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Old 06-05-2004, 10:26 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Waiting until marriage to the extreme^^

I was talking to one of my friends a few days ago about having a relationship, but never doing anything sexual or even kissing, just cuddling, until marriage. He was saying that in the end it would be so great, that day the two finally got married and kissed for the first time, that it'd be worth not doing it until marriage. The point was that the relationship would be based soley on love for eachother and not physical feelings. I don't really have an opinion yet about that, but has anyone else done this before/know someone that has?
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Old 06-05-2004, 10:42 AM   #2 (permalink)
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and you dont think physical feeleings is part of love? cos i do!
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Old 06-05-2004, 10:56 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Dont turn this into a flame, i stated i dont have an opinion about this, just wanted to know what other people thought about it
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Old 06-05-2004, 11:06 AM   #4 (permalink)
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you alway test drive a car before buying it right?.. same thing goes for relationships in my opinion..
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Old 06-05-2004, 11:18 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I think that when it finally did happen, the two might get so caught up in the physical aspects and sexathons that the emotional bond may quickly deteriorate.
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Old 06-05-2004, 11:18 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by nowthen
and you dont think physical feeleings is part of love? cos i do!
I totally agree. I don't think you've truly experienced all there is to "love" untill you've been held and been intimate wiith eachother.

As for waiting... well that's up to each person. If they aren't totally on the same page, it can be torture. Trust me, I've been there.
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Old 06-05-2004, 11:53 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I can honestly say that I have never known any couple, who at the time of their marriage, had never done anything sexual at the kissing level or beyond. I can't even imagine it.

With that part out of the way, I can also honestly say that I personally am very against the idea of even trying to do this. First, with all due respect, I think your friend is absolutely wrong. The relationship would more than likely be strongly-based on feelings of anticipation and expectation of what sex would be like to the point that true friendship and love would be impossible to found. Opening yourself sexually to someone breaks down barriers that you might not know are even there. Unless you and your friend are discussing a marriage between androgenous eunuchs, I don't think you can erase the sexual desires people would feel just because you don't physically experience them, and you more than likely will just make them worse.
On top of that, I would lend my voice (post?) to those above who talk about that importance of physical compatability with your significant other. That can eventually drag a relationship down, like it or not, if it's not there. At least in my experience.
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Old 06-05-2004, 12:10 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Old 06-05-2004, 12:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
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But on the other side - if you aren't doing anything physical, you are truly getting to know that person. I honestly think that most folks rush into the physicality too soon, sex for sex's sake is fine, but if you want to have a relationship with them, something that you want to last, if you start knocking boots within 3 hours of meeting, are you basing the relationship on sex or on love and respect for one another?
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Old 06-05-2004, 12:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
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This kind of idea goes in conjunction with the philosophical belief that the mind is seperated from the body. I am against the bifurcation of humanity in this manner. It is ok to express thoughts and feelings physically, to not do so is stifling to the spirit of humanness.

There are all sorts of reasons to hold out on doing physical things with other people, but I have trouble with the idea that someone can really parse themselves in this manner and have a full relationship that would result in a blooming marriage. It is possible, I suppose, but that would a testiment to luck more than anything else.
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Old 06-05-2004, 04:07 PM   #11 (permalink)
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idealist extreme. i cant do it. i am tactile, i have a body that was given to me and it communicates a lot- love, hate, etc. i cannot deny that part of myself.
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Old 06-05-2004, 04:17 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by wilbjammin
This kind of idea goes in conjunction with the philosophical belief that the mind is seperated from the body. I am against the bifurcation of humanity in this manner. It is ok to express thoughts and feelings physically, to not do so is stifling to the spirit of humanness.

There are all sorts of reasons to hold out on doing physical things with other people, but I have trouble with the idea that someone can really parse themselves in this manner and have a full relationship that would result in a blooming marriage. It is possible, I suppose, but that would a testiment to luck more than anything else.
Well said.
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Old 06-05-2004, 05:53 PM   #13 (permalink)
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HEY! It wasnt a flame, I was been honest! I really do believe that the physical side of the relationship is very important in forming "love", or a close bond.

I will happily admit that one (of the many) of the reasons I married my wife was because right from day one the sex was mind blowing, really incredible. Its very important to both of us that we can be intimate with each other, and we where very lucky that we clicked right away on that level, as well as on a "best friends" level.

