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Old 12-17-2004, 10:50 AM   #1 (permalink)
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No Randy Johnson to Yanks thread?

Surprising, though apparently the deal isn't official yet. Looks like the rich will get richer.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1947995
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Old 12-17-2004, 10:55 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Its a rumor so far. If its more complex than the failed ARod deal last year. well I'm not holding my breath.
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Old 12-17-2004, 02:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Randy Johnson on Verge of Joining Yankees

Fri Dec 17, 1:21 PM ET

By BEN WALKER, AP Deputy Sports Editor

NEW YORK - Randy Johnson was on the verge of joining the New York Yankees (news) in a three-team megadeal that also includes Shawn Green and Javier Vazquez, sources told The Associated Press on Thursday night.

Green would go from Los Angeles to Arizona while Vazquez would move from the Yankees to the Dodgers in the trade that would put the Arizona ace in Yankee pinstripes.

"It is going to happen," a source familiar with the negotiations said on the condition of anonymity. Another team source said the principals were in place for the trade to be completed.

Newsday and Fox Sports, which first reported the deal on their Web sites, said the other players were Dodgers pitchers Brad Penny and Yhency Brazoban, and Yankees top prospects Eric Duncan and Dioner Navarro.

There was no confirmation from any of the teams that a deal had been finalized. And one source said it still could fall apart at the last moment because of the number of players and clubs involved.

"We're still in conversations with a lot of different clubs about a lot of different possibilities," Dodgers general manager Paul DePodesta said earlier in the day. "We have talked about some three-way deals and some four-way deals. I don't know if it's going to happen or not."

Yankees owner George Steinbrenner has long coveted Johnson, still one of baseball's most dominating pitchers at 41. New York was not able to pry the Big Unit from the Diamondbacks last summer and called off trade talks with them two weeks ago, saying the price was too high.

But the Yankees and Arizona reopened discussions this week, and the five-time Cy Young winner was now set to move. Johnson has a no-trade clause, but had said he would accept a deal to the Yankees.

New York already has added free agent Carl Pavano to its rotation this offseason, aiming to improve a team that blew a 3-0 lead against Boston in the AL championship series. The Yankees also have reached a deal with Jaret Wright, while the Red Sox have signed David Wells.

Green also has a no-trade clause. The outfielder would go with Penny and Brazoban to Arizona while Navarro, a catcher, and Duncan, a third baseman, would go to the Dodgers.

Johnson had his best years with the Diamondbacks, winning the NL Cy Young Award his first four seasons with them. When Curt Schilling was traded to Arizona from Philadelphia, he and Johnson formed perhaps the most imposing righty-lefty combination the game has known.

Schilling and Johnson were co-MVPs of the 2001 World Series (news - web sites), when Arizona beat the Yankees in seven thrilling games.

Johnson underwent knee surgery during the 2003 season, but came back for what might have been his best year with Arizona in 2004. On a team that lost 111 games, Johnson was second in the majors with a 2.60 ERA. He led the majors in strikeouts (290) for the ninth time and sixth time in the last seven years.

Johnson was 16-14, but 13-2 when the anemic Arizona offense scored more than two runs for him. Along the way, he pitched a perfect game against Atlanta.

Vazquez, 28, was 14-10 with a 4.91 ERA in his first season with the Yankees, and was picked for the AL All-Star team. He was 1-0 with a 9.53 ERA in three games in the postseason, and the Yankees always put a premium on October performances.

Green, 31, has a .282 career average, but dipped to .266 last season with 28 home and 86 RBIs.

Penny, 26, was traded from Florida to the Dodgers last July 30, but saw limited action for Los Angeles because of a problem in his right arm. He was 9-10 with a 3.15 ERA for both clubs.

Penny was selected in the fifth round of Arizona's initial free agent draft in 1996 but never pitched for the Diamondbacks in the majors. He, right-hander Vladimir Nunez and outfielder Abraham Nunez (as a player to be named) were traded to Florida for closer Matt Mantei in July 1999.

Brazoban, 24, made his major league debut this season with Dodgers, going 6-2 with a 2.48 ERA.

