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Old 09-19-2003, 08:57 PM   #1 (permalink)
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IS Modern Woman the new Frat-Boy?

It seems that a new chic with many women these days is being blasŤ towards sex. Not everyone does this of course. It just seems that every once and a while, a single woman will say anything and do anything to get into bed with me. BUT only for one night -after that she's gone. Don't get me wrong, I've had plenty of long term relationships (1 yr plus) that asure me... this has nothing to do with being good in bed.


What I'm talking about is lovers who approach you with the expressed intent of having more than one date -They fuck you, and then never call again -or they never call back. Whatever,
the reason -there was an expressed intent of another date -but there is none.

I'M NOT COMPLAINING.

It just seems that some people are finding it too comfortable to be cold to casual lovers. Why not be open about the whole thing to begin with? Why not just approach men witn offers of casual sex?

Just Wondering..

-Eric

Last edited by Astrocloud; 09-20-2003 at 03:52 PM..
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Old 09-19-2003, 10:08 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: IS Modern Woman the new Frat-Boy?

Quote:
Originally posted by Astrocloud
Why not just approach men witn offers of casual sex?
I have. Most times the guys don't think I'm serious...

After ample time to get my damned point across, yes, they finally realize it. But still, I think the reason some women might not just out and say it/ask for it is because you're even more easily labled a "slut" or a "nympho" or something.

Just my observation/experiences so take it with a grain (or two) or salt
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Old 09-19-2003, 10:33 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Re: IS Modern Woman the new Frat-Boy?

Quote:
Originally posted by ktthequeen
I have. Most times the guys don't think I'm serious...

After ample time to get my damned point across, yes, they finally realize it. But still, I think the reason some women might not just out and say it/ask for it is because you're even more easily labled a "slut" or a "nympho" or something.

Just my observation/experiences so take it with a grain (or two) or salt
Let's just say that we do get together (for sake of argument). Wow, okay NOW I'm "in LOVE"... You realize THIS because I call more than two times a week and smile at you every chance I get after our encounter.... How do you let me down?

So far I've gotten the 'I don't recognize you' routine from these ladies...
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Old 09-19-2003, 11:19 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Astrocloud
Why not be open about the whole thing to begin with? Why not just approach men witn offers of casual sex?
Fear of the double standards set for genders in our society. (i.e. slut)
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Old 09-20-2003, 08:15 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Listen to Christina Aquilera's song, ""Can't Hold Us Down." It says it all very well!
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Old 09-20-2003, 09:17 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: IS Modern Woman the new Frat-Boy?

Quote:
Originally posted by Astrocloud
It seems that a new chic with many women these days is being passŤ towards sex.
Man, I HATE being the language police, but I just can't help it this time...

The word you're after there is blasŤ. PassŤ means it's out of fashion, it's "passed". BlasŤ means nonchalant and "it's not a big deal", bordering on apathetic and world-weary.

Also, strictly speaking, both those words are spelled with an acute accent on the e, not a grave accent. Up to the right, not up to the left. I don't know how to type that offhand, and frankly I'm not that anal (I know, I know...)
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Old 09-20-2003, 09:26 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by ratbastid
and frankly I'm not that anal (I know, I know...)
But I am. Blasť.
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Old 09-20-2003, 02:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I have always loved the idea of casual sex. Preferably, when initiating such an encounter, I would like to express the fact that its a one time thing and there is no interest in a subsequent relationship. However, guys just don't seem to get it. They either fall in love with me, or think I'm kidding and don't go through with it in the first place. The sentiment has already been expressed, but yes, in saying "let's go fuck and I don't want to hear from you afterward," any guy will automatically think she's a slut. What BS.
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Old 09-20-2003, 02:46 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by siryn
They either fall in love with me, or think I'm kidding and don't go through with it in the first place.
Or, they think I'm kidding, then fall in love with me. HAHAHAHA Ok, that's not very funny, but I agree with this notion. Sometimes it makes me think men are actually more romantic than women and they're just not willing to admit it.
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Old 09-20-2003, 03:03 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Re: IS Modern Woman the new Frat-Boy?

