Vince Carter Traded......Maybe? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

silent_jay · 12-17-2004, 03:04 PM

Just heard about this story on Global News and while I'm not a big fan of basketball thought some of the guys here might have an opinion on this deal, or possible deal.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1948449

Quote:

The New Jersey Nets and Toronto Raptors are awaiting league approval of a trade that would send Vince Carter to the Nets, according to several league sources.

The Raptors would acquire Alonzo Mourning, Eric Williams, Aaron Williams and two first-round draft picks in exchange for Carter, according to ESPN Insider Chad Ford. The trade cannot be announced until the NBA approves it for salary-cap purposes, which could happen before the end of the day.

All trades must be approved by the league office and players must pass physicals before they can become official. Carter is currently on the injured list with a strained left Achilles tendon suffered last Friday and will miss at least five games.

If the trade goes through, it would be the most serious indication yet that the Nets want to keep Jason Kidd and are willing to build a championship contender around him. After the offseason trades of Kenyon Martin and Kerry Kittles, Kidd expressed his displeasure with the direction the Nets were taking. However, with Carter on board, the Nets have a shot at moving back into contention.

According to one source, Kidd was briefed on the trade and thinks Carter will be a strong addition to the team.

The two first-round picks the Raptors are to receive in the trade were obtained by the Nets from Denver in the Martin trade.

One of the picks, which was Denver's 2005 first-rounder, is protected if it is one of the first three picks in the '05 lottery.

The other, which Denver obtained from Philadelphia before trading it to the Nets, is protected if it is one of the first eight picks in the '05 lottery and one of the first five picks in the '06 lottery.

A backcourt of Kidd, Carter and Richard Jefferson is a highlight reel waiting to happen. However, the Nets will be very thin up front. After the trade, the Nets would have just Jason Collins, Brian Scalabrine and rookie Nenad Krstic to play on the front line. The move has more interesting implications for the Raptors. Both Williamses are the type of players that coach Sam Mitchell is after. They are tough, blue collar guys who will play their hearts out. Mourning gives them some size at the five that they desperately need. However, it will be interesting to see how Mourning reacts to the trade.

He's been asking out of New Jersey all season because he wants to play for a contender. Whatever you think about this trade for Toronto, it's tough to say that it turns them into a playoff-caliber team. Instead, the Raptors are trying to surround their star young player, Chris Bosh, with solid, veteran players who play the right way. The two first-round picks should help them rebuild.

Nimbletoe · 12-17-2004, 03:51 PM

There is no way the Nets can expect to contend with no one in the middle. Either they have plans to somehow get someone there, are planning on using Carter in a trade involving Kidd... or are just plain nuts. Sure, Kidd/Jefferson/Carter would be amazing, but you just aren't going anywhere without any middle of note. What would they do if they ran into Shaq in the playoffs? Have Kidd hump his leg while Carter pokes him in the eye? Cmon.

blitz.fenix · 12-17-2004, 03:51 PM

Any deal with Carter leaving Toronto is a good one IMO

caz · 12-17-2004, 03:54 PM

I gotta say that I am happy that Vince may get out of toronto, but I agree that the nets need some presence in the middle.

silent_jay · 12-17-2004, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimbletoe

....Have Kidd hump his leg while Carter pokes him in the eye? Cmon.

This line has made my day, that is just too funny.

Cross-Over · 12-17-2004, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimbletoe

There is no way the Nets can expect to contend with no one in the middle. Either they have plans to somehow get someone there, are planning on using Carter in a trade involving Kidd... or are just plain nuts. Sure, Kidd/Jefferson/Carter would be amazing, but you just aren't going anywhere without any middle of note. What would they do if they ran into Shaq in the playoffs? Have Kidd hump his leg while Carter pokes him in the eye? Cmon.

I don't think the Nets are realy trying to get anywhere significant anytime soon. I think they will take the fan support (Carter is 4th in All Star balloting) to try to sell tickets. Giving up two conditional picks and a couple decent players wasn't asking much.

radioguy · 12-17-2004, 08:56 PM

i think that's way too much to give up to obtain vince. he's injury prone and has a bad attitude. maybe the attitude was because he was stuck in canada, but i wouldn't want him on my team.

Dostoevsky · 12-18-2004, 05:47 AM

The Raptors have been trying to get rid of Vince for a couple years now from what I've heard. I'm surprised it's taken this long to happen. I've spoken with former teammates of his that were very critical of his work ethic and attitude towards the game.

jasonresno · 12-18-2004, 07:21 AM

I like the trade, how impressive is it to ha ve Kidd running the court and RJ on one wing and Vince on the other?

Cowman · 12-18-2004, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cross-Over

I don't think the Nets are realy trying to get anywhere significant anytime soon. I think they will take the fan support (Carter is 4th in All Star balloting) to try to sell tickets. Giving up two conditional picks and a couple decent players wasn't asking much.

Yeah but a large portion of that fan support is probably from Canada, or at least the ontario-basketball crowd. Does carter really have that much support anywhere else? (this is an actual question, as I have no idea)

Dostoevsky · 12-18-2004, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonresno

I like the trade, how impressive is it to ha ve Kidd running the court and RJ on one wing and Vince on the other?