Navarro also made his big league debut this year. He was considered, along with Duncan, among the top prospects in the Yankees' system.
I'm not happy with it. Javy Vasquez pitched a lot of batting practice when he needed to be lights-out, (150 K, 33 HR's allowed, 4.91 ERA in 198 IP) but I think he would have settled down given another year. Navarro is, as the story says, the Yankees TOP prospect and the Yankees reluctance to give him up was one of the reasons this deal didn't happen at the trading deadline last season.

Randy should do well in the Bronx but I think long term this is a mistake. We needed him last season, no question. This deal is to show the world that George gets his man when he wants to, even if he doesn't really need him. Plus, from the D-Backs side, they're busy re-assembling an interesting team. The Unit would have made quite the centerpiece for their desert revival.

Unit, Moose, Pavano, Brown, and Wright isn't a bad rotation, but then again Moose, Loaiza, Brown, Vasquez, and Lieber was supposed to be one of the best in the league and none of them had more than 14 wins (if it wasn't for all those comeback wins for the middle relievers and setup men we'd never have won 101 games). We're still looking into Eric Milton and getting rid of Kevin Brown.

I'll take him, but I'm kinda queasy about it. Ask me again at the All-Star break.

-Mikey
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Old 12-17-2004, 04:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Old 12-18-2004, 09:19 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Today's rumor is that the Dodgers won't be keeping Vasquez, but will spin him off to the White Sox for some combination of Paul Konerko, Damaso Marte and John Garland. I'm sure Paul DePodesta has a plan ... I'm just not sure what it is.
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Old 12-18-2004, 09:23 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Old 12-18-2004, 05:14 PM   #7 (permalink)
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These are some of the blackest days for us Dodger fans. I've been a Dodger fan for my entire 46 years. But i'm through with them. Fuck the new owner and his lap dog, depodesta. I'm not going to any more games.

This new ahole owner, the boston parking lot attendant, is a cash-starved, highly leverages ass, who is intent on making the dodgers into a kansas city/oakland a's bullshit team in a #1 market.

He wants to bleed the fans, who piled in at over 3 million last year into dodger staduim.

The dodgers have lost Beltre, a 25 year old, who has been with the dodgers since he was 15. He had a great year last year.

The dodgers let Steve Finley and Jose Lima walk.

They got a 37 year jeff kent for $14M? what the hell for?

They got Valentin for $3M to play 3rd base. This guy, 34 yrs old, has been a journeyman 3rd baseman for his career. batting avg .214

NOw they want to trade away Shawn Green, brazoban, Ishii, Penny for Vasquez who they want to trade to Ch White Sox??????

Then why the hell did they trade away loduca and mota for? what do they have to show for it? Hee sop Choi? This new f*ing owner just wants to dump salaries so he can rake it in for himself.

He bought a $25M home for himself and a $9M home for his wife right next door.

This new asshole owner wants to suck the money out of dodgers and to hell with putting a good product on the field.

To all Dodger Fans: DONT GO TO ANYMORE DODGER GAMES. FUCK 'EM. DONT GIVE THESE AHOLES ANY OF YOUR MONEY. They dont care about you; why should care about them?

Last edited by Mobo123; 12-18-2004 at 05:18 PM..
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Old 12-18-2004, 05:50 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Hey, you could always turn to the Dark Side. You know the Yankees will always be competitive. That's what a COMMITTED TO WINNING owner will do for you. So if you're not from New York, got a relative in New York or the Tri-State area? Everyone does. There's your excuse to switch.

Too bad the Dodgers would be losing one of their few REAL fans.

-Mikey
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Old 12-18-2004, 06:01 PM   #9 (permalink)
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That can be said about 99% of owners though, really. Look at Lindner and the REDS AND INDIANS. In the 90's we in OHIO had 2 great teams that contended every year. We had owners (MARGE and JACOBS) that cared and tried to field winners and in return they had sell out games, decent tv ratings and raised their downtown business brothers after game and pre-game revenues. Now, we have Lindner and Dolan, who squeeze a quarter so tight you hear the fucking eagle scream for mercy. Both are so wanting to prove they are small market and can't compete with big market salary teams that they try to field bad teams. (Sad thing is BOTH teams have proven if they have good players and a CHANCE, the stands will fill.)

