren't roommates then it again wouldn't be a problem, but since Bob is staying at THEIR apartment (for the summer, our apartment, since i am paying rent) it becomes our problem.

7. I'm not looking for an all powerful solution, mainly just opinions, if you guys have the time and patience to give it.

8. I'm sure i can list another 100 things to put here, but i'll wait and see if anyone responds anytime and then post accordingly because i think i might be overstepping the bounds of the forum here, , i'd hate for someone to think i'm turning TFP into a dating advice column.

P.S. I am new to the forums, please PM me if there's any general advice about my post you want to give me, thanks.

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phredgreen

*thread moved to tilted sexuality*

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Subform

Phew, it sure sounds complicated, and when first reading it it seemed to me that the only one who could help you was Ricki Lake or Jenny Jones.

But as dod123 writes, it seems like nikki is very attached to bob. And you can't really do anything untill he really blows it.
So basicly, all you can do is hope he does it. (or make him do it ? <grins> )

About the apartment, you will have to get the guy to pay for living there. I would find it very unfair if i payed for a place where some stranger was going to live ..

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lurkette

Forgive me for being a bit rude, but who do you think you are deciding who Nicole should and should not be going out with just because you don't like who she chooses? She's an adult and entitled to make her own decisions. If her boyfriend is annoying you/your girlfriend, then don't hang out with them. She'll either get the hint or not. You can feel free to voice your opinion ("I don't think he treats you very well, and I'm concerned about you being taken advantage of") but otherwise back the fuck off and let her make her own mistakes. And if your girlfriend is unhappy let her grow a backbone and say something about it to Nicole. If the situation doesn't change and is unliveable, she can move out (or ask Nicole to do so). Since you pay the rent, you can say who lives there and who doesn't, or ask Bob to start paying rent. YOu can control who you hang out with and who lives where, but beyond that I think you're outta line. Basically, let everybody take responsibility for their own actions and feelings, and you quit trying to run the show.

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Leviathan[NCV]

I have to agree with lurkette on this issue. It is *not* your choice what happens in their lives. They are both of legal age, and its their choice what decisions to make. If you have a problem, be sure to have a nice conversation with Nicole, and leave it at that.

shay

i swear that is almost word-for-WORD the exact situation my roommate and i are in.

and we haven't spoken to each other for 3 weeks now. we've lived together for 2 years, she moves out on thursday, and i doubt i'll ever talk to her again.

i definitely agree that it IS your business - you said there was more to the story. if you and your girlfriend are paying rent at this place, and i assume bob is not, then you totally have a stake in this.

in my situation, my roommate essentially let her boyfriend move in (and the relationship between them was almost EXACTLY how you described the one between nicole and bob), and together they made my life a living hell.

if your girlfriend is unhappy, which you say is your primary concern, you should look first towards a short term fix for her, and worry about nicole and her relationship later, if at all.

as a rent-paying tenant, your lease should say something about a guest policy, or something to the effect - tell nicole that bob is making you and your girlfriend uncomfortable, and that you've all got to work out some way that he spends less time in the apartment.

having him not be there as often should possibly lighten some of the load on you and your girlfriend, since you won't be confronted with it as often, and could also possibly have the added benefit of nicole spending some time away from bob and maybe easing up some of her attachment to him, especially if you and your girlfriend make an effort to involve her in things when he's not around.

i won't get into the specifics of my situation, because it's nasty but the one thing i regret is not speaking up sooner. i let them put me through tons of stress and make me miserable, and it just wasn't fair.

if your girlfriend is that unhappy, you two need to stand up for your rights as equal rent-payers and worry about yourselves, and then worry about the nicole/bob situation later on.

air45

let me be the man who is saying you are superior to care about your friend in this way!

perhaps you should try to make the sexy moves on the bad boyfriend? then he would not have desires to be the boyfriend of your friend and you could spare the suffering of the good friend of yours!

dod123

All good and valid opinions. Thanks for sharing your situation as well shay, and that type of outcome is exactly what i do not want. And no lurkette, i don't think you're rude at all. I expected at least someone to voice that opinion regardless. Air45, if you're implying i should hit on him... you're a d@Mn genius, but... not my style .

