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Old 12-16-2004, 03:18 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Auburn and the real BCS problem

There is obviously alot of complaints about the current BCS system. Certain teams feel cheated and in some cases, it is rightfully so. First, I don't consider myself to be biased towards Auburn. In fact, I really despise Auburn football. Nevertheless, I am bothered by what happened to Auburn. It's not even because I think they deserve to be in the national championship. No, what I have a problem with is that Auburn never even stood a chance at playing for the national championship this year. If Auburn humiliated every team they played, I still question if it would have made a difference.

You can try to justify what happened, but you really cannot justify the problem with polling and the ranking system. People keep saying that if Auburn started the season #1, they would still be #1. This is what I find so disappointing. Because people already had an opinion of what they wanted to happen in the season before it even started, one team was not even given an opportunity to state their case even though they did on the field. This year's situation is no different than what we can expect in the future either. Sure, it will be changed again, but it will solve nothing.

I think the failure with polling and the BCS system, then, is that it incorporates a factor that no one wants to see in sports: biased decisions. This year, the system obviously failed because of pre-season polling. People argue that there is many other things that could have been done. However, the reason Oklahoma and USC are 1 and 2 is because they started the season there. Why were they there when the season started?

This is the problem. And every year the BCS seems to incorporate more biased factors. Before people jump and demand playoffs, I really believe you would see similar problems with a playoff system as well. Especially when you have so many 10-1, 9-2, and 8-3 teams.
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Old 12-16-2004, 03:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
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That's why if you have playoffs, you have a special selection committee, like for the basketball tournament. An unbiased group looking at the teams, and picking the best.
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Old 12-16-2004, 08:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The system failed in that there is no way to handle 3 (or more, in this case 5) unbeaten teams on the field. The system was succesful in that according to the guidelines agreed upon by all before the season started, it pairs the #1 and #2 teams. That doesn't make Auburn fans feel any better, but according to the computer polls and the human polls we have a 1 vs 2 matchup. I'd love a playoff but it ain't gonna happen anytime soon.
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Old 12-17-2004, 09:38 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I still think if Auburn beats VT then they will be votet #1 in the AP poll and we'll have a split national championship.
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Old 12-17-2004, 10:07 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Well, stevo22, I'd like to think that's true, but I doubt it. The writers would have to leap Auburn over an unbeaten SC or Oklahoma. While I think Auburn deserves a share, I don't think they'll get it.
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Old 12-17-2004, 11:11 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Auburn would have to win about 42-0, and the USC-OU game would have to be 3-2 with about thirty turnovers for that to happen.
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Old 12-18-2004, 01:49 AM   #7 (permalink)
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The winner of the Orage Bowl will be voted #1 by the ESPN/USA coaches poll. we all know that deal. But the AP can surely vote Auburn #1 if they beat VT. They'll do it to keep a sense of balance, just like they voted USC #1 last year, over LSU, while LSU beat OU and got the coaches vote and the trophy and all USC did was beat michigan, who if they would have won, would not have had a share in the championship.
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Old 12-18-2004, 09:10 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo22
The winner of the Orage Bowl will be voted #1 by the ESPN/USA coaches poll. we all know that deal. But the AP can surely vote Auburn #1 if they beat VT. They'll do it to keep a sense of balance, just like they voted USC #1 last year, over LSU, while LSU beat OU and got the coaches vote and the trophy and all USC did was beat michigan, who if they would have won, would not have had a share in the championship.
Can you give a good reason for Auburn to jump over an unbeatan USC or Oklahoma team that just defeated the other in the "championship" game?
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Old 12-18-2004, 09:52 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo22
The winner of the Orage Bowl will be voted #1 by the ESPN/USA coaches poll. we all know that deal. But the AP can surely vote Auburn #1 if they beat VT. They'll do it to keep a sense of balance, just like they voted USC #1 last year, over LSU, while LSU beat OU and got the coaches vote and the trophy and all USC did was beat michigan, who if they would have won, would not have had a share in the championship.
You're forgetting one key part of last year's situation. USC was ranked #1 in the polls going into the bowls, this year Auburn is #3. It's not going to happen.
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Old 12-19-2004, 03:07 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Auburn (if they beat VT) went undefeated and play in the toughest (I said it) conference in the country. And thats just about all I've got. I really wasn't thinking about that key part, daddy.