So, from my point of view, marriage without any intimacy beforehand would be a game of russian roulette. Maybe I am highly sexed, but, thats my answer to your question.
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Old 06-05-2004, 06:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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i have to agree on the need for intimacy before marriage for most (but not all!)..

I find it becoming more and more difficult to even think of marrying someone who i don't know how we will feel about one another after having sex.

anymore, i dont think i could do it without having sex beforehand. i used to be of the mind that it depended on who i was with, but now I no longer think I can do it.

i basically believe this is something that is different for everyone. certain people can manage it, while others cannot. I think as time goes by, I am leaning more towards the latter.
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Old 06-05-2004, 07:20 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The sexual aspect of a romantic relationship is very, very important. What concerns me about this is, two people will end up married without any real idea of their sexual compatibility. While they may be able to last a few months or even a few years without anything resembling a sex life, will they really be able to make it in the event that their sexual needs differ radically?

As cliche as it sounds, you really want to do some tire-kicking about this.
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Old 06-05-2004, 07:39 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I couldnt last...thats for damn sure. I feel that being physical with your SO shows how much you each love each other.
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Old 06-05-2004, 08:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
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sure! why not- the point of being with someone is to love them for who they are. physical touch is great, but just imagine what it would feel like if you were with someone for quite a few years- never kissing or making sexual contact- and being truly in love with the person and then you get married and *BAM*! A whole other new experience that is intense- more intense than it would be if you did those things before marriage. And that you feel comfortable knowing that you love them first and foremost for them, without letting physical attraction or appearance affect anything.
I am not saying that I did- I'd consider it if it weren't for the wonderful blessing of a baby boy- and I am not saying it would be easy- but it would be easier (and you could tell) when you are attracted to their simple essence more than anything.
There's a difference between "love" or connection and physical attraction, yet they can both blend together and you may get confused with one another. Focusing on the person for who they are helps you to keep physical feelings from the true feelings of love you have for each other.

Last edited by :::OshnSoul:::; 06-05-2004 at 08:29 PM..
 
Old 06-06-2004, 06:35 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I'm a no-sex-before-marriage guy.... it's tough but I think that it'll be worth it. (Religious reasons) I think that kissing is important though... i'm not that fundamnetal.... But yea, so I suppose I do knowwhere this person is coming from.
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Old 06-06-2004, 07:55 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by R3d
you alway test drive a car before buying it right?.. same thing goes for relationships in my opinion..
i do not like this metaphor with cars apropos to women, as though they are just an object, a product or a commodity. i think this kind of attitude directly leads to relationships being commodities themselves. but on any event, i agree that having sex before marriage is needed simply in knowing how you work together. compatibility also includes sexual compatibility. the best kinds of relationships involve intimacy, commitment AND passion. to lack any of these is to lack a full sense of a relationship. human beings are sexual by nature, and denying this by trying to stay celibate is unhealthy.
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Old 06-06-2004, 09:20 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I know a couple who were both virgins until marraige. They've been unhappily married for 5 years and are now getting a divorce. They were very sexually imcompatible.
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Old 06-06-2004, 10:14 PM   #21 (permalink)
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but has anyone else done this before/know someone that has?
that describes me. Never have, felt compelled to have (just for the sake of it at least), or cuddled with a girlfriend yet and no huge rush to at 27. Still trying to work out some financial burdens before seriously looking at marriage and everything that comes with that.
Both my older sister and younger were sexually pure when they got married at age 29 and 22, and no reason for me to do otherwise.
Quote:
as for waiting... well that's up to each person. If they aren't totally on the same page, it can be torture. Trust me, I've been there.
very true, the woman that I (ideally) marry would 'be on the same page'
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Old 06-06-2004, 10:48 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I have a friend who got married last summer and had never kissed her fiance -- it was just creepy. when she first told me my response was "i don't think that's in the bible!" her arguement was that they feared that kissing would "lead to other sinful things" -- apparently they had no self control. all i could think at the wedding was "there are two people who are going to have really bad sex tonight."
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Old 06-06-2004, 11:03 PM   #23 (permalink)
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her arguement was that they feared that kissing would "lead to other sinful things" -- apparently they had no self control.

reminds of the oldy but goody joke:
Why do baptists never have sex standing up?
It might lead to dancing.
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Old 06-06-2004, 11:49 PM   #24 (permalink)
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But isn't SEXUALITY part of who a person is? I don't understand these people who say that you can get to know someone better if you don't touch them.
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Old 06-07-2004, 05:06 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I understand why some people would want to wait until marriage before doing anything sexual with their partner, and I respect their decision 100%.

