tomsawyer

I put this topic again. We have discussed a lot before, now let's bring new fresh ideas.
I have been practicing Wing Chun, Karate-do for 14 years. Flexibility, confidence and the ability of staying calm are what I get from martial arts.

oane

How does your sexual behaviour affect your training stamina? Many oriental trainers insist on celibacy, semenal emissiosn being considered waste of energy.

What's your lowdown, opinions etc?

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tomsawyer

Interesting question, man.
Yes, my first master didn't allow me even to have girlfriend. And it was ok 'cause I was too young at that time.
If you don't take martial arts as your life-time purpose, then everything is ok.

oane

So how do you rate yourself? I am interested because you have almost 14 years of experience. I mean, performance wise, where do you stand?

Why are you involved in Martial Arts? You can't possibly be a casual!

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rogue49

I used to teach Chinese Kenpo.
I studied far enough to be a 2nd degree black.

It's been some years, I don't look clean as I did, but I can still do damage.
I practice a touch here & there, but I would like to start working consistently again.
I started when I was 21, now I'm 35.

It would be nice to start again in Kenpo, but Aikido or Kung-Fu would be interesting.

I like Kenpo, because it's a little of everything.
Hard & soft
Hands & Feet
Offensive & Defensive
Street & Technique
Practical & with some styling.

When I taught, I didn't like teaching the men
They wanted to become "Bruce Lee" too fast.
I liked teaching the women and children.
With the children, it taught them disipline
and you had to make a game out of everything to keep their attention.
With the ladies, I liked that it gave them confidence and power,
despite their insecurities or what society taught them.

spectre

I took Tae Kwon Do and Hap Ki Do as a kid. It taught me patience and discipline more then anything. And even now, I'm still very patient. It was a lot of fun too.

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Peetster

My kids are heavily into it. I live vicariously through them. :-)

tsunaminw

ive got a 2nd degree in wing chun and a 2nd degree in daito ryu aikijutsu.
kelly worden out of tacoma is my jkd instructor.
we teach the special forces at ft lewis washington, including kali/silat, wing chun, muay thai and sombo.
i compete out of amc pankration for submission wrestling and muay thai, along with josh barnett, akira shoji, allen goes,bob sapp, ivan saliverry, aaron riley, anthony hamlett etc.
matt hume and maurice smith are the instructors.
my website martialartslink.com will be up soon.

tsunaminw

been training for almost 22 yrs now. see the other post.

its a part of you after about 2-3 i think.

tomsawyer

Hi, oane. Thanks for putting me high. I think it should be what you have got, not how long you have been in. I follow martial arts because at first I liked it, then I loved it, and then it became a part of my life. Even though I am not so good at fighting, which people often think is important, I think I am much improved in the ability of keeping calm, self-confident in most of angered and provoked cases. I learn that the ultimate fight is NO FIGHT at all.

rogue49

Unless I've had intense long late night session,
otherwise no problem.

tomsawyer

Oriental martial arts hold that semen is the essence of man, which can not be wasted.

^LJ

I don't do any martial arts, but I love tricking! It's a lot of fun. I'm talking about:

www.joeeigo.com
www.trickstutorials.com
www.bilang.com
etc

oane

That's good news for jokers like me hah.

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oane

Interesting websites! Thanks for sharing the links.

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^LJ

Yeah tricking is great, I've got about 10 down so far.

tomsawyer

Oh, dude. I just can do some only.

tomsawyer

Which martial arts do you think should be the best for self-defence?

tsunaminw

it would vary depending on your body type and many other things, but ive seen a few excellent arts taught quickly and efficiently and most people can protect themself somewhat after 3-6 months.

1. muay thai
2. wing chun
3. boxing

martial= combat it isnt always about fighting but every good art teaches sparring . if you want point fighting or meditating under a waterfall to gain enlightenment you can always take tae kwon do or play checkers.

semen being a source of qi is strong in most chinese arts, and the idea that you are born with a reservoir of qi , but also can increase the amount thru training (qigong) is standard.

as for no sex while training, unless your going for kundalini or enlightenment, in qigong training most chinese dont even adhere to that theory anymore.

rickson gracie did for 2-3 weeks before a fight, most pro fighters both nhb and boxing dont bother. it doesnt seem to make a difference. depends on you.

bruce lee modified wing chun because he found it ineffective against larger americans, so following the chinese in everything they do will only lead to you getting your ass kicked. most of gung fu is flowery wushu b.s. now.

