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Old 04-10-2005, 01:31 AM   #1 (permalink)
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LAKERS

This season has been painful.

I'm still a fan and will always be one, but I'm finding it hard to root for them.

If your a fan you can't expect your team to always win, but you at least want some guys that you enjoy watching play and that you can root for guys like:

Magic
Cooper
Silk
Rambis
Worthy
"sniff" Shaq

you get the picture... who inspires me on the lakers now? it is so damn hard to root for kobe- yes he makes at least one amazing play every game, but i've never seen a guy look so uncomfortable being a team mate. i wish they would just trade him and start over. Bring back the Van Exel and Vlade team anything but this unwatchable wreck known as the 04/05 Lakers.
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Old 04-10-2005, 02:56 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I was just thinking the other day that the various teams fortunes after the Shaq trade proved once and for all who the real leader of the team was.

Miami are thriving despite giving up three key players and Shaq barely playing 30 minutes a night, and the Lakers are floundering despite those three key players statistically making up for Shaq's absence and Kobe being given a larger role.

Kobe appears to be heading into Stephon Marbury territory as players who put up big numbers but really have little impact on the team's success.
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Old 04-10-2005, 08:04 AM   #3 (permalink)
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No question Shaq was the leader of those championship squads. People question just how great Shaq is, and look what he's done in Miami. Put the big man in the middle, Wade learns to shoot that 15-18 footer, and they go from barely making the playoffs, to possibly the best team in the NBA.

Happy hit it right on the nose. The numbers don't help if you can't get the people around you motivated, and involved in what's going on. I'm sorry to say, but Kobe hung from Shaq's nuts for 3 championship seasons, and now you see who the real "daddy" on those teams was.

I never thought they'd be that bad though. Rudy or Phil would have gotten this team into the playoffs. They still have alot of talent, alot of young guys, and with Vlade back they could have been even better down the stretch. They just went on self-destruct mode when Odom went down. Oh well, a playoff year without the Lakers, how nice it will be.

Last edited by Kurant; 04-10-2005 at 08:06 AM..
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Old 04-11-2005, 08:01 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Painful? This year has been absolutely hillarious!!
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Old 04-11-2005, 08:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I hate to be petty but:

It's almost poetic justice: Kobe, you reap what you sow!! Hahahha!

Luv ya Shaq, ignorance and all.
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Old 04-11-2005, 09:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
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In my opinion, nobody is ever going to live up to Magic or Kareem... but that's probably just because I grew up watching the showtime Lakers with my dad and brothers.

My brother seems to think that Shaq is only playing better with Miami because he was hot-dogging his last few seasons with the Lakers. I personally haven't seen a game all season so I don't know what to think about that. What do you guys think?
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Old 04-11-2005, 11:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
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You're all pinning this on Kobe? Why not Mitch Kupchak? Ever since he took over for Jerry West, it's been all down hill.

Look at his moves in comparison to other elite teams in the west:

Horrible late round draft picks. Would you rather have Parker, Ginobili, and Udrih or Walton, Cook, Medvedenko.. etc.. ugh.

NO midseason acquisitions. Everyone around the west is looking for a boost before the trade deadline.. but not the Lakers... for some reason.
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Last edited by Halx; 04-12-2005 at 01:16 AM..
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Old 04-12-2005, 01:58 AM   #8 (permalink)
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The gist of my post is not to apportion blame, but rather that it's now more obvious than ever that Shaq was the man on the Lakers championship teams and Kobe is a punk. Obviously Kupchak is to blame as he was the idiot who traded Shaq in the first place and decided that Kobe was the future.
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Old 04-12-2005, 11:47 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Happy
The gist of my post is not to apportion blame, but rather that it's now more obvious than ever that Shaq was the man on the Lakers championship teams and Kobe is a punk. Obviously Kupchak is to blame as he was the idiot who traded Shaq in the first place and decided that Kobe was the future.

I doubt Shaq would've saved the Lakers season if they kept him instead of Kobe. You have the injuries of Vlade and Odoms and no supporting cast. A healthy Odoms would've given them a good chance at the playoffs down the stretch. Come on, Chucky Atkins is their starting PG?! He'd be a bench player on most other teams. There has to be some blame on the Lakers management for not putting together a better team.