OH, and thanks for moving the post phred, i wasn't paying attention to where i was posting it <=== newb

Fortunately enough, my life ISN'T a living hell... yet... but Nicole is so nice, that i'd hate to see it go that way. And to yes, bob does not pay rent...

Actually, i have told Nicole that Bob's being there too much is an issue, but i suppose i'll just have to reiterate it a few more times. The three of us are quite good friends now, and the situtation is better or worse on any given week. Thanks for the responses so far, if i can think of anything valid to add i will, i suppose, i'll just have to keep talking and working on the whole thing slowly.

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Bill O'Rights

*bounces up and down, pointing at lurkette*

Yeah, yeah, what she said!!

Bravo, lurkette. Well said. Very well said.

Oh and air45...you kinda concern me a little there dude.

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It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

dod123

Anyway, i'd like to see if anyone else has anymore experiences that might relate to mine, but an update. My gf is really fed up with the guy, and so she wrote a letter (i have not yet read, don't know if i intend to) to Nicole that i imagine, tells it to her straight. Basically, that she REALLY doesn't like Bob, and doesn't want him to come over anymore, and that it would be much better if we only saw him on a social basis and not as if he lives here too. I'm not sure how well this will go over, and i'm slightly afraid it will turn real ugly real fast. In my experience with girls and their bfs... well, it's never good to say bad things about the bf. They get offended because 1. often they can be defensive and 2. sometimes they take it as a personal insult in their taste in men. On the flip side, who knows... maybe she'll get the point.

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lurkette

I think the letter your girlfriend is sending is totally appropriate (probably better if she says it instead of writes it, but whatever). It's much different and completely within her rights to say that she personally doesn't like Bob and doesn't want him living there (it is her apartment, too), and that's totally different from telling Nicole that she can't/shouldn't date Bob. If it turns ugly, so be it. Good riddance to bad baggage. But I hope she gets the point and that it can be made as respectfully and calmly as possible, and that Nicole takes it like an adult.

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"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

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dod123

Thanks, i hope so too. Actually, i also asked her why a letter, when she first told me. She responded that she doesn't exactly feel comfortbable telling her, and that she often loses track of her thoughts when she's talking. It's not so much that she can't face her, and they'll almost 100% certain talk immediately afterwards, so i'm hoping for the best.

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motdakasha

You mentioned that Bob makes an adequate boyfriend, but based on his actions you've described he sounds like *bad* boyfriend.

The letter she wrote is likely appropriate, even if it voices her disapproval of him as a boyfriend. I think your gf, as a friend of Nicole, has a right to voice disapproval of Bob because she thinks she would be better off and happier without him. One of my concerns with disallowing Bob to come to your apt. so much is that I wonder if Bob will make Nicole go out more, which will probably mean more money leeching from her.

I think the source of the problem is Nicole's attachment to him. She's not going to leave him because she's attached and her attachment is probably what keeps him there in the first place. What about inviting good guys over for a small party at your place (since it sounds like she doesn't go out much). Introduce her to better prospects and maybe she'll come to realize that what she has is not that great. Also, if she does go out (or even if she doesn't) encourage her to go to more social gatherings where she will have better chances of meeting new people.

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brad-va

In general, and not to oversimplify, here is my rule:

Before a breakup, make sure your 100% sure thats what you want. At the same time, once you are 100% sure, don't wait any longer to do the deed.

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dod123

motdakasha that's excellent advice! In fact, it's so excellent, my gf and I were just discussing that earlier today. Great minds think alike! We were discussing why they were actually together, and imho (and she concurs) HE, is comfortable being in the relationship (what's not to like... she's a quality gf, and one that is almost pampering him) and she, on the other hand, is a bit needy and vulnerable in general (confidence here is an issue, but as much as one tries to boost a girls confidence... it takes time?). Anyway, we were discussing widening their scope of friends. It's a wonder that you figured this out without all the facts! Allow me to elaborate.