tomsawyer

Hi, tsunami, I am a wing chun man here. I must agree it is a very good art to be good in fighting, enlightening and relaxing, but we just can not take 3-6 months to be good in Wing Chun. Unlike some other martial arts, one needs time and patience in practicing Wing Chun, and the result would not come up until at least 1 year.
Bruce Lee combined Karate with Wing Chun also. He just tried to find out some effective but quicker and simpler ways to practice martial arts. If you practice Wing Chun well enough, you can stand against much larger opponents.

queedo

I have been studying Shotokan for 12 years and Iaido for 6. I hav learned self disipline, confidence, a larger awareness of my environment, a better ability to read people and situations. I recomend that anybody take martial arts especially children.

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tomsawyer

I am a Shotokan Karateka, too. But only good in Kumite, let's exchange experiences.
For the best self-defence, we should consider also the laws. With a muaythai or karate kick, an elbow or knee, we can send the aggessors to hospital for a long time, but could face some problems. Even a Judo throw could harm a life.
I think Aikido is a good one, Wing Chun too

Neotokyo

I like Wing Chun since it focuses on fighting in real close range.
I took tae kwon do before, but once you get in a kick, the fight closes in.

tomsawyer

yes, Neo. I respect all martial arts, and Taekwondo is very effective, per se. Close-in techniques and hand-and-arm ones account to 75% of Taekwondo. But someone, in trying to put it into a sport, makes it look like a kicking art that is no longer effective.
For close-in, Wing Chun is quite good.

tsunaminw

respecting the arts does mean knowing what is total crap and what is not. tae kwon do has very weak snapping kicks with little power compared to savate or muay thai, and i see it every time someone what a tkd background tries to show me what they know in training.

as far as wing chun, bruce added very little karate, more than anything he used footwork from savate and fencing, alot of kali and silat, some small circle jiujutsu and muay thai.
danny inosanto was his closest training partner and was a huge influence.
i trained under ed hart , jim demile , taky kimura, and still do with jesee glover here in seattle for modified wing chun.
as far as a modified version, you wont be complete but you could defend yourself very well compared to other arts after 3-6 months, as with muay thai and boxing.
im talking strictly fighting arts now, not flowery defense taught as a stepping stone for kids who need basic body mechanics or discipline/better grades.
tkd is weaker than most because it focuses on one range, as does judo for example. covering the 3 ranges is essential to be complete.
classical shotokan using the reverse twist punch is another example, it was originally used to penetrate the breastplate of armor, and is a shorter punch that has a higher risk of injury.
the arts adapted during war times to keep up with the times and current weapons/terrain.
funny how americans or westerners in general try and preserve an art by letting it grow stagnant, never changing the old stale pieces for the sake of being traditional.
if you want to be impractical and pretty, there is a place for it. just dont try and convince anyone that is anything but tae bo.

tomsawyer

That is the reason why I never choose Taekwondo. I have been practicing 3 arts from various countries and happy that I could mix the 3 very well. A traditional Vietnamese art, Shotokan Karate and Wing Chun, all the 3 allow me to defend myself very well at all ranges.
I don't like Wushu, it is nice to see, but I am sure one who practice it can not even touch the opponents.
The fighting branch of Wushu that is call Shanshou is different, quite effective.

Midnight_Son

I’ve spent a great deal of time studying Jeet Kun Do (ya, ya, laugh it up)
I always get the same reaction from peolpe of other styles. But with that said, I’m a much stronger and wiser person because of it.

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Chuckles

Hey, I am really interested in learning some form of martial arts. I have been hearing wonderful things about all of them, but I am in particularly interested in Wing Chun, Muay Thai, and shotokan(sp?). Could somebody tell me what each one specializes in / the differences? Also how long does it take to become able to defend one's self in each one. I also am interested in the whole shin thing w/ Muay THai, somebody said "tempering their shins?" special training or something? Whats the deal? Thanks for the help / awesome info guys :P

Chuckles

tomsawyer

Hi, Chuckles. I am going to tell you what I know, maybe not enough, but I hope it is helpful:
1. So your purpose is self-defense and also keeping good health.

2. Then, how are you? Thin, fat, medium? tall, short, medium? light or heavy? Have you played any sport? how much time a week do you spend on sports? And how much time can you spend on martial art once you begin to practice?