Quote:
Originally posted by ratbastid
Man, I HATE being the language police, but I just can't help it this time...
Thanks for the input officer... Not only do I use the wrong words but I am often drunk and stoned when I use them... PLEASE DON'T WRITE ME A TICKET.
Oops, I think you just did.


sexymama

I took a look at Christina Aquilera's song lyrics

Perhaps it's this line that you want me to pay attention to:

"If you look back in history
It's a common double standard of society
The guy gets all the glory the more he can score
While the girl can do the same and yet you call her a whore"

You see I have NO PROBLEM with women getting their freak on -and even using me as a sex slave for a night. I don't hold the "double standard" Some of my best friends were admitted sluts.

But there is a double standard when men use women in the same way -men are seen lechers. Only the metaphorical "frat boy" sees a guy as a stud when he lies his way into some poor girl's panties. As the title of the Post suggests... women are acting more and more like this.

For example these cardigans lyrics suggest the reversal of the stereotype:

"I love you tonight
You are my knight
Cure and assure and make me feel alright
Tomorrow you'll find
I'm not around
But don't be uptight
'Cause I loved you last night"
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Old 09-20-2003, 06:02 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Being in college, I actually feel as though I have a bit of authority in the matter...

Astrocloud:
Yes, women are becoming more liberal with sexual relations. I dunno if that makes them "frat-boys," but the general view of sex that women here -- southwestern Virginia -- hold is that they're no different than men, and they should pursue what they want in the same manner; this means that, like us, there is a broad spectrum of attitudes toward relationships.
Are they more frat-boyish? Nah, not really. The distribution is the same for them as it is for us, I'd venture.
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Old 09-21-2003, 11:42 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Because of the progression of society, more and more women are feeling comfortable with expressing what's in all reality been there all along. With many women, as with many men, there is a desire to have pure, simple access to sex. People just like to get off- not everyone wants a relationship every time they orgasm.

Double-standards be damned- if the guy you're talking with is put off by the notion of attachment-free sex, then he is likely not worth having sex with in the first place. That is a closed-minded guy. And to the guys who bitch about this and spout off about disease and stuff- YOU are the reason any diseases spread when YOU (being males) don't wear condoms. If guys in general (those who don't use condoms) used the big head first, disease would not be a problem- and girls, insist that the guy does, no matter how clean he says he is... he says that to every girl, guaranteed.
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Old 09-21-2003, 12:24 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by Astrocloud
I don't hold the "double standard" Some of my best friends were admitted sluts.
While you may not fit the stereotype of men who hold a double standard for sexual encounters, a woman who is concerned about it is likely going to assume you could be "one of them." If all she wants is a one night stand, then she's probably not going to get to know you well enough to know you do not harbor this double standard. I don't know where I'm going with this so I'll stop here.
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Old 09-21-2003, 10:25 PM   #14 (permalink)
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i agree with the plan to just generally be more casual about sex. it's too taboo, and that's part of the reason why teen pregnancy and young STDs are such a problem in this country.

i would love to find more women who are into casual but respectful sex...i mean, we're fulfilling a desire of eachother's, there's gotta be respect...

the question is, How do you find them??
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Old 09-22-2003, 12:10 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by motdakasha
While you may not fit the stereotype of men who hold a double standard for sexual encounters, a woman who is concerned about it is likely going to assume you could be "one of them." If all she wants is a one night stand, then she's probably not going to get to know you well enough to know you do not harbor this double standard. I don't know where I'm going with this so I'll stop here.
Right on as usual, motdakasha - although you personally might not, enough people do for women to feel uncomfortable asking for casual sex.

Although that seems to be changing, if my ultraliberal campus is any indication, which it isn't, which is too bad.

What I DO think helps is online forums where people can discuss their sexuality. A lot of sexual stereotypes about women (ranging from "all women are prudes" {and its corollary, "girls don't masturbate"} to "all women are secretly sluts") are based on not actually talking about what women want with women. Captain Obvious strikes again. But since sex talk is still taboo in our society, not to mention inappropriate or dangerous with platonic friends, people feel safer on online forums to talk about things they wouldn't.

So go DailyJolt and go TFP for making the world a little better.
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Old 09-22-2003, 06:02 AM   #16 (permalink)
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why do ya have to stereotype "Frat-Boys"
geez
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Old 09-22-2003, 10:20 AM   #17 (permalink)
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To avoid such a problem, on nights when I go out and don't have any intent to form any sort of relationship, beyond one night stands, I wear my "I Fuck On The First Date". It's a conversation starter to begin with, and really levels the playing field. Some girls giggle and laugh, and become awful playful, others are disgusted and move on (all fine with me).