A healthy Dunn, Griffey, Casey, Kearns and a decent pen. All Lindner had to do was open his wallet and get a really good SP or 2. Hell The Cards were weakened, the Cubs are weakening themselves, Houston is fastly becoming a non factor Lindner could very easily shell out some bucks put fans in Great America and go to the playoffs easily. Will he? Did He? HELL NO HE TAKES THE FUCKING MONEY CRIES ABOUT JR.'S CONTRACT AND LAUGHS HIS WAY TO THE BANK.

Marge wasn't rich but at least she knew how to field a decent team, spend money and show the fans what they meant. $1 hotdogs. How I fucking miss Marge.

Now, fucking Dolan promised to open his wallet this year because we were ready to contend and he's refused to. We watch Detroit better themselves, the Twins stay the Twins, Chicago's spending some money it looks like and there's Dolan, with pockets out crying how evil life is treating him and how he just cannot afford it anymore.

Well if the fucker can't afford the team and doesn't want to spend the fucking revenue taking the #2 best selling revenue team when he bought it, the #1 consecutive record holding sold out stadium team and turn them into cheap losers then the man has to go. Too bad Dolan, so sad Dolan you aren't your brother Charles and don't own Cablevision, shut the fuck up and sell the damn team if you can't spend money and field a contender.

Out of the 2 Dolan and Lindner.... Lindner pisses me off because he personally has money that could turn the team around and help his investment...... Dolan pisses me off most though because when he bought the Indians he knew he couldn't afford the team and that he was going to run it into the shit hole it was in the 70's and 80's. He can't sell now because he overpaid for the team and it would be probably a 50% loss... but he has to.
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Old 12-18-2004, 08:02 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Well if the fucker can't afford the team and doesn't want to spend the fucking revenue taking the #2 best selling revenue team when he bought it, the #1 consecutive record holding sold out stadium team and turn them into cheap losers then the man has to go.
Amen. Get these fuckers out of the game.


Quote Hey, you could always turn to the Dark Side. You know the Yankees will always be competitive. That's what a COMMITTED TO WINNING owner will do for you. So if you're not from New York, got a relative in New York or the Tri-State area? Everyone does. There's your excuse to switch. == Quote

Naw, i cant be a yankee's fan. Not after the '77 and '78 world series.
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Old 12-18-2004, 09:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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YEAH BUT CINCY KICKED NY'S ASS IN '76 SWEEEEEEEEEEPPPPPPPPPP
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Old 12-18-2004, 11:42 PM   #12 (permalink)
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gonna be an interesting season next year. we (yanks) are going to have to work hard, and god forbid we keep a team together and let them GROW together...

come awn stein - keep some players together!
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Old 12-19-2004, 08:20 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I would have loved to see Navarro come up through our system and play catcher for us, and have Eric play 1st base, those two are special.
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Old 12-19-2004, 10:07 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm not impressed with Navarro. The Yanks have purged their farm system so that nothing of value remains. As a DBack fan I'll post more about this when I have time. I have a lot of thoughts on the trade.
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Old 12-20-2004, 08:49 AM   #15 (permalink)
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*yawn*

One thing I've learned from those damn yankees is that a better team on paper doesn't mean a thing if they don't win on the field. I'll just go ahead and say it now, the Red Sox will repeat in 2005 and Kevin Brown will break both his hands and one of Randy's.
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Old 12-20-2004, 09:39 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I can't decide if this trade is good or bad for the DBacks. It all depends on Brad Penny. If he is healthy then I think this trade heavily favors AZ and NY with LA being their bitches. Although Penny isn't close to RJ, Penny plus Green is better than RJ plus what we would have had in RF. Brazoban could be a great pitcher, maybe even a closer.

NY gets their guy and I'll be shocked if they don't win the WS next year.