Pretty impressive as long as all you're concerned with is highlight reel dunks. If you want to win games, well, probably a pretty bad idea. There is no way the Nets compete with top tier teams in the east without a big man, regardless of how many fast break lobs J-Kidd throws RJ and VC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowman

Yeah but a large portion of that fan support is probably from Canada, or at least the ontario-basketball crowd. Does carter really have that much support anywhere else? (this is an actual question, as I have no idea)

Yes, fans love Vince Carter. Let's face it, basketball is just a form of entertainment and VC is one of the most entertaining players in the NBA. He will sell tickets and increase revenue, especially in the short term. The only reason the Raptors have kept him around the last couple of years is the positive impact he has on the bottom line, it's business.

inkriminator · 12-18-2004, 04:50 PM

I think the Nets will get better after this trade. They are losing significant force in the middle, but how long can you expect Zo to be healthy? Scalabrine is turning into a very solid player. On the whole however, they don't have the inside presence to contend in the playoffs, but if you look at the top two teams in the West, phoenix and seattle, they've been doing well w/o a great center as well.

bravosnakeeyes · 12-18-2004, 05:11 PM

the weird part of all this is that Miami was offered Vince Carter for Eddie Jones straight up and Pat Riley and Randy Pfund passed it up. that should say alot about vince carter......

Mojo_PeiPei · 12-18-2004, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inkriminator

I think the Nets will get better after this trade. They are losing significant force in the middle, but how long can you expect Zo to be healthy? Scalabrine is turning into a very solid player. On the whole however, they don't have the inside presence to contend in the playoffs, but if you look at the top two teams in the West, phoenix and seattle, they've been doing well w/o a great center as well.

What has won the last 6 Championships?

San Antonio-Robinson/Duncan
Lakers-Diesel
Detroit-Big Ben and Rasheed

Who has gotten destroyed by said teams? Teams that run and gun i.e. 76'ers and Nets.

Vince is a solid player, but he isn't a great player. He is not a big game shooter, hell he's never played in one. Sam Mitchell barely plays him in the 4th quarter because his attitude and basketball fundamentals are just so bad.

Also the way I understand it, The Raptors' GM is a total moron for going ahead with this deal. First off they are stuck with Zo for at least two months, plus what they recieved won't help fill the void left by Vince, and they were already struggling at that. They would've been smart to have dealt him to New York for Penny and Tim Thomas, they would've gotten something like 50 million in cap room had they done it.

Also don't expect Seattle and Pheonix to be playing like this all season, or at least not Seattle. Although they are tearing it up now, I expect that the horse shoe that has been lodged up their collective asses will be burnt out and that their shooting percentages will drop back to reality.

Shpoop · 12-20-2004, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei

What has won the last 6 Championships?

San Antonio-Robinson/Duncan
Lakers-Diesel
Detroit-Big Ben and Rasheed

Who has gotten destroyed by said teams? Teams that run and gun i.e. 76'ers and Nets.

you neglected to mention that another team that got destroyed was the lakers with diesel...destroyed by ben and rasheed that are much more 'fun and gun'-ish than he is.

that being said, i still agree with you...no big man, you wont get very far

Nimbletoe · 12-20-2004, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shpoop

you neglected to mention that another team that got destroyed was the lakers with diesel...destroyed by ben and rasheed that are much more 'fun and gun'-ish than he is.

that being said, i still agree with you...no big man, you wont get very far

The Pistons are the team that uses up-tempo style of play the least. Shaq doesn't run much, but the rest of the team did. I don't think NJ will have a chance at doing anything, but a team like the Suns... watch out. If they can stay healthy, they'll continue to dominate. They're my sleeper pick to get to the finals.

12-17-2004, 03:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
Nimbletoe Junkie Location: Michigan	There is no way the Nets can expect to contend with no one in the middle. Either they have plans to somehow get someone there, are planning on using Carter in a trade involving Kidd... or are just plain nuts. Sure, Kidd/Jefferson/Carter would be amazing, but you just aren't going anywhere without any middle of note. What would they do if they ran into Shaq in the playoffs? Have Kidd hump his leg while Carter pokes him in the eye? Cmon. __________________ Go Pistons!

12-18-2004, 05:47 AM	#8 (permalink)
Dostoevsky Psycho Location: Macon, GA	The Raptors have been trying to get rid of Vince for a couple years now from what I've heard. I'm surprised it's taken this long to happen. I've spoken with former teammates of his that were very critical of his work ethic and attitude towards the game. __________________ Pride is the recognition of the fact that you are your own highest value and, like all of man’s values, it has to be earned. It is not advisable, James, to venture unsolicited opinions. You should spare yourself the embarrassing discovery of their exact value to your listener. Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

12-17-2004, 03:51 PM	#3 (permalink)
blitz.fenix Insane Location: Toronto	Any deal with Carter leaving Toronto is a good one IMO

12-17-2004, 03:54 PM	#4 (permalink)
caz Tilted Location: Illinois	I gotta say that I am happy that Vince may get out of toronto, but I agree that the nets need some presence in the middle.

12-17-2004, 08:56 PM	#7 (permalink)
radioguy Registered User Location: Texas	i think that's way too much to give up to obtain vince. he's injury prone and has a bad attitude. maybe the attitude was because he was stuck in canada, but i wouldn't want him on my team.

12-18-2004, 07:21 AM	#9 (permalink)
jasonresno Banned	I like the trade, how impressive is it to ha ve Kidd running the court and RJ on one wing and Vince on the other?

12-18-2004, 04:50 PM	#12 (permalink)
inkriminator Insane	I think the Nets will get better after this trade. They are losing significant force in the middle, but how long can you expect Zo to be healthy? Scalabrine is turning into a very solid player. On the whole however, they don't have the inside presence to contend in the playoffs, but if you look at the top two teams in the West, phoenix and seattle, they've been doing well w/o a great center as well.

12-18-2004, 05:11 PM	#13 (permalink)
bravosnakeeyes Upright	the weird part of all this is that Miami was offered Vince Carter for Eddie Jones straight up and Pat Riley and Randy Pfund passed it up. that should say alot about vince carter......