I'm thinking OU is going to beat USC, which would go to show that they weren't #1 all season anyway. But what it all comes down to is that the AP voters are going to vote Auburn #1 to balance out the coaches poll...maybe I'm wrong, we'll only know after the games, and if Auburn wins.

(I like the sports forum since at least here we can see who's right and who's wrong, unlike the politics one, where it seems to be one side vs the other with no end in sight.)
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Old 12-19-2004, 09:36 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo22
Auburn (if they beat VT) went undefeated and play in the toughest (I said it) conference in the country. And thats just about all I've got. I really wasn't thinking about that key part, daddy.

I'm thinking OU is going to beat USC, which would go to show that they weren't #1 all season anyway. But what it all comes down to is that the AP voters are going to vote Auburn #1 to balance out the coaches poll...maybe I'm wrong, we'll only know after the games, and if Auburn wins.

(I like the sports forum since at least here we can see who's right and who's wrong, unlike the politics one, where it seems to be one side vs the other with no end in sight.)
I do think if Oklahoma wins, Auburn has a chance to jump. However, it would have to be a dominating performence while Oklahoma wins very sloppily.

Just so you don't think I'm trying to beat down Auburn, I do believe they deserved as much of a chance at a championship as anyone, but the way the system is set up it is impossible.

At least they should have let them play Utah
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Old 12-19-2004, 10:43 AM   #12 (permalink)
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The team that screwed the worst by the bullshitcrapsystem is Cal. They ended up 4th in all the pools but those fucking texans colluded, along with that whiny bastard coach from Texas to put texas in the rose bowl.

those fucking inbreds in the south.

How does a texan introduce his wife to people?

Howdy, this is my wife, who is also my sister and my mumma.
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Old 12-19-2004, 10:46 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobo123
The team that screwed the worst by the bullshitcrapsystem is Cal. They ended up 4th in all the pools but those fucking texans colluded, along with that whiny bastard coach from Texas to put texas in the rose bowl.

those fucking inbreds in the south.

How does a texan introduce his wife to people?

Howdy, this is my wife, who is also my sister and my mumma.
Lets attack every single person that lives in the south because of the actions of a very small group of people, and even though the actions are just a guess by me, because I know nothing of the inner workings of college football.

That will make me look super intelligent and gain me respect everywhere I go.

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Old 12-19-2004, 11:13 AM   #14 (permalink)
 
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yeah, i don't see how beating vt is going to help auburn much unless oklahoma wins in a blooperfest. usc already beat vt (and they beat auburn last year).

edit: and usc was #1 at the beginning of the season because of their performance last season
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Old 12-20-2004, 09:48 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimbletoe
Lets attack every single person that lives in the south because of the actions of a very small group of people, and even though the actions are just a guess by me, because I know nothing of the inner workings of college football.

That will make me look super intelligent and gain me respect everywhere I go.

I'm still wrestling with the image of Carlos Rogers, Cadillac Williams, Ronnie Brown, and Jason Campbell as being inbred. Their real names are all Bubba, by the way, and they all wear overalls and play the banjo.

Mobo, did you happen to learn in high school this year that the South may have changed a little bit in the past 40 years?


On another note, I personally don't want anybody's sympathy vote or consolation championship. And neither does this Auburn team. They're quite satisfied with manhandling everybody they've played so far as reward enough.

It's all still mythical anyway, right?
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Last edited by warrrreagl; 12-20-2004 at 09:51 AM..
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Old 12-20-2004, 09:57 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I'm not really sure what else you can ask for. 2 teams start the season 1/2 and go undefeated. You can't argue with them finishing 1/2. That's how the system should work. However, I agree that the system should be replaced. I don't see why we couldn't take 8 teams and play them off. It would take 7 bowl games. Let the bowls bid for it.
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Old 12-20-2004, 10:30 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warrrreagl
Mobo, did you happen to learn in high school this year that the South may have changed a little bit in the past 40 years?

