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Old 08-23-2003, 09:42 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Why do women think they can hold sex over our heads like they do?

Seriously.

My girlfriend loves sex as much as I do, and (God help me) maybe more... lol... this has nothing to do with her...

BUT... I keep hearing the same thing from many guys I know... girls withholding sex and using it to get things they want. If any guy started holding back the sex, a girl would freak out and dump our ass in 2 seconds, but if a guy scoffs at a girl's withholding sex, he's "an asshole", "a mysoginistic prick", etc.

I'm not talking about "I want to wait" or "i'm not ready yet", I'm talking about you've been doing a girl for a while, and then you can't get any unless you start doing shit for her- like it's a barter system.

Where do you ladies (and ONLY those that DO this) get off being this way?

Your thoughts please.
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Old 08-23-2003, 10:49 AM   #2 (permalink)
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First of all, as much as we might want it to be, sex with a girl at any time is not some god given right.

Second, as you probably know, there is a big difference between men and women. Men almost always have sex on the brain, and most women don't (at least, not to the same extent as guys).

Suppose that a woman wants for something to happen, and she knows that you like sex a lot. She may try to withhold the sex until she gets what she wants. If you give in an give her what she wants, then she will likely do the same thing again. It's called behavioral learning. Simple stuff.
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Old 08-23-2003, 11:17 AM   #3 (permalink)
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A little boy and a little girl are playing in the backyard. They keep running contests between the two of them: running, jumping, etc. The little boy keeps losing and he gts frustrated and says, "Well, at least I have one of these!" as he whips out his penis. The little girl runs into the house crying because she doesn't have one. A few minutes later, the little girl comes back out of the house smiling and looking rather smug. The little boy asks, "What are you so happy about?" The little girl replies, "My Mom told me that with one of these," as she shows off her crotch, "I can get as many of those (pointing at the boy's crotch) as I want."
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Old 08-23-2003, 11:38 AM   #4 (permalink)
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*chuckle* Juan "rations" kisses. he'll pretend to give me one, then plant it on my forehead at the last moment. But, sex rationing. Understand women sometimes feel we have VERY little leverage in a relationship. you're bigger, stronger, and generally have more money. What do we have to "level the playing field"? Well... we control whether or not you get laid. that's about it.

Now, the USE of this power for evil or petty things is strictly against womens guideline 15356.3(b) but... some women are evil and there's not much more to say about that.

So... spoil your women more and you won't have this problem!
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Old 08-23-2003, 02:16 PM   #5 (permalink)
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A friend told me the reason is "they have all the pussies". A little crude, but the fact is for most of us they are the only game in town.
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Old 08-23-2003, 02:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
Here
 
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Why do they do that?


It works every time.
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Old 08-23-2003, 02:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I've never experienced this problem. If a girl/woman told me she was holding back sex b/c she wanted something I would tell her to hit the highway (after I got through laughing hysterically at her). This is immature, manipulative and just plain silly. If she wants something then she should just say it. If you want to do it, then do it. Why does sex get mixed up in this normal relationship type stuff? I wouldn't put up with it. Maybe you don't listen to her or do what she wants unless she sex "no sex unless you..."? If so, the problem is with you. If not, then find a more mature girl. Maybe tell her what I said in this comment - that she needs to communicate her wants separate from the "priviledge" of having sex with her and that you feel that her holding sex like that is immature and manipulative and that you don't want her to do it anymore.
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Old 08-23-2003, 03:57 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by cheerios
*chuckle* Juan "rations" kisses. ... But, sex rationing. Understand women sometimes feel we have VERY little leverage in a relationship. you're bigger, stronger, and generally have more money. What do we have to "level the playing field"? Well... we control whether or not you get laid. that's about it.
Hmmm....

Cheery has a good point... but... men are actually more powerful if they leave the size, physical strength and money off of the table. Men, your greatest strength is control of your own emotions.

I happen to be a woman who makes more money than my husband. He's a teacher, I'm a freelance consultant. Yeah, he's bigger and stronger but not by all that much. I could throw him off of me or knee him to the groin if I wanted to. Yes, I am well aware that most women do not have this kind of financial and physical power.