3. Depend on your answers of above-raised questions, you can decide which arts you follow.

For your reference:
1. Wing Chun: it is soft, flexible and slow, requiring a lot of patience. To some extents, it looks like Tai Chi but is very effective in close-in combats once you are good at it. And Wing Chun performance is not so stunning (as flying kicks in Taekwondo, for example). It goes for real effects, not for ineffective beauties. I don't know how about in Europe and America, but in China, Hong Kong and other Asian countries, one should practice patiently and arduously at least 1 year before they are allowed to practice fighting with their club friends. Any type of people can practice Wing Chun.

2. Muay Thai: it is hard and quick, requiring a good form of body. It is very simple, you don't need to learn any forms. Actually, one can practice 3 types of kicking, 2 types of knee-kicking, 3 types of punching, and maybe 3 types of elbowing, to be good enough. If you practice hard, after 3-6 months you can defend yourself against 1-2 guys who have the same measures of body as yours.

3. Shotokan Karate: a very popular branch of Karate. It is hard and has a lot of techniques and forms. In various branches of Karate, Shotokan is better in performing forms. Its combat techniques is not bad, but not as good as others such as Suzucho Karate or Goju Ryu or Okinawa Karate. Still effective, however, if you practice it patiently and long enough. In the same conditions, and you don't focus too much on performing forms (i.e. concentrating more on Kumite - Karate term for fighting), you can get the same result as learning Muay Thai.

About myself, I chose to learn martial arts because:
1. Good health
2. Self-defense
3. Better handling of all social relations and cases.
4. Know more people, establish more relations
5. Learn about a culture.
At the first time I practiced martial arts, I went for reasons 1 &2. The more I practice, the more I learn why I should learn.

Chuckles

wow, thanks for all the great info tomsawyer! As to respond to the questions you asked me,
I am about 6'0, and prolly on the little lower medium weight section. I play waterpolo and I swim on a highly competitive level (highschool, college, competitions etc) and spend about 3 hours a day on them. I also weightlift daily, so have quite a good amount of muscle. I plan on practicing every day.

Would knowing muay thai allow me to defend against attackers that are bigger than me? I am the type of person that isn't really into slow movements such as Tai Chi, and maybe Wing Chun altho u did state it is good for upclose? and would like to have fast, powerful attacks to take down an opponent, that is why I am leaning towards Muay Thai. How intense is this fighting style / does anybody know a place to learn this art around the bay area? And even tho this is a pretty stupid question, would a master Wing Chun or Muay Thai fighter be able to defend themselves better?

And on a fun note, anybody know whats the rarest / hardest type of fighting style to learn? Would be sorta fun to know these facts just for kicks :P

Chuckles

tomsawyer

Hi, I am happy to find myself somewhat helpful.
You are so sportive and a giant to me 'cause I am an Asian guy at 1m65 only. Very good that you plan to practice everyday.
Now, if you want a fast and powerful style, I would suggest Karate, any branches of Karate will do for you. This art is now very popular and I am sure you can easily find a club around your vicinity. If possible, try to find a club with Japanese master.
Now, between Wing Chun and Muay Thai. Let's say two same guys with same time of practicing (everything the same):
- After 6 months: the Muay Thai guy easily wins
- after 1 year: the Muay Thai guy still wins, but not so easily
- after 1year and a half: there would be a draw
- after 2 years: the Wing Chun man wins
after that, in the same conditions of practicing, there is never any chance of the Muay Thai to win the Wing Chun man.
The style of Muay Thai is only good for young guys with good forms of body. The older you are getting, the slower and weaker you are.
It is different in Wing Chun. Your abilities is accummulated little by little but never stop. That is why an old and small man still can defeat a huge aggressor.
And martial arts is the arts where smaller, weaker, and even older ones can defend themselves against bigger, stronger opponents; where a woman can defeat a man. It is it which is meaningful.

tsunaminw

i dont agree with the statements above about muay thai not fairing well against wing chun after 2 years since wing chun is one dimensional for more than 2 years and chi gerk isnt covered until later.
silat or kuntao fair well aginst muay thai but mainly its the body positioning and the angles, not the power or speed.

wing chun guys are usually pretty good and very fast , but they dont train as hard for fights like a thai boxer or american boxer. boxing in either style is superior for conditioning to most styles except maybe wrestling and jiujutsu/judo etc.

traditional wing chun is too static and has no mobility in the footwork, and in spite of trapping which is only a range anyway, the focus on defending against a good boxer is lacking. they seem to assume the straight blast/chun chois will go thru anything.

do both and tell me what fits better , maybe its better for certain body types than others , but looking at both types of gyms id say fighters and athletes take muay thai, and if you arent one, you will be if you stay.
the wing chun guys played alot of d&d and watched bruce lee movies and still need a hero.
unless its modified or non classical, in which case its more jkd than wing chun and those guys are all nuts, all of us.
jkd adds other styles to fill gaps wing chun has like boxing, better footwork, filipino kali, silat, brasillian jiujutsu, etc.
they also still assume for the most part that technique is more important than conditioning, and dont train as intensely .

yea, these are generalities based on my own experience and may not be held by management.

check out fairtex for muay thai in the bay area, ive been there and its nice.