On another note, I personally don't want anybody's sympathy vote or consolation championship. And neither does this Auburn team. They're quite satisfied with manhandling everybody they've played so far as reward enough.

It's all still mythical anyway, right?


First, it's been awhile since i've been in high school. I've been self employed since 1984.

no, i dont believe the south has changed that much. Still backasswards compared to the rest of civilization.

The standing joke among Cal alums (which includes me, '81 Cal grad), is that the Cal football team traveled 2000 miles across the country and 50 years back in time to play southern miss.

You cant be serious when you say there wasnt collusion between mack whiny brown, his brother and other texas coaches. When Cal beat Stanford, 41-7, Cal lost a ton of points to Texas, when Texas didnt even play.

Cal traveled across the country and BEAT s. miss. and we lost points again by and through the texas coaches.

Why are the texas coaches refusing to reveal how they voted and why?

Why did texas coaches vote texas #2 in all the polls? are you telling me that exas is better and OU or Auburn? it was just a fuckiing scam by inbreds to get their own in. Fuck everybody in texas.
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Old 12-20-2004, 11:42 AM   #18 (permalink)
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With you being a college graduate and self-employed for years, I seriously cannot believe you are saying this. You are going off and shooting off stereotypes at everyone that resides in Texas simply because your football team did not make it to a certain bowl game. What about Texas in the past few years? They have been left out of BCS despite being one of the top teams in the nation. How do you think they feel? And don't say it doesn't matter because they are filthy inbreds.
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Old 12-20-2004, 12:01 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobo123
The team that screwed the worst by the bullshitcrapsystem is Cal. They ended up 4th in all the pools but those fucking texans colluded, along with that whiny bastard coach from Texas to put texas in the rose bowl.

those fucking inbreds in the south.

How does a texan introduce his wife to people?

Howdy, this is my wife, who is also my sister and my mumma.
How does a Cal student introduce his wife?

"Everyone, this is Steve. I met him at a flag-burning."

Boy, these stereotypes are FUN, huh?

You really shouldn't insult people like that; it really doesn't help your point.
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Old 12-20-2004, 01:50 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djtestudo
How does a Cal student introduce his wife?
"Everyone, this is Steve. I met him at a flag-burning."
Boy, these stereotypes are FUN, huh?
You really shouldn't insult people like that; it really doesn't help your point.

What do you have against flag burning? It is possibly the MOST important right we have as Americans. The first amendment protects that act as an exercise of our fundamental right of free speech. Take that away and you will see even more of our rights going down the drain.

But i suppose you guys dont see that. You are so tightly wrapped in 'patriotism' you cant see it.

I live in America. I support our troops. I dont support the government that has already allowed 1300 americans to die and countless thousands injuried. and for what? oil? profit? have any of you seen a profit from ths war?

I read this one line about the assholes in the military command/white house/congress which is so concise and perfect.

THE INCOMPETENT TELLING THE UNWILLING TO DO THE UNNECESSARY.

I think i'll finish my comments with a couple quotes from Mark Twain.

Patriotism is usually the refuge of the scoundrel. He is the man who talks the loudest. - Education and Citizenship speech, 5/14/1908


and last (take time to read it)

A man can be a Christian or a patriot, but he can't legally be a Christian and a patriot--except in the usual way: one of the two with the mouth, the other with the heart. The spirit of Christianity proclaims the brotherhood of the race and the meaning of that strong word has not been left to guesswork, but made tremendously definite- the Christian must forgive his brother man all crimes he can imagine and commit, and all insults he can conceive and utter- forgive these injuries how many times?--seventy times seven--another way of saying there shall be no limit to this forgiveness. That is the spirit and the law of Christianity. Well--Patriotism has its laws. And it also is a perfectly definite one, there are not vaguenesses about it. It commands that the brother over the border shall be sharply watched and brought to book every time he does us a hurt or offends us with an insult. Word it as softly as you please, the spirit of patriotism is the spirit of the dog and wolf. The moment there is a misunderstanding about a boundary line or a hamper of fish or some other squalid matter, see patriotism rise, and hear him split the universe with is war-whoop. The spirit of patriotism being in its nature jealous and selfish, is just in man's line, it comes natural to him- he can live up to all its requirements to the letter; but the spirit of Christianity is not in its entirety possible to him.
The prayers concealed in what I have been saying is, not that patriotism should cease and not that the talk about universal brotherhood should cease, but that the incongruous firm be dissolved and each limb of it be required to transact business by itself, for the future.