If I go on a date with a girl I'm actually interested in, well, they won't ever see or here about said shirt, until we both really get to know each other, and they might happen to come across it digging through my shirt drawer, in which I have an opportunity to explain the above. It sucks one has to use a shirt to avoid miscommunication with sex, but it hasn't let me down yet!

I think the whole double standard thing does apply to why girls act a certain way, but really don't mean however they come off to others, but everyone does this. It's the difficulty found in communicating with each other. I do feel that double standard for the opposite sexes is being broken down in today's culture, but it's still there. Just try not to let the actions of others confuse you.
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Old 09-22-2003, 05:53 PM   #18 (permalink)
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i think the 'modern woman' does this to say "hey, i'm a woman, but i can do this too!" it's a sense of empowerment and feeling in control. it's a response to all those double standards and gender inequality still going on today. but, it's part of the problem... not fixing it. it's still power role relationships.. it's still using sexuality as power. it's still acknowledging the inequality then stooping down to that level. and it's not just about the one-night stands. it's breaking up with their boyfriends, making sure they're the dumper and not the dumpee (being in control), and then shrugging it off like it was nothing.
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Last edited by anti fishstick; 09-22-2003 at 05:56 PM..
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Old 09-22-2003, 07:33 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by analog
Because of the progression of society, more and more women are feeling comfortable with expressing what's in all reality been there all along. With many women, as with many men, there is a desire to have pure, simple access to sex. People just like to get off- not everyone wants a relationship every time they orgasm.
No, that's not really what I'm talking about. I'm talking about using dishonesty as a method of getting in someone's pants. Specifically, using the implied or specified notion that there is a relationship forming. It's been suggested thusfar that women don't want to be seen as sluts. That this fear of being a whore is the reason for the manipulation... My only problem is that I'd take a slut over a manipulative liar any day of the week. I'm willing to bet that a lot of other people would agree.


Quote:
Originally posted by analog

Double-standards be damned- if the guy you're talking with is put off by the notion of attachment-free sex, then he is likely not worth having sex with in the first place. That is a closed-minded guy.
That's not what I'm talking about. Attachment-free sex is fine as long as there is no deception involved.


Quote:
Originally posted by analog

And to the guys who bitch about this and spout off about disease and stuff- YOU are the reason any diseases spread when YOU (being males) don't wear condoms. If guys in general (those who don't use condoms) used the big head first, disease would not be a problem- and girls, insist that the guy does, no matter how clean he says he is... he says that to every girl, guaranteed.
Hmmm. I never mentioned disease as the reason I'm against these 'dates'... but I should add some details about my latest fling with one of these manipulative people.

You see we met on Match-dot-Com. Generally people dating on the internet are looking for long-term relationships unless they specify otherwise. My date claimed to be looking for one of these. We met for drinks and proceded back to her place. She specified at this time that we weren't going to have sex and that I shouldn't expect it. We did make out though and had as much fun with our clothes on as one could.

A couple of days later she calls me up to see if I wanted to come over and hang out. When I got there, we had some discussions about the 'relationship'. She made it seem like we were starting something up. We had a few drinks, some smoke, and ordered a pizza.

We made out on her couch and she was letting me put my hands on her. She told me that the other night when we were kissing that she thought that I'd be good at going down on her. We made out a little more and then asked me to... but giving a provision that she didn't want anything more than that. I complied... Of course I would -it seemed we were starting something up; and I wanted to impress her.


"Yes, indeed" I thought to myself... I am good at oral sex.

So the rest of the story isn't as exciting. Basically I went home... waited a few, called, and never heard from her again. She sent me an email with the typical bullshit about being busy. A week and a half later, when we eventually got back in contact; she told me that she's too busy right now for a serious relationship.

Okay before people start writing back -claiming that I misconstrued the whole event. I called her recently and she admitted to some deception. She saw me on match-dot-com and thought that I would be a good lover. She didn't know how to approach me so she wrote. When we met, she just let me provide the natural sexual initiative. -She didn't have to disagree to anything other than keeping control. If she led me astray, she's sorry but that's the way things go sometimes.