On the other hand, Shaq left and went to a better situation, with a team that made the playoffs without him last year. They have a 2nd great player in Wade and a supporting cast that includes Eddie Jones! Plus Miami belongs to the Eastern Conference! No matter how you slice it, they don't have the powerhouses (Spurs, Mavs, Kings, Suns, etc.) that the Lakers have to go against in the Western Conference. Therefore, I doubt that it is obvious that Shaq > Kobe!
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Old 04-12-2005, 06:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Shaq dogging it? That's BS. Look at his numbers. Practically identical to what they are now. He was just underappreciated in LA. Lakers trade kobe instead and they're geared for a playoff run.
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Old 04-12-2005, 06:43 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halx
You're all pinning this on Kobe? Why not Mitch Kupchak? Ever since he took over for Jerry West, it's been all down hill.

Look at his moves in comparison to other elite teams in the west:

Horrible late round draft picks. Would you rather have Parker, Ginobili, and Udrih or Walton, Cook, Medvedenko.. etc.. ugh.

NO midseason acquisitions. Everyone around the west is looking for a boost before the trade deadline.. but not the Lakers... for some reason.
Ordinarily I'd agree, put the blame where it is warranted, BUT, truth is, Kobe is the General Manager on that team.
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Old 04-12-2005, 06:55 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I am embarrassed by the Lakers performance. I predicted a 50 win season back in October and I was wrong. I own up to that.

I don't know how you can completely blame Kobe when he's averaging a career high 6 assists per game and still scoring 27-28 a night. He's only taking 2 more shots per game than last year. The fact of the matter is Lamar is not the right fit, Chucky has his nights but is really streaky, as is Caron Butler. Still, Kobe does lead the league in TO's I believe and his FG% is only 43%, that is not going to cut it.

Trading Shaq was the correct play in my opinion. Yes, he was dogging it at times last year. He was not as intimidating a prescence in rebounding or blocks. If you watched almost all the games last year (as I did) you would have noticed this. Shaq's numbers will drop off a little next year, and I predict he'll get injured. He was injured for long stretches on the Lakers about every other year even when he was young. The Lakers cut their losses knowing Kobe has probably 6-10 years left in his career while Shaq, though still the most formidable force in the league is diminishing and has maybe 2 years left after this year.

Will a rehiring of Phil as head coach help next year? Who knows. I'm just glad baseball season is here.
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Old 04-12-2005, 11:38 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Blaming Kobe is sort of, Idunno, fun I guess. I mean it's sports. Not to be taken seriously...at all. You know, fodder for barroom talk.

Kobe's number's ain't the problem. He still is a phenomenal player. The "blame" as it is, is usually directed at his "influence" or perceived influence as the GM on the Lakers. Plus his perceived selfishness, ball-hoggin etc (yes I know his assists are up). Perhaps most of all, his perceived role in Shaq leaving or being dismissed (yes I know BigDaddy is a BigBaby too).

But seriously: you have good points: an "ailing" Shaq, "plagued" by chronic injuries, bad attitude, laziness, overwieght...hmmmm... I might not have resigned him either. But, to his credit, he showed up! And up, and up......

To put it another way, had Laker management had any idea Shaq would come to Miami, in shape, motivated, healthy etc...maybe they would have done differently. As it were, Shaq didn't give any confidence that he would "show up". It looked like his career was heading south (I thought this too). But look at him now. Not bad eh?

But, in the end, it really falls on BOTH Kobe and Shaq because those two knuckleheads couldn't learn to get along!! That is the worst - The fans deserve better than that, the game deserves better than that. But I would blame Kobes a bit more than Shaq.

Kobe is just so...unlikeable. Like Barry Bonds.

I need to get a beer....

Thoughts guys?
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Old 04-13-2005, 10:46 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I couldn't be happier with what happened to the Lakers. At first I thought they might be able to squeak into the playoffs, maybe getting a 7 or 8 spot. But I still didn't buy it, I even went so far as to make a $20 bet that they wouldn't make the playoffs. Yeah I'm really pleased with myself on this one.
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Old 04-13-2005, 11:17 AM   #15 (permalink)
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There was no way that Buss could have kept both Shaq and Kobe. Their egos are too big. It's just that it is easier to build a team around a big center than around a guard. Shaq also had something to prove so he was pretty motivated this season. As for Kobe, I think he is a good individual player but not so much a team player. The Lakers need to make some moves if they want to get better.
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Old 04-13-2005, 04:56 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Lots of Lakers fans said playoffs, one in paticular around here told us we were underestimating them for giving them the 8 spot. No names mentioned.