LA is just making a salary dump, plain and simple. McCourt is counting pennies. I'm NOT impressed by either prospect they are getting from NY and don't understand why they should be paying any part of Ishii's salary. Vazquez will be a great pitcher in LA but not much better than a healthy Penny. The Dodgers also get Mike Koplove from the DBacks. He's a bullpen workhorse who can fill just about any role there. His only drawback is that he has had health problems the last two seasons. He should be very sucessfull in LA.
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Old 12-21-2004, 05:01 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Thank goodness Depodesta grew a brain. The deal is dead. The Dodgers pulled out of the deal 15 minutes ago.
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Old 12-21-2004, 06:10 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Kudos to Garagiola Jr. because out of the 3 teams (NY, LA and Phoenix) it seemed he was the only one to want to better his team.

RJ was done in the AL, Seattle was close to using him in the 'pen. As a Yankee back in the AL he would falter and have a horrid year. The Yankees, were raping what little they had left of a farm system. Granted now they don't have to worry about it because they can go buy any F/A they want. But, I do believe a day will come when players start to realize how unless you are truly strong in character, you will get sucked into that NY lifestyle and rather sit and get paid than try to work. Happens a lot to the Yankees.

The Yankees won the Championships they did by having players come from their farm system (or trading for excellent prospects) and having a few hired guns. (Soriano, Jeter, Posada, Pettitte, and so on). Basing a team wholly on over paid hired hands will never win you anything because the incentive for them to win is not there.

Example: Who's pushing A-Rod to do better? He has a tremendous contract no other team can afford, there is noone in the Yankees system to challenge him for his position and so what incentive does he have to bust his ass to win? Whereas, someone like Victor Martinez in Cleveland knows he has to bust his ass to be the best so he can make more. If A-Rod truly wanted to bust his ass, have his team win the WS and wasn't about just the money, he never would have signed that contract with Texas.

Another reason I love JR., Granted the 'roids caught up to him, but when he came to Cincy he worked a deal that benefitted Cincy and if Lindner wasn't such a fucking tightwad Cincy could spend money on the player (SP) they need to win.

The problem is 2 fold in baseball: King George way overpays and the other owners are cheap and refuse to spend.

Shawn Green and Penny offered far more return for less money to AZ. Green isn't the Superstar people thought he'd be, but he is a steady player and could truly bust out anytime.

Edited: needed to add more rant...lol
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Last edited by pan6467; 12-21-2004 at 07:34 PM..
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Old 12-21-2004, 06:50 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pan6467
Shawn Green and Penny offered far more return for less money to AZ. Green isn't the Superstar people thought he'd be, but he is a steady player and could truly bust out anytime.

Plus, everybody knows Green is NOT on any steroids. The guy is rail thin.

and yes, i agree. Green is due for a break out season.
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Old 12-22-2004, 01:27 AM   #20 (permalink)
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The deal is dead, Depodesta the dodgers GM got cold feet and just signed JD Drew to a 55 million dollar contract, but what i dont get is why they couldnt get Adrian Beltre and about the same price
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Old 12-22-2004, 09:32 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pan6467
Kudos to Garagiola Jr. because out of the 3 teams (NY, LA and Phoenix) it seemed he was the only one to want to better his team.

Shawn Green and Penny offered far more return for less money to AZ. Green isn't the Superstar people thought he'd be, but he is a steady player and could truly bust out anytime.
Please, please, please, don't ever praise Garagiola Jr. again. The guy is a dimwit with no understanding of baseball statistics. Also, it wasn't him behind the deal, Moorad is running the club now. He's the one behind everything now (even if he hasn't officially been approved by the league, I'm not sure if he has)

I liked the trade as it stood, but there was one thing that bothered me:

Green wanted a 3yr/30M+ extension. That's just too long and too much money for a guy who has declined in OPS. Don't get me wrong, he's a VERY good player and I think his numbers would have exploded hitting at the BOB but a 3 year deal would have ended up blocking Carlos Quentin or Conor Jackson, both of them might be ready this year and definitely ready next year.