Last edited by Astrocloud; 09-22-2003 at 07:45 PM..
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Old 09-22-2003, 08:20 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by anti fishstick
i think the 'modern woman' does this to say "hey, i'm a woman, but i can do this too!" it's a sense of empowerment and feeling in control. it's a response to all those double standards and gender inequality still going on today. but, it's part of the problem... not fixing it. it's still power role relationships.. it's still using sexuality as power. it's still acknowledging the inequality then stooping down to that level. and it's not just about the one-night stands. it's breaking up with their boyfriends, making sure they're the dumper and not the dumpee (being in control), and then shrugging it off like it was nothing.
I have nothing to say about this other than I am secretly in love with people like you. I guess it's a phenomenon like the male-based phenonom of "groupies". I am one of your kind's male groupies.

I know this sounds completely silly. It's also obviously self deprecating. Yet, this is also somehow amazingly true. I love women who walk all over me and then throw me away. -even though it does nothing to serve me. I mean right now, this whole date thing seems typical.

The whole story above, where I give anything to some random woman on my first or second date... has happened repeatedly to me. (They often don't call me back.) I have many gay friends who have told me that I am a "bottom" in a heterosexual way. (Yeah, I'm hetero not bi.) They also tell me that in gay terms... those women are bitches.

But you know, there is something about them which draws me. I mean, each experience indicates that I know what can happen and I am a willing participant. Just because I'm lied to doesn't mean that I'm completely a dupe.

Perhaps this is a bit too reflective. I'm not sure.
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Old 09-22-2003, 09:27 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Sex is a natural thing and sometimes we just want to have it to satisfy our primal desires. Sometimes we don't want to necessarily be in a relationship to do it in. If you don't lead the other person on and no one is hurt I don't think it's a problem. I think we women are tired of pretending to not need sex and don't care anymore if we are thought of as sluts because of that. The tables are turning and I'm so glad I'm alive to see it finally happening.
 