- Mark Twain's Notebook
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Old 12-20-2004, 03:48 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobo123
What do you have against flag burning? It is possibly the MOST important right we have as Americans. The first amendment protects that act as an exercise of our fundamental right of free speech. Take that away and you will see even more of our rights going down the drain.

But i suppose you guys dont see that. You are so tightly wrapped in 'patriotism' you cant see it.

I live in America. I support our troops. I dont support the government that has already allowed 1300 americans to die and countless thousands injuried. and for what? oil? profit? have any of you seen a profit from ths war?

I read this one line about the assholes in the military command/white house/congress which is so concise and perfect.

THE INCOMPETENT TELLING THE UNWILLING TO DO THE UNNECESSARY.

I think i'll finish my comments with a couple quotes from Mark Twain.

Patriotism is usually the refuge of the scoundrel. He is the man who talks the loudest. - Education and Citizenship speech, 5/14/1908


and last (take time to read it)

A man can be a Christian or a patriot, but he can't legally be a Christian and a patriot--except in the usual way: one of the two with the mouth, the other with the heart. The spirit of Christianity proclaims the brotherhood of the race and the meaning of that strong word has not been left to guesswork, but made tremendously definite- the Christian must forgive his brother man all crimes he can imagine and commit, and all insults he can conceive and utter- forgive these injuries how many times?--seventy times seven--another way of saying there shall be no limit to this forgiveness. That is the spirit and the law of Christianity. Well--Patriotism has its laws. And it also is a perfectly definite one, there are not vaguenesses about it. It commands that the brother over the border shall be sharply watched and brought to book every time he does us a hurt or offends us with an insult. Word it as softly as you please, the spirit of patriotism is the spirit of the dog and wolf. The moment there is a misunderstanding about a boundary line or a hamper of fish or some other squalid matter, see patriotism rise, and hear him split the universe with is war-whoop. The spirit of patriotism being in its nature jealous and selfish, is just in man's line, it comes natural to him- he can live up to all its requirements to the letter; but the spirit of Christianity is not in its entirety possible to him.
The prayers concealed in what I have been saying is, not that patriotism should cease and not that the talk about universal brotherhood should cease, but that the incongruous firm be dissolved and each limb of it be required to transact business by itself, for the future.

- Mark Twain's Notebook
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/forumdisplay.php?f=38

Now that you had your little rant, can you actually see my point?
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Old 12-21-2004, 06:28 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobo123
The standing joke among Cal alums (which includes me, '81 Cal grad), is that the Cal football team traveled 2000 miles across the country and 50 years back in time to play southern miss.
Gee, and all you really had to do in order to travel back 50 years was drive about an hour to Lodi.
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Old 12-23-2004, 09:53 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by warrrreagl
Gee, and all you really had to do in order to travel back 50 years was drive about an hour to Lodi.


but seriously, Lodi is comparable to Paris, London, New York and LA when it involves a higher degree of sophistication.

Yes, i have been to Lodi. I went to college and law school in the bay area. It's a small farrming town but people still have access, (a couple hours drive to SF and a bit longer to LA.

The other main difference is that Californians are exposed to much more culture and diversity than s. mississipi.
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Old 12-23-2004, 10:47 AM   #24 (permalink)
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thread closed. mobo, you're a damned fool and many of your statements reflect this. you took a thread that started out well enough and completely fucked it up with some inflammatory statements and some really poorly thought-out jokes. if this trend continues, you'll find yourself outside the tfp looking in.
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