One reason why Nicole is so vulnerable is because 3 months ago, fairly early in their relationship i suppose, they had a fight. Their relationship had not been going well, and i suppose they just got TOO much of each other. He was here too often in essence. Either way, it happened to be 'that-time-of-month' and she got a bit emotional and said something like "perhaps we should break up then". His response was 'okay'. THE BAD NEWS is that within 24 hours she was calling him up and wanting to get back together... Long story short, this caused a MAJOR falling out of her friends for complicated reasons. They lost a lot of respect for her, and (i thought them a bit over-critical) among many other reasons i suppose that had just been building up about her not paying enough attention to her friends. And then here she is chasing after some 'guy' that she has just begun dating. Anyway, when the smoke and dust settled, nobody was happy with her, including my gf. We took this in stride though, and after talking it out, we decided that we can't change what she has done, and we felt that we should at least support her when her other friends have left her.

A BIG reason i wanted to support her, is that it is too likely that if ALL her friends leave her, she will turn to HIM more and more and well... that's just not good. I gave him a good mano y mano talk and gave him the heads up. I made it clear to him that i have no opinion of him, but that i would look out for Nicole, and made it even more clear that i would not stand for a break-up and get-back-together relationship (which i feared might happen) and made it clear what i expected of him. Either way, Nicole lost 3 or so good friends, and already not being an outgoing girl, she really only has the three of us (Bob, me and my gf) left. Her other two pretty good friends are a good 3 hour drive away.

ANYWAY, thanks for the solid advice, we're putting off the letter for a little while (maybe a few days) see if we come up with anything. Perhaps we can get Nicole to... 'see the light'. If not, hey, more friends = good anyway.

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Contami22

Dont interfere. That is if you value your scrodum

viper11885

wow, that's a long post..

i read the first half of it though , but i'll through in my 2 cents if it's worth anything...

anyways, i really think that you should let the girlfriend figure out things on her own... she's the one that has to learn that the boyfriend isn't worth going out w/...


in a way, i'm kinda in the same boat as you.. my bro is dating a girl. however, my whole family including my parents feel that she doesn't have what it takes to be w/ my bro.... to be honest, she acts like she's a freaking 12 year old, never does anything to help around.. she is 21 and doesn't even have a job... just relies on her parent's credit card and gets everything fromt here... i also believe that the presents that she gives to my bro are from her mom's money .. i find it pretty sad...

but through all this and no matter what i think, i'm gonna keep my mouth shut and let my bro figure things out (hopefully).. there's no reason for me to bitch about her and ruin my friendship w/ my bro... she isn't worth it and never will be.. when my bro finally "see's the light", i think that it'll help him be a better person in the end.. i don't wanna hold his hand and tell him wha'ts good or what's bad for him, he has to figure it out on his own..


sorry for such a long ass post

daoist

You have to let the people you care about fail sometimes. If you intervene and break them up, Nicole will never learn.

You seem like you've got your shit together, but try not to cross the line into the over-controlling boyfriend. It's difficult to keep it in check; I know since my gut tells me to do that sometimes too.

Best bet is to just keep it cool, and limit yourself to the influence you legitimately have (as in, tell Bob to pay rent or live elsewhere).

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rainheart

Man I tell you this bad-boy boyfriend reeks of alpha male. You hearing me man? He didn't let her use breaking up as a weapon.

motdakasha

I really think that sitting out on this is not the best idea. It is oftentimes more helpful than not to be frank and honest with your friends about a situation or behaviours of certain people. This is an oversimplified example, but here goes:
You have bad breath but you don't realize it. Would you rather a) your friends tell you about or b) go on without realizing what's happening.
I don't know about you, but I would much rather have my friend tell me, hey you stink.

My friends all told me they had a bad feeling about my first boyfriend, but I went ahead and ignored their advice. I found out much too late that I was dating my worst nightmare. Now I know who looks out for my best interests and I'm grateful for that.

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dod123

Sorry for the long@$$ post : ). Anyway, so far I think we're sticking to the passive way of trying to broaden our group of social friends. Perhaps if she feels she has more support from more people, she won't 'need' him so much, and she can make a wiser decision (with or without outside influence) on her own (which as you all have pointed out, would be the best outcome). Thanks for all your responses, keep em coming if anyone has more advice/experiences.

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motdakasha

Good plan, dod123.

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=^-^= motdakasha =^-^=
Just Google It.
BA Psychology & Photography
(I'm not going psychoanalyze you nor will I let you cry on my shoulder. Have a nice day.)