Another thing, Green was set to make just as much as RJ and Penny was arbitration eligible. The DBacks were going to RAISE salary by at least 5M if it went through. I'd still like to see Penny here and maybe Green if he could lower his extension to 1 year or MAYBE 2 years.

Randy would have kicked ass in NY.
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Old 12-22-2004, 09:34 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by aswo
The deal is dead, Depodesta the dodgers GM got cold feet and just signed JD Drew to a 55 million dollar contract, but what i dont get is why they couldnt get Adrian Beltre and about the same price
What are the chances that Drew will be healthy enough to play 100+ games next season?
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Old 12-23-2004, 06:17 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pan6467
I do believe a day will come when players start to realize how unless you are truly strong in character, you will get sucked into that NY lifestyle and rather sit and get paid than try to work. Happens a lot to the Yankees.

The Yankees won the Championships they did by having players come from their farm system (or trading for excellent prospects) and having a few hired guns. (Soriano, Jeter, Posada, Pettitte, and so on). Basing a team wholly on over paid hired hands will never win you anything because the incentive for them to win is not there.
I disagree... the years they haven't won the WS they've still won pennants and/or division titles. They're at least competitive. Witness the New York Rangers, who thoroughly suck year in and year out despite massive free agent signings and trades. The thing that keeps this from happening to the Yankees is the pinstripe tradition, Joe Torre, and Derek Jeter. Without Torre and Jeter, I agree, the Yankees would be in danger of this too, though Steinbrenner, unlike the Dolans, would be quicker to get rid of a non-producing superstar than allow him to get fat and lazy on a big contract.

-Mikey
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Old 12-23-2004, 07:23 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I tend to agree Mikey... just a quick correction it's just NO DOUGH Larry Dolan that owns the team, his brother Charles (the one who owns Cablevision and is the super rich one) tried to buy the Red Sox but was outbid by Werner. (Not to mention Steinbrenner and both Dolans hate each other.) I always hoped Charles would get involved and put the money he would have put into the Red Sox into the Indians but.....

Funny thing is when Marge was forced to sell the Reds Larry tried to buy them, but Lindner came in because Cincy truly believed Dolan would move the team.
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Old 12-23-2004, 03:31 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I just want to know how that gm can keep his job, with getting drew for almost the same money as beltre?????? beltre is younger, better, plays a hard position to fill, plays through injury...etc Drew.....well I had my issues with him back when he held out 6 years ago. damn, LA is gonna need some more bats if they want to compete.
I have no idea why arizona would trade randy now (if they do), after there joke signings already you would think they could talk randy into staying, although i think they still have no chance to win anything...but you never know!
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Old 12-27-2004, 08:40 AM   #26 (permalink)
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It's not a matter of AZ wanting RJ out. It's a matter of RJ wanting out and the DBacks trying to accomadate him. Now that this LA deal is dead Moorad should tell the Yanks it's Vazquez, prospects, and $15M if they want him.
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Old 12-27-2004, 11:03 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutulu
It's not a matter of AZ wanting RJ out. It's a matter of RJ wanting out and the DBacks trying to accomadate him. Now that this LA deal is dead Moorad should tell the Yanks it's Vazquez, prospects, and $15M if they want him.
Actually, I think both sides want to move him. The D-Backs just shelled-out a butt load of cash for Glaus and Ortiz and know need to offset those signings with dumping the Unit. If RJ wasn't so damn picky as to where they could send him, I'm sure he could get moved at the drop of a hat. I don't really see a bright future for the D-Backs.
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Old 12-27-2004, 10:44 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I still have one question. Where are the D-backs getting all this money to pay all these free agents? I thought the team was bankrupt. Are they radically raising ticket prices for the upcoming season?
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Old 12-28-2004, 09:28 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dylanmarsh
Actually, I think both sides want to move him. The D-Backs just shelled-out a butt load of cash for Glaus and Ortiz and know need to offset those signings with dumping the Unit.
That is the perception of many about the DBacks financial state. Ken Kendricks (I think he's the main investor and he's also the acting CEO until Moorad becomes official) is painting and entirely different picture.