However, that power doesn't give me control of him. My husband still has more sexual power over me than I do over him. Why? Because of his *emotional* strength. It is a rare treat for me to be able to "get one over" on him. He normally decides when and what is going to happen. I usually have that power *only* when he gives it to me.

Most men don't know how much power they have over women when they *control* their *own* desires. If a man can say "no" to a woman, and stick to it, he have women lining up at his door.

Our society allows women to say "no" to men. However, nothing short of physical force (which is damn difficult) gives us the ability to have sex with *a particular guy* unless he says "yes". If you can develop a sense of disdain and a good poker face, you'll have the upper hand.

Men, you have the absolute right to tease a woman with something *sexual* and then withhold it. *I* will not fault you as long as you only use sexual power in the sexual arena.

In particular, don't withhold your love, affection, money, protection or anything other than sex. For one thing, it won't work as well. For another thing, you'll be an asshole.

A soft kiss, a gentle caress a whispered expression of passion, any of that, if followed by emotional reserve will put you in the driver's seat. If you create a hunger in her, she will be yours. Her only choice is to take what you are willing to give her or go elsewhere.

Trust me on this, it's devistating for a woman to strip for her lover and have him say, "Not now... I'm really not in the mood." or "Wait until halftime."

Work on your emotional strength and control of yourself. Once you have this, and can say "no" to your woman, do it. You may be surprized how difficult it is for her to go elsewhere. An emotionally strong man is a major turn on.

Use your power sparingly. Get what you want and give her what she wants. Keep it in the sexual arena. You are not allowed to use sex to make her do the dishes or quit her job (unless you talk about that kind of thing and she OKs it). You *are* allowed to use your sexual power to make her beg for sex.

Jbrooks544 is clearly a man who has his own emotions in check. Now, if I were his girlfriend, I would want him to toy with me rather than telling me to hit the road. Laughing in my face, especially if it were sincere laughter, would be a crushing blow. Instead of that, a mild chuckle followed by him making a demand of me (i.e. turning the tables) *that* would be quite effective.

The thing is, unlike Jbrooks, I *like* it when this is part of the relationship... as long as it's playful and as long as my needs get met.

Don't get me wrong. My husband doesn't have me under his thumb. His sexual power is just a *little* stronger than mine. I actually do win the game sometimes without him letting me win. If I didn't, I wouldn't be his equal and it wouldn't work.

Cheerios' example of rationing kisses is a good one. I bet her knees get weak when he does it. If my husband did that to me (come to think of it, he does it all the time) anyway, *when* he does it to me, I ask him what he wants and give it to him. Once he gets his, I usually get mine. That keeps me happy.

In other words, learn how to maniuplate your woman *sexually*, not physically, not by undermining her confidence, not by using money or physical power. Make her *want* to get on her knees and service you.

By the way, the fact that I make more money than he does makes things a lot easier for us. It gives me an ego trump card and lets him be stronger. He doesn't have "all the power" and doesn't have to worry that he's taking advantage of me. He knows that I could leave him if I really wanted to and it helps us both remember that all the power games are just play.

Occasionally, just for fun, I'll put him on his back and tell him that if he doesn't give it to me, I'll cut off his allowance. It's a thrill for both of us.
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Old 08-23-2003, 04:44 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by angela146
Cheerios' example of rationing kisses is a good one. I bet her knees get weak when he does it. If my husband did that to me (come to think of it, he does it all the time) anyway, *when* he does it to me, I ask him what he wants and give it to him. Once he gets his, I usually get mine. That keeps me happy.

He knows that I could leave him if I really wanted to and it helps us both remember that all the power games are just play.
smart man
And it's all in good fun, otherwise why are you with the person you are, ya know?
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Old 08-23-2003, 04:51 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by juanvaldes
smart man And it's all in good fun, otherwise why are you with the person you are, ya know?
Yes. If you know you are safe, if there is a lot of trust and *real* equality, you don't have to *assert* your rights all the time.
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Old 08-23-2003, 04:52 PM   #11 (permalink)
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it's all about give and take, boys and girls. I get kisses when I do good things. i got a kiss for that post up there, too, btw
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Old 08-24-2003, 02:57 AM   #12 (permalink)
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You guys are the best! Thanks so much for your insightful commentary, which has brought a sense of realism from girls to an otherwise male rant. I hope you all know I'm ONLY referring to those women cheerios identified- the truly evil- who do this. I know not all women do this. I'm asking those that do to explain why they feel justified in it. A lot of great points for both sides here, it's a victory for civil conversation everywhere!
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Old 08-24-2003, 07:49 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Location: Sweden
I've had this happend to me in two of my *ahem* Many *ahem* relationships with women.
The first time i got pissed and drove off to a buddy and watched a some hockey for the rest of the night. When i came home again she asked me where i had been and i said that if she wouldn't give me any sex i had to get it from somewhere else. Needless to say she got furious, broke up with me and moved back to her mother.
The next day she called, crying her eyes out begging for forgivness giving the I'll never do that to you again routine.
I know it wasn't nice but the instant she tried to use sex as a currency i just flipped.