However I do have to ask myself this one question though: Is it worth it to "wait" all these years and "save yourself" for this special someone if in the end you end up never getting married?
Also, I would feel cheated if I waited all those years for this "special someone" only to find out that sex with her is very lousy.
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Old 06-07-2004, 05:56 AM   #26 (permalink)
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No physical contact is <I>very</I> extreme. I understand the not wanting to until your wedding night, but not even kissing? That would be one very uncomfortable hotel room that night. I don't get it, as a society we need to get over the "purity" thing on your wedding. It doesn't make you any less of a person if you've fooled around or even had sex. I'm a fairly religious person, but consensual sex between two people that love each other is what it's all about. (Well, even sex between people that don't is pretty darn good too). They need to have some intimacy before hand to see if they are compatible or not.
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Old 06-07-2004, 06:17 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I dont know.. I dont think I could marry someone I havent been physical with. Call me.. new fasioned.. but knowing if you click with someone in bed or if you're completely incompatible is really usefull
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Old 06-07-2004, 07:49 AM   #28 (permalink)
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So, if its so important for two people to be sexually compatible, why is a guy considered an asshole for breaking up with a woman that doesn't want to have sex? If my SO doesn't want to have sex, but i do, say soley for seeing if i'm compatible with her sexually, does that mean that she isnt the right one for me? This is all theoretical btw, just curious
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Old 06-07-2004, 08:21 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I'm a fairly religious person, but consensual sex between two people that love each other is what it's all about.
it is entirely possible to make sex a special thing between someone you love and transcend the physical into something beyond yourselves and spiritual. this is the essence of tantric sex which has been revered in the history of buddhism, hinduism and even some native american cultures.
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Old 06-07-2004, 06:23 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Primal makes a good point, but leaves out some of the psychology and reason behind the issue. Sexual compatibility is vital for a long-term marriage. It's okay to want it 5 times a day or 5 times a year, so long as your partner wants about the same thing at about the same time. It's pretty difficult to ascertain how that's going to work out without some experience to back it all up.
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Old 06-07-2004, 06:48 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Sexual compatibility is vital for a long-term marriage. It's okay to want it 5 times a day or 5 times a year, so long as your partner wants about the same thing at about the same time. It's pretty difficult to ascertain how that's going to work out without some experience to back it all up.
Let's all not forget that good sex doesn't necessarily indicate a good marriage either. Sex can be an indicator to how a relationship is working, particularly when the quality/frequency of sex drastically decreases, but it is not an end-all. However, I think as our society continues to get more saturated with sex in the media that it will be harder to make light of sex. To be honest, I'm a fan and I can't imagine myself believing that sex isn't that important in a relationship <i>now</i>. The value of sex certainly relates directly with who you're with and how you work together. I used to think that sex was essentially meaningless, and it was then. Attitudes can greatly dictate the value and meaning surrounding anything, including sex and anything else.

I think it is harder to maintain a negative value for sex than a positive one because it involves self-negation. Strangely enough, I've met people who thrive on self-negation... certainly, sex and marriage is a complicated issue that, at times, needs to broken down on a case-by-case basis.
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Old 06-07-2004, 07:33 PM   #32 (permalink)
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all i could think at the wedding was "there are two people who are going to have really bad sex tonight."
That's great!

I go to great lengths to stay out of other people's decisions and would hope they stay out of mine. I wouldn't say these things to someone face to face because I'd unduely push them into defense mode or unwittingly convince them I was right, but since we're all participating in a forum, here we go...

What is the deal with holding out on anything before marriage? What's the point? If you're trying to save experiences for certain times in life, then why not stop having ice cream, or not playing golf together? Why does it have to be sex, or kissing, or holding hands, or looking longly at each other?

It sounds like they wanted to impress their parents or their religion (what ever it is) by saying "we'll go to the extreme to make you proud." People don't do this to/for themselves alone. There's some underlying reason why and to experience "the big bang" isn't it...now to find out what it is...

