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Old 12-03-2004, 07:20 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Bonds on the juice ... Who knew?

I'll at least give Bonds credit for being more clever in his testimony to the grand jury. While Giambi openly admitted to everything, Bonds busted out with "I took them, but I never knowingly took them."

http://www.ESPN.com
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Old 12-03-2004, 08:19 AM   #2 (permalink)
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everyone had to know. As a pirates fan he was a lot smaller then than he is now. Even though steriods don't effect your swing speed and your hand eye coridination. Cigerates kill millions a year, steriods kill 100s we need to punish the cigirates companies before balco
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Old 12-03-2004, 08:40 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Even though I'm a Barry hater I really don't care. Illegal or not, they were not banned by baseball before this season.
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Old 12-03-2004, 12:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Makes Hank Aaron seem all that more impressive to me.
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Old 12-03-2004, 01:45 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heccubusiv
everyone had to know. As a pirates fan he was a lot smaller then than he is now. Even though steriods don't effect your swing speed and your hand eye coridination. Cigerates kill millions a year, steriods kill 100s we need to punish the cigirates companies before balco
Cigarettes are legal; steroids are not.
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Old 12-03-2004, 03:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Bonds is the only guy who almost doubled his hat size in his late 30's. He has always been a control freak about his body. Would he put stuff and/or swallow stuff he didnt know what it was? f*ing cheater and liar.
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Old 12-03-2004, 04:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
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What? Bonds was on the juice? I can't believe it! What a fucking liar. He is a cheat, and the sad thing is, he would have been a great player without cheating, now his legacy will forever be tainted. God he pisses me off.
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Old 12-03-2004, 04:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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The amazing thing is that Pete Rose is completely banned even from the Hall of Fame for alledgedly gambling, while it's doubtful that Bonds will get any punishment within the same stadium complex as that.

I would compare this very much to the 1919 Black Sox. Trying to use illegal means to force the outcome of a game.

I'm an innocent until proven guilty guy as much as possible, but he just lost his case in my eyes.

Ban him.
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Old 12-03-2004, 04:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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What's next, fixed WWE matches?
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Old 12-03-2004, 07:36 PM   #10 (permalink)
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i think bonds is a idiot and such, but one thing is, if any one of us here took steroids we could still not hit a major league curveball, steroids or not imo he is still an amazing hitter. but i think his records are now tainted. sorry if this does not make sense, as i am drunk.
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Old 12-03-2004, 07:49 PM   #11 (permalink)
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He may have been an amazing hitter without the juice, but now there will always be doubt. If you look at the players now known to be steroid abusers home run historys , you will see a definate pattern of home run increases corresponding to the periods they took steroids.






Like it or not, believe it or not, but they cheated all honest players who didn't cheat to achieve success, and that sucks.
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Old 12-03-2004, 08:21 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Wow, this whole balco scandal is is some real serious stuff. The founder of balco is naming all athletes who used it, Giambi is probably getting droped by yanks, and marion jones will probably loose her medal. i wonder whats gonna happen next.
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Old 12-03-2004, 08:22 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djtestudo
The amazing thing is that Pete Rose is completely banned even from the Hall of Fame for alledgedly gambling, while it's doubtful that Bonds will get any punishment within the same stadium complex as that.

I would compare this very much to the 1919 Black Sox. Trying to use illegal means to force the outcome of a game.

I'm an innocent until proven guilty guy as much as possible, but he just lost his case in my eyes.

Ban him.

During the time that these guys used the juice, it was not illegal according to the rules of baseball. Note: It wouldn't have mattered if it was illegal, it could not be detected by then current methods.


Pete Rose did not 'allegedly' gamble. He did gamble. No doubt about it. It was completely illegal at the time and the penalty was well known. (Lifetime ban from baseball)


MLB and the MLBPA are the ones at fault for not stepping in a long time ago anf making it illegal and making the penalties real. (Suspensions and/or fines). The NFL did and has cut their steroid abuse way, way down. Lots of players have been banned for steriod use in the NFL.



What is a shame is that Barry Bond was already a three time MVP before he used. He, of all people, didn't need it.
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Old 12-03-2004, 08:29 PM   #14 (permalink)
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This is what angers me: Pete Rose banned for life for gambling, Bonds getting a slap on the wrist for taking steroids. Both jeopardize the integrity of the game, yet one is punishe much harder. WTF???
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Old 12-03-2004, 09:20 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutulu
Even though I'm a Barry hater I really don't care. Illegal or not, they were not banned by baseball before this season.
I had made a post debating this, but I just heard that at least one of the substances he was taking was not banned at the time.

Last edited by Cross-Over; 12-03-2004 at 10:36 PM..
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Old 12-03-2004, 11:35 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Banned substance or not, ask yourself this question;

Does he DESERVE the record when and if he passes the GREAT Hank Aaron?

The Babe did it on Dogs and beers and Hank did it on GREATNESS!

Hmmmm....kind of makes you wonder why he didn't beat my ANGELS in 2002..........KHARMA maybe?

IMO I think he should have an * put on any and all records he has tied or beat.

I hope he retires and just goes away because if he goes after Aarons record after this he truly is a SCUMBAG!
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Old 12-04-2004, 11:42 AM   #17 (permalink)
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The truely sad issue is the decline of Giambi's health. He really was a good guy in Oakland. I sincerely hope that he gets better.
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Old 12-04-2004, 11:10 PM   #18 (permalink)
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It doesn't matter.