The second time (with another girl) I simply threw her out at once.
Who want's to have a relationship with a prostitute??

In my eyes sex is not a currency, it is pleasure it is fun and it is something you do for the benefit of both, not for one to give to get something from the other.
Trading with sex is what prostitutes do.
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Old 08-24-2003, 08:08 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Regziever your my hero.
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Old 08-24-2003, 09:36 AM   #15 (permalink)
NotMinus
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I belive this form of manipulation spawns from young females no longer just being taught to be treated as equal, but a new trend teaching young women that men are simply stupid, beer drinking, sports loving guys who can be controller with food and displays of sexuality. I think alot of it has to do with teaching Beauty as power, being able to reject men shows some power over them and alot of people I know my age just accept it, they become nervouse and un-confident around people they are attracted to, I guess its a new mentality thats been taught somewhere along the way growing up. If you analize the vast majority of advertising on TV and in magazines there are many displays of this new thought pattern.
 
Old 08-24-2003, 11:31 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Location: Somewhere near Hubby
Quote:
Originally posted by NotMinus
I belive this form of manipulation spawns from young females no longer just being taught to be treated as equal, but a new trend teaching young women that men are simply stupid, beer drinking, sports loving guys who can be controller with food and displays of sexuality.
The "men are stupid" thing is nothing new. Check the cable channels like TVland... A lot of the old sit. coms. from the 1960's and 1970's show men as grandstanding pompous idiots or belching fools who, in the end, learn how to behave from their more intelligent wives. The Honeymooners, Flintstones, Brady Bunch and a host of others carried that message before I was born.
Quote:
I think alot of it has to do with teaching Beauty as power, being able to reject men shows some power over them and alot of people I know my age just accept it, they become nervouse and un-confident around people they are attracted to, I guess its a new mentality thats been taught somewhere along the way growing up. If you analize the vast majority of advertising on TV and in magazines there are many displays of this new thought pattern.
I agree with you on every aspect except the newness thing. If you have a chance, take a look at the old Popeye cartoons from the 1930's. The way Olive Oil wraps Popeye around her finger is the same thing... And that is from a time when my grandparents were teenagers.

(Sorry to make some of you feel old).
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Old 08-24-2003, 12:38 PM   #17 (permalink)
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i have had only one woman try the "you're not getting sex unless" thing with me. I wasn't married to her, we were just sexual partners at the time. As it turned out she wanted something more from our relationship even though we had agreed on the front end it was just great sex for both of us. Instead of coming out and saying it, she chose to try to force me into it. I was very angry with all this and told her it was over. I then started dating someone else and then she had the nerve to say i was cheating on her.....A real whack job!
From that point on I made sure whomever I was with, we were on the same page emotionally and sexually.
angela146 has the right idea, but this comes with honesty and trust.
my 2 cents
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Old 08-24-2003, 02:37 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Simple answer for a simple question. BECAUSE THEY CAN!
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Old 08-24-2003, 02:40 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Location: San Francisco, CA
They can and do..

Sadly, this is the main source of power for attractive women (many who have no other prospects)..

Sexuality is powerful, I wish it wasn't, but it is. This is just human nature. Women will always have something to offer everyman wants, and it is sad that this something requires no intelligence or skill at all.

I'm not saying there aren't any women who use their brains and work hard to achieve power, but if they are attractive, sadly they will be seen as sex objects, and it IS NOT men's fault.

Just the way the male brain works.
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Old 08-24-2003, 03:51 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Becouse it works! Most men will do about anything to get what they want in bed.
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