Old 09-23-2003, 02:11 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Astrocloud
No, that's not really what I'm talking about. I'm talking about using dishonesty as a method of getting in someone's pants.

~~~

...That's not what I'm talking about. Attachment-free sex is fine as long as there is no deception involved.
Uh. Perhaps if you'd made that part of your main point... or even <i>any</i> point... or even mentioned the use of deception in the original post, we'd better understand what you're trying to get at and not answer a question you're not asking.

Quote:
Originally posted by Astrocloud
What I'm talking about is lovers who approach you with the expressed intent of having more than one date -They fuck you, and then never call again -or they never call back. Whatever,
the reason -there was an expressed intent of another date -but there is none.
That's kind of vague, and didn't give me (or apparently most other people) the impression you were talking about deception, or really felt strongly about this. You even (and rather emphatically, might I add) said you weren't complaining. You talked more about the "casual love" and people being comfortable with it. Sorry to misunderstand your intentions.

Last edited by analog; 09-23-2003 at 02:13 AM..
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Old 09-23-2003, 09:04 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by analog
You even (and rather emphatically, might I add) said you weren't complaining.
I'm not complaining because quite honestly (here quote me)


I take what I can get.

I just want more than I have.
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Old 09-25-2003, 02:51 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Location: oregon
Quote:
Originally posted by Astrocloud
I have nothing to say about this other than I am secretly in love with people like you. I guess it's a phenomenon like the male-based phenonom of "groupies". I am one of your kind's male groupies.


eep. how did you know this was about me :-x i was talking in a general sense!

Quote:
I know this sounds completely silly. It's also obviously self deprecating. Yet, this is also somehow amazingly true. I love women who walk all over me and then throw me away. -even though it does nothing to serve me. I mean right now, this whole date thing seems typical.
i can relate with being masochistic. i think it goes both ways. both for the male "groupie" as you say, AND the women who keep them. it's not a healthy exchange. even though i may claim to be empowered and 'in control', chances are, it doesn't quite work that way. emotion still always gets the better of me... so i may 'win', but i LOSE big time.. for i also rob myself of being truly close with someone.
Quote:
The whole story above, where I give anything to some random woman on my first or second date... has happened repeatedly to me. (They often don't call me back.) I have many gay friends who have told me that I am a "bottom" in a heterosexual way. (Yeah, I'm hetero not bi.) They also tell me that in gay terms... those women are bitches.

But you know, there is something about them which draws me. I mean, each experience indicates that I know what can happen and I am a willing participant. Just because I'm lied to doesn't mean that I'm completely a dupe.

Perhaps this is a bit too reflective. I'm not sure.
yes. it is definately a choice you know you're taking. you keep getting yourself into the same situations. it's easy for people to fall into the same patterns. the key is to recognize them (awareness). once you're conscious about it, it becomes an active choice to either stay in it or change accordingly.

im glad i've inspired you to self reflect if at all
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Old 09-25-2003, 08:27 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I've come across a few women like that, and what I normally do is tell them that I had a lot of fun, and give them my number so that they can call me if they're ever in the mood for a second go-around. This allows them to retain the essence of control which they had from the moment they approached me, and also leaves them with an option to exercise that control again at a later date if they so choose.

Don't go falling "in love" with the one-night stands, man! You know from the get-go how things will turn out....don't pretend you don't....so you shouldn't be shocked, hurt, or anything else when the girl goes about her merry way.

Just try to be everything she wants for the night, and leave her an option later.

....and for God's sake: if you see these women around, be casual about it!
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Old 09-25-2003, 10:16 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by anti fishstick


i can relate with being masochistic. i think it goes both ways. both for the male "groupie" as you say, AND the women who keep them. it's not a healthy exchange. even though i may claim to be empowered and 'in control', chances are, it doesn't quite work that way. emotion still always gets the better of me... so i may 'win', but i LOSE big time.. for i also rob myself of being truly close with someone.
Yeah personally I don't understand it either. On one hand, I get sex with multiple partners. But on the other I don't ever get to fully explore that person. I mean -I usually don't get a date past the sex. It's quite a quandry. See the next post... I'll explain just what happens if I don't have sex with these women.

Quote:
Originally posted by anti fishstick

yes. it is definately a choice you know you're taking. you keep getting yourself into the same situations. it's easy for people to fall into the same patterns. the key is to recognize them (awareness). once you're conscious about it, it becomes an active choice to either stay in it or change accordingly.

Sure, admission is the first step to recovery. But I'm really not quite ready to change. If I try to avoid these situations, I don't meet women. Or worse, I meet someone who is not interested in my sexuality. (shudder).

Whatever the case, I become unhappy just spanking it or secretly vying for hot action.

Quote:
Originally posted by anti fishstick

im glad i've inspired you to self reflect if at all
Ahh, you know these things are bound to happen.
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Old 09-25-2003, 10:42 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by wry1
I've come across a few women like that, and what I normally do is tell them that I had a lot of fun, and give them my number so that they can call me if they're ever in the mood for a second go-around. This allows them to retain the essence of control which they had from the moment they approached me, and also leaves them with an option to exercise that control again at a later date if they so choose.

If they so choose, they could go after someone else or nobody else. I'm thinking that modern women's lives are so complicated that they really don't need a man around to coordinate schedules with. I mean we (the men) are really a major pain in the ass to put up with. And I'm not saying that because we are mean or have bad breath or anything. I'm saying that because women can be happy in many ways without a man around. Sometimes they just want us for one thing.



Quote:
Originally posted by wry1


Don't go falling "in love" with the one-night stands, man! You know from the get-go how things will turn out....don't pretend you don't....so you shouldn't be shocked, hurt, or anything else when the girl goes about her merry way.

Just try to be everything she wants for the night, and leave her an option later.

....and for God's sake: if you see these women around, be casual about it!
Thanks for the very good advice but there is just one thing. Most of the time these are NOT one night stands in any traditional sorts of ways. Women today want to have long talks on the phone and in other words: want to sniff me out before any sexual contact occurs. Perhaps they're looking to see if I am married -I'm not sure why they do it.

For the record I've had one night stands in the past. They kinda gross me out a little. In one case, I'm fairly certain that some married woman hooked up with me. I'm also not into the bar scene where this kinda stuff goes on. Yeah, one night stands BLOW.

But you can see that sometimes you can like someone a little -after having a few long conversations with them. Somehow I feel that after these long talks; if a woman just starts blowing me off -that it's a betrayal of our friendship. You know I'm not complaining because I got some much needed sex out of it -but I am a little disappointed.

The other option of course -is to choose not to have sex with them until a later time. This does not work. It's actually the surest way to get blown off. Oh man, I should write details here but I start kicking myself when I consider those amazing women that I turned down sex with -as some sort of 'relationship experiment'.
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