Look, if you think this team would be less successful with Shaq, instead of Kobe, you really need some glasses. Long term, no question it was the right move. But as for this year, I promise you that team makes the playoffs with Shaq.

My prediction for the Lakers, and being the Laker and Kobe hater I am, I'm willing to bet Odom is gone during the offseason. He will not work in LA. He is a 6'10" guy, who doesn't play low post real well, and doesn't do much without the rock in his hands. Him gone, a point guard signed, and maybe a good draft pick or a way to sign a real big man and Phil Jackson, and that team can get there again. Odom being traded is a great way to get that team going in the right direction. And Mihm, or Mihn, whatever the hell his name is, is absolutley terrible. He doesn't start anywhere in this league except in LA and maybe for the Clippers.

The problem with the Lakers signing anyone, outside of a trade - Brian Grant and his ridiculious contract. That is NO ones fault BUT Kupchak. Brian Grant was the worst idea, ever. They'll never even be able to trade him. Who the hell would want that monster. (And I"m not talking about Grant, just the "features" that come with him").

Last edited by Kurant; 04-13-2005 at 05:01 PM..
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Old 04-13-2005, 06:39 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei
I couldn't be happier with what happened to the Lakers. At first I thought they might be able to squeak into the playoffs, maybe getting a 7 or 8 spot. But I still didn't buy it, I even went so far as to make a $20 bet that they wouldn't make the playoffs. Yeah I'm really pleased with myself on this one.
If you're going to say that, then I'm going to say that I'm glad the T-Wolves are going to miss the playoffs as well

They are a way bigger surprise missing the playoffs than the Lakers.
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Old 04-13-2005, 07:57 PM   #18 (permalink)
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"You're all pinning this on Kobe? Why not Mitch Kupchak? Ever since he took over for Jerry West, it's been all down hill.

Look at his moves in comparison to other elite teams in the west:

Horrible late round draft picks. Would you rather have Parker, Ginobili, and Udrih or Walton, Cook, Medvedenko.. etc.. ugh.

NO midseason acquisitions. Everyone around the west is looking for a boost before the trade deadline.. but not the Lakers... for some reason."

i think you hit the nail on the head there...then pounded it straight through the board. when you really think about how these things compound on each other, you suddenly realize at quarter til midnight how the lakers collapsed like they did. they brought in old talent to fill out their team, and it retired or got dumped. you mentioned the draft picks...it hurts on two levels: 1) they don't have young players progressing to become actual contributors/sidekicks, and 2) such young players are often the trade bait that gets the wheels turning (am i mixing metaphors? whatever) around the deadline.

seriously...go back in time two months (or 14 months if you wanna look at last year's squad)...you're any of the 29 GMs besides mitch cup-check (i won't comment on the fact his Carolina roots should have scared everyone off to begin with) who would you actually trade for on the lakers? i looked this up out of curiousity, and i was floored to find that slava medvedenko was their 5th leading scorer, after shaq kobe gary and karl. yikes. george was next, then fisher and rush. that's terrifying. george was the only remotely expendable player on the roster with any trade value, but they already overpaid to keep him in town, so he would likely bring a less talented player with a less troublesome contract. this year's team is full of small parts who might contribute a little or be a "final piece" type player for a championship team, but guys like jumaine jones don't really get the phones lit up. i think it all boils down to player development and the draft like you mentioned. if you want a baseball analogy, teams like minnesota develop talent and use it. teams like the yanks have good talent and trade it for older, more expensive talent. either way, without talent, the formula falls apart and you're left with the royals and the mets (maybe not this year, but we'll see)
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Old 04-14-2005, 03:17 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Yeah i remember after the playoffs last year how everyone was saying how great Rush was going to be and now he's playing behind Keith Bogans on the bobcats and shooting 37% from the field.

luke has slow feet and is a huge liability on defense. slav and bcook are the same player and grant is horrible.

it's def. an owner/management issue kobe didn't ask them to get crap for shaq. i'm sure kupcheck bought into that whole trade him to the other conference- which is stupid cause the east has less talent. are you telling me that there wasn't a better offer from dallas for shaq?

lets give it time i'm sure sasha will be the answer at point next year... groan.
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