If you didn't like Barry Bonds before this only confirms the fact that he's a scumbag.

If you do like him you can cling on to the "but they weren't illegal" or my personal favorite "but he didn't know they were steroids" and he still retains the "greatness" that is Barry Bonds now and forever.

I've had a lot of discussions with a lot of baseball fans over the years and I have never run across anyone who was in the middle of the road concerning Barry Bonds. They either thought he could walk on water or he was pity party, shit-talking freak with a ginormous head. I seriously doubt just because we "discovered" he was on steroids it's going to change anyone's opinion of him.

I find it hard to believe that Barry Bonds, who I've heard is fanatical about how he trains and what he uses, would pick up the "cream" and "clear" package and use it without knowing full well what was in them. He's been preaching for years about how hard he works and how careful he is concerning his training. You tell me he's going to take some strange substance with a name he can't seem to remember just because it was given to him by a "friend." Again, I find that a bit hard to believe.

I don't care if they slap an asterisk by his name or not. The fact of the matter is Barry Bonds has no charisma. It doesn't matter if he breaks Aaron's record or not. Who do you think people are going to remember? Just recall if you will the single season home run record of McGuire's that he broke. McGuire was on performance enhancing products when he broke Roger's record and it didn't seem to matter to anybody. Folks just seemed to like Mark better. Fast forward a few years later to when Bonds breaks it. Sure the sports media covered it ad naseum, but my recollection is nobody cared much. People just don't seem to like him.

He may hold the records in the big old book, but in baseball, or rather in how people remember the game and it's players, the records don't seem to matter as much.

I've typed too much already and for those of you who stuck it out, thanks.

For those who can't be bothered to read it all I will sum up my feelings such as they are with...

Boy, am I shocked and/or appalled that Barry Bonds was using steroids. Gawrsh, I had not an inkling and never suspected.
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Last edited by guthmund; 12-04-2004 at 11:17 PM..
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Old 12-05-2004, 04:34 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djtestudo
Cigarettes are legal; steroids are not.

Steriods are a CIII, so they are legal, just not for baseball
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Old 12-05-2004, 07:15 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heccubusiv
everyone had to know. As a pirates fan he was a lot smaller then than he is now. Even though steriods don't effect your swing speed and your hand eye coridination. Cigerates kill millions a year, steriods kill 100s we need to punish the cigirates companies before balco
I don't ever recall EVER seeing anyone I know who is my age suddenly add 20+ lbs of lean muscle mass. To have done this at his advanced baseball age ... it has only inspired suspicion that has now been confirmed. How many others are there? Giambi for sure. What about Sosa? What about the many others (other than the Reds of course -- they're juiced alright but that's on Krispy Kreme friggin donuts).
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Old 12-05-2004, 11:51 PM   #21 (permalink)
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How did this surprise anyone?
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Old 12-06-2004, 06:29 AM   #22 (permalink)
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We should start a list here of pro athletes who were suddenly significantly bigger.

Those above are a good start. You have to throw in Mark McGuire.

In football, David Boston comes to mind. NFL just suspended him for taking.

Thanks for listening.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:09 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I'm so sick of the steroid issue. Sure, Barry is a jackass and he took roids. His defense that he "didn't know" is pure BS. The fact is that they substances were not banned by baseball at the time is all that matters.

I don't favor putting asterisks on the record books or any other bullshit like banning them and such nor do I support retroactive punishments that would punish them for using a substance that wasn't banned at the time.

Bonds and Giambi are not the only guys who used roids or were even involved with BALCO. Benito Sangiago and Bobby Estallela were also included. We don't hear about them because they weren't out there setting records. Steroids have been used in baseball for decades. We can't just punish the recent high profile users. From the '04 season and on all we should do is test well and punish continuing users.

When it comes down to it this is just another era for baseball. We had the deadball era, the juiced ball era and now this is the juiced player era. When people look back at Bonds' 73 HR in '01 and his total career numbers they will have the same 'ya but' reaction when they look at Ed Walsh's 1.82 career ERA (almost 3000 innings) and Dutch Leonard's 0.96 ERA over 224 innings in 1914.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:32 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobaphat
What? Bonds was on the juice? I can't believe it! What a fucking liar. He is a cheat, and the sad thing is, he would have been a great player without cheating, now his legacy will forever be tainted. God he pisses me off.
As opposed to the other 70% of baseball stars that have not been caught yet? lol
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Old 12-06-2004, 04:10 PM   #25 (permalink)
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We watched Bonds go from a lean fast superb athlete to a bulky, melon headed parody. But I guess the roids allow you to extend your career and that means more records will be broken. The roids probably don't help you hit the ball but they allow you to hit it for a few more years than otherwise.
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Old 12-06-2004, 08:58 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Wait...what was the question? Oh yeah ... who knew. I know one befuddled old fool who still doesn't know:

BUD SELIG.
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Old 12-07-2004, 10:48 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flstf
We watched Bonds go from a lean fast superb athlete to a bulky, melon headed parody. But I guess the roids allow you to extend your career and that means more records will be broken. The roids probably don't help you hit the ball but they allow you to hit it for a few more years than otherwise.
Not to mention you end up with dozens of homers that might have otherwise been long outs or doubles.
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