This just seems like another 'sacred cow' arguement to me, meaning its something you can't question or they'll get pissed off and say that its their choice and to leave them alone. I have a hard time respecting people to make illogical arguments based on some emotional or religous foundation. If you can't explain why without saying 'just cuz I feel like it' then it doesn't make sense.

Was that a flame? I'm sorry, I had no idea I was so passionate about this subject.
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Old 06-07-2004, 11:03 PM   #33 (permalink)
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no i think you are on the right track imkeen - this act of holding out actually has very little to do with the relationship - and a lot more to do with religous conditioning.
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Old 06-08-2004, 06:18 AM   #34 (permalink)
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My SO and I have decided not to have sex until we're married. We made this decisions based on multiple reasons (our faith mostly, but also because no form of birth control is 100% effective) and I have no problem sticking to it. To me sex is not only a physical act but the ultimate symbol of my devotion to my wife. I want her to have it and no one else. So why wait if I know she's the one? You never know what might happen, what the future holds. Two months from now we might realize that we're not the right ones for each other, that we're not as compatible as we once thought.

I know it's important to be sexually "compatible" but I see sexual compatibilty as a learning process that requires communication. It's up to us to communicate our feelings to each other to get the most pleasure out of the situation.

I know a lot of people will say I don't know what I'm talking about, and that's cool, but I believe what I believe.
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Old 06-08-2004, 08:19 AM   #35 (permalink)
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MSo why wait if I know she's the one? You never know what might happen, what the future holds. Two months from now we might realize that we're not the right ones for each other, that we're not as compatible as we once thought.
couldn't this also happen post marriage? no commitment comes with a garentee.
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Old 06-08-2004, 08:56 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Love is the greatest thing in all the world to me.

Being able to physically express that love is the best way to truly feel that bond, in my opinion.

Of course, I like sex regardless, it doesn't have to be about love at all.
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Old 06-08-2004, 09:05 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by brianna
couldn't this also happen post marriage? no commitment comes with a garentee.
Well, aside for the simple fact that post marriage you are at least committed to spend the rest of your lives together and pre-marriage you're not, there's also the fact that, especially in cases such as his own from what I can gather, it would take a hell of a lot to break up a marriage. Frankly, people today get divorced far too easily and quickly without trying to work things out (yes, I know, it's a sweeping generalization, too bad) - the point is before he gets married they are not committed to each other for the rest of their life and afterwards they are. When they make that committment they have no intention of ever breaking it or even contemplating it, whereas beforehand the possibility is open, hence why people don't get married right away.

EDIT: apparently I can't spell marriage - made a typo on it 3 times
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Old 06-08-2004, 10:21 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by SecretMethod70
Well, aside for the simple fact that post mariage you are at least committed to spend the rest of your lives together and pre-marriage you're not, there's also the fact that, especially in cases such as his own from what I can gather, it would take a hell of a lot to break up a marriage. Frankly, people today get divorced far too easily and quickly without trying to work things out (yes, I know, it's a sweeping generalization, too bad) - the point is before he gets married they are not committed to each other for the rest of their life and afterwards they are. When they make that committment they have no intention of ever breaking it or even contemplating it, whereas beforehand the possibility is open, hence why people don't get marred right away.
Exactly. My SO and I are not rushing into this. We've been dating 8 months and I'm pretty sure I'm going to wait another 6 months before I consider getting engaged. She's going into vet school and I just started grad school so it would just be easier for us to wait until we're well into our programs. This will give us the time we need to see if we really are supposed to be together forever.
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Old 06-08-2004, 10:44 AM   #39 (permalink)
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My mother always told me 1) Only sleep with someone if you think you'd marry them. 2) Never marry someone before you've slept with them.

I think sexual compatibility is extremely important to a relationship and I followed my mom's advice, however: what if something happens to you or your SO and you can't have sex anymore? Would you leave them because of it? Probably not if you truly love them.

So love can survive without sex, and probably could also survive with incompatible sex if it's strong enough. I guess that's what those virgins are all banking on. But wouldn't it be even more fulfilling if you had strong love AND awesome sex? Why take the chance when you can see from the beginning if it's going to be spectacular?
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Old 06-08-2004, 10:47 PM   #40 (permalink)
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sketchy, but hey if thats you're thing go for it.

Theres enough people in this world to try everything so just don't do it for the wrong reasons life is to short.
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