<http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/baseball/20041211-9999-1s11bbmeet.html>

Quote:
But the club that has everyone completely flummoxed is Arizona. The past three years, you'd have thought the Diamondbacks played home games at Bankrupt One Ballpark, what with all the stories of the team's failed finances.

The Diamondbacks, losers of 111 games last season, still owe more than $100 million in deferred paychecks to Randy Johnson and Luis Gonzalez and ex-Diamondbacks Curt Schilling, Matt Williams and Jay Bell, among many others. And now they're giving a combined $78 million to Glaus, coming off two years of shoulder problems, and Ortiz?

What, are they now making money out of sand in the Valley of the Sun?

"One of my favorite things is to read about a person who passed away and everyone assumed he was without funds," said Ken Kendricks, chief executive officer of the Diamondbacks. "Lo and behold, you find they have funds."

Kendricks then made an irrefutable point when asking aloud what he a man who has made his career and fortune in mergers and acquisitions can learn about economics from sportswriters, to whom new math is figuring a hitter's OPS.

Asked about the seeming contradiction, the Diamondbacks say they've restructured their organization and have $250 million in capital at their disposal. Even with the Big Unit making $17 million per annum and he's asking management to investigate the possibility of a trade to a contender the Diamondbacks plan to keep their payroll under last year's $80 million.

Imagine this, though. Here's an owner accusing the press of under-reporting his solvency and, hence, the ability to offer huge salaries. Most of his brethren would have you believe their major arteries are rivers of red ink.
I don't know how these guys do it. Somehow, they keep pulling money out their asses. Basically, that money allows the team to write off all of their deferred salaries. Another funny thing is that even though they lost 111 games and had a massive decline in attendance in 2004, it was financially their best season yet (although they still didn't make a profit). I think it was the first year they were eligible for revenue sharing and all that other money that expansion teams are excluded from for their first few seasons.

As far as signing Glaus and Ortiz and how that means they need to free up Johnson's money, the team got rid of a lot of overpriced free agents at the end of 2004:

Sexson (8.75M)
Finley (7M)
Mantei (8M)
Bautista (4M)
Dessens (3.5M)
Colbrun (2.75M)
McCracken (1.75M)
Reynolds (1M)
Baerga (1M)
Alomar (750k)
Sparks (500k)

That is $39 million they cleared after the season ended. Of that $39M, all of the players were dead weight, except for Finley and Bautista.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanmarsh
I don't really see a bright future for the D-Backs
In 2005, I don't see much for them either. They are probably at best a .500 team and even with that they will need help from their players. But really, if they won 75 to 81 games, it would be a phenomonal turnaround for the team. A 24 to 30 game improvement would be one of the biggest turnarounds in MLB history. They shouldn't expect too much this year and focus on making a good run in 2006.
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Old 12-28-2004, 09:40 AM   #30 (permalink)
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There is still a lot left this offseason. I think the NL West is still wide open. The Padres are young and should improve and adding Ortiz and Glaus could be big improvements for the DBacks. The Dodgers are much worse on paper than they were last season. The Giants added Alou and I think that could end up being a joke. The Rockies are still the Rockies.

Luis Gonzalez had TJ surgery, if he's healthy it's equivalent to an addition over last year. Gonzo, Ortiz, and Glaus could make a big difference for the team in 2005.

I think the Pads will win the west.

Last edited by kutulu; 12-28-2004 at 09:43 AM..
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Old 12-29-2004, 09:15 PM   #31 (permalink)
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sportcenter just ran a piece on Randy Johnson to the Yankoffs.

Looks like the deal is done waiting on commisioneer approval.
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Old 01-03-2005, 08:49 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Yes, the deal is RJ for Vazquez, Brad Halsey, Dioneer Navarro, and about $8M cash. In a related deal, the DBacks are sending Navarro plus a minor league pitcher to the Dodgers for Green and about $8M cash.
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Old 01-05-2005, 07:52 PM   #33 (permalink)
 
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rooting for the yankees is like rooting for OPEC
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