Pheatius

Tae Kwon Do (Mu Duk Kwon) was first style (6 years). I was lucky to have a Korean Master. Then I tried some (Kick)boxing, then Muay Thai. I work out at a studio that is mostly Tae Kwon Do with some boxing hand techniques and a little Muay Thai. After twenty years of martial arts, I must say I have meshed the art and practical aspects to form the style that is unique to me.

I would tend to agree with those that say the best martial art is the one that is best for you.

tsunaminw

thats true, for the most part.
i majored in sports medicine and kinesiology and it becomes very apparent however that the body mechanics of some styles suit certain body types better than others, and some peoples needs are different than others.
traditional tae kwon do is far from adequate for street defense, in comparison to many others due to the way it is trained/taught.
the same is true for many styles like aikido and karate,etc.

1. if you want to be a pro fighter like we train now, you choose one direction. muay thai, greco roman, jkd, bjj, boxing etc.
not only for the mechanics but the conditioning itself

2. if you want basic defense against an untrained assailant, then choose another. krav maga, defendo, combato, judo, etc.


if you want your kids grades to improve, to learn basic movement, to get in shape and have fun, choose another. tae kwon do, shotokan, aikido ( may lead to cravings for tofu and birkenstocks worn with socks) etc.

of course exceptions exist and being trained in the country the style originated in is not the same as a watered down version taught overseas.
no im not putting down any styles themselves so relax, anyone training in them knows the stereotypes and usually agree themself.
if i have a criticsm, its the way a style markets itself to be something it is not. if you are going to train a martial art, your giving your life and security to someone who has an obligation to show you how to best serve your needs and be honest.
if he says traditional tkd with its no face punches, no leg kicks, no groin shots, 2 and 3 step sparring, weak forms , and little sparring(in some styles) is going to save your life in a tight spot thats a dangerous lie.

if they tell you that muay thai or bjj is going to calm you and balance your life making you a gentler person, thats also a lie. just be honest .

i have issues with the koreans also for the way they are scammers from hell and suck you dry for money and give you shit in return here in the states.
my foreman in the company i own is korean and is a good guy, but going to korea a few times, dealing in business with them here and there, and talking to others who have done the same, this is also the rule.
money grubbers that start mcdojos all over strip malls in the valley and have little turds running around acting all that until they get squashed. which is fine, unless your trying to protect your family and get squashed along with them.
exceptions prove the rule tho.

LurkingTyrant

I'm really surprised no one has mentioned Aikido as of yet, that's my martial art of choice. I very much enjoy the idea of participating in a non-violent self-defense art. Aikido all the way.

tomsawyer

I put at the very first place of my opinions that you must see into your own conditions to find which martial arts fits you. Please look through again.
And I also said I didn't know how wing chun is taught at Europe and American. All of my ideas come from what I learnt and saw from Wing Chun in China and Hong Kong, and from Muay Thai in Thailand. What is true is that Wing Chun builds up your Qi, or Ki in Aikido, which Muay Thai does not.

nightmare

nobody has mentioned the wwe here? are you trying to say that its not real?

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tomsawyer

It is so real that it is not an art.

GoldenOuroboros

I've done abit of Judo, 8 months of Aikido and I've just started Kung Fu (Flow Boxing) Tis good fun.

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tsunaminw

internal arts work on building chi for the most part, and the forms of wing chun do a little but not much. your correct about muay thai not building chi tho.
and i didnt misunderstand that everyone has different goals for starting an art.
my point was that calling it a martial art is a lie i,f the martial part is lacking or non existant.
ive trained in thailand, mainland china, korea , japan, indo, and the phillipines as well, for intyernal and external arts, and id also agree that whether europe or america, the arts get watered down unless you have a first rate instructor.
the passion for the arts some people have leads good students to attempt teaching, and they arent always as thorough at that part.