Prepare for the strangest problem ever... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

PredeconInferno · 09-03-2003, 03:53 PM

So here's the situation:

Two computers, one router, one ADSL modem. Modem == Westell, Router == Netgear. Computer A == XP box Computer B == 98 box.

We have both computers hooked up to the router and they can communicate to eachother fine. Problem is, the internet is a bit strange. ONLY when both computers are plugged into the router at a time will the internet cut off about half an hour after it was activated. When either of the computers (yes, EITHER of them) is plugged into the router by it's lonesome, the internet works great.

We have all LAN settings on their appropriate settings (i.e. automatically detect settings, etc). When it cuts off, we've tried typing "ipconfig /renew" for the XP machine or "ipconfig /renew_all" for the 98 machine and I get an error message stating "DHCP server cannot be reached" or some such nonsense. It is nonsense, too, because I can browse the internet and all that when only one of the computers it hooked up to the router.

The router has all the appropriate settings as well. Since the server was originally set up on one of the computers, we have the router broadcasting THAT computer's network card's MAC address DHCP numbers, and all that good stuff.

I reiterate, the internet cuts out ONLY when both computers are plugged in. Since it's a pretty even amount of time that we last on the internet at a given time, I assume that it cuts off when the IP addresses expire (being a dynamic IP environment).

If any of you have ANY suggestions, please reply to this one. I've gotten rather irked at the reluctance of this system to work... even though machines are SUPPOSED to work.

PS I do have a personal firewall on my computer, however, this problem has been going on longer than I've actually had the firewall.

That's all.

Boner · 09-03-2003, 07:29 PM

First thing, I'd go look for a firmware update for the router.

Failing that, you might try turning off the DHCP server on the router and trying static addresses.

steveincolumbus · 09-03-2003, 07:52 PM

i had a similar problem when i was useing linksys routers, i had 3 of them all diffent models, i could kill them on demand, I thingk it couldn't handel my bandwith, was running 2 1 gig computers with 3 com cards full-duplex and a 3Mb internet connection, when i would transfer a file off the net at high speeds and then transfer a file localy on the network it would crash every time just about....... called linksys and they had never heard of the problem, the only fix was to hit reset on the router....... i got a great deal on a d-link and never have had a problem like that again.... though i could make it reboot every once and a while but d-link was very nice and sent me a fix via email and never happend again, but a reboot was much better than a lock up....

Shauk · 09-03-2003, 08:10 PM

reset the router is usually your best bet.. I had similar issues once..
good luck.

PredeconInferno · 09-03-2003, 10:39 PM

I've tried your suggestions... and it still doesn't work.

Thanks for the help. I'm going out tomorrow to buy a router that doesn't suck. (I hate Netgear) I hope they have Cicso or Linksys at BB tomorrow.

Hercules · 09-04-2003, 12:20 AM

Had MAJOR problems with my netgear router. Just ending up saying 'screw it' and went out and bought a Linksys.
Best decision I have done yet.

yotta · 09-04-2003, 03:02 AM

I like going hands on and routing with linux, personaly.

babaloo · 09-04-2003, 09:27 AM

How many IP's are you allowed to have? My ISP gave me one behind the modem. Even though the modem serves IP's via DHCP their is only one available. I NAT'd my network behind a firewall so that I could many machines.

Don't know if this is your problem but it would cause some wierdness.

blindawg · 09-04-2003, 09:33 AM

You may want to make sure that what ever PC is plugged into port 1 of the router is always on. It's been my experience that some routers.. (not with netgear, mines been rock solid, but d-link and belkin) if you don't have the #1 port active the others will lose internet connectivily. try that.. and also as i saw mentioned to update your firmware definately do that.

PredeconInferno · 09-04-2003, 05:44 PM

Actually I think I know what the problem is, if anyone cares still...

My ISP gave us an IP address to use... okay that's all fine and dandy.

Problem is, I think my router is configured for dynamic IP. Now, I'm not entirely certain, but I think this means that my router asks the ISP for a new IP address every time the old one expired. In this case, the router asks the ISP for something that doesn't exists, and boom, I'm off. Holes in this theory: why doesn't it happen when only one computer is plugged in? Whatever, I'm buying a D-link router. Screw Netgear.

bigdrunk92107 · 09-04-2003, 06:58 PM

I like the idea with the Static IP addressing.

charliex · 09-04-2003, 08:10 PM

most home dhcp servers don't expire IPs, and most ISPs have very long expiration times.

some kind of packet dumper, or nettrace and watch whats happening

Kyrin · 09-04-2003, 10:52 PM

Strange... I've a Netgear RT314 and I've never had a problem with it, I have a 3com DSL modem and have roughly 10 computers behind the router using the internet, I've never had a problem, and I've had the same DYNAMIC ip for over a year and a half... Sure, doesn't help you, but strange to hear so many problems with Netgear as I've never had any... luck of the draw?

smooth · 09-05-2003, 01:07 AM

I've never had any problems with Netgear either. This might help you troubleshoot: http://www.ethereal.com/

Mondak · 09-06-2003, 07:58 AM

I have a very similar problem. I have trouble shot this thing and determined a few things

1. I don't think it is the network card. I can still access files on the other computers on the network when computer #2 drops off.
2. It NEVER happens to my primary computer, but it does happen to my wife's and my work computer.
3. I think it has something to do with how the DNS server is working but I do not know. It only affects our ability to surf the internet.

With that being said, how DO you update the firmware of the router? I have a 3 - 4 y/o linksys router. Maybe that will help me.

mrap1 · 09-06-2003, 01:39 PM

I had the same problem as steveincolumbus. When ever I would transfer large amounts of data through the router it would crash. I simply updated the firmware and the problem was fixed.

PredeconInferno · 09-20-2003, 01:40 PM

Hey, I found out what the problem was:

In my roommate's ignorance, she failed to mention that our ISP had given us addresses to use. Now, this is all fine and dandy, but the router was set to be Dynamic meaning having a static IP means nothing.

everything seems to work fine now, thanks for the help!

09-03-2003, 03:53 PM	#1 (permalink)
PredeconInferno Reclusiarch Location: Unfortunately Houston, TX	Prepare for the strangest problem ever... So here's the situation: Two computers, one router, one ADSL modem. Modem == Westell, Router == Netgear. Computer A == XP box Computer B == 98 box. We have both computers hooked up to the router and they can communicate to eachother fine. Problem is, the internet is a bit strange. ONLY when both computers are plugged into the router at a time will the internet cut off about half an hour after it was activated. When either of the computers (yes, EITHER of them) is plugged into the router by it's lonesome, the internet works great. We have all LAN settings on their appropriate settings (i.e. automatically detect settings, etc). When it cuts off, we've tried typing "ipconfig /renew" for the XP machine or "ipconfig /renew_all" for the 98 machine and I get an error message stating "DHCP server cannot be reached" or some such nonsense. It is nonsense, too, because I can browse the internet and all that when only one of the computers it hooked up to the router. The router has all the appropriate settings as well. Since the server was originally set up on one of the computers, we have the router broadcasting THAT computer's network card's MAC address DHCP numbers, and all that good stuff. I reiterate, the internet cuts out ONLY when both computers are plugged in. Since it's a pretty even amount of time that we last on the internet at a given time, I assume that it cuts off when the IP addresses expire (being a dynamic IP environment). If any of you have ANY suggestions, please reply to this one. I've gotten rather irked at the reluctance of this system to work... even though machines are SUPPOSED to work. PS I do have a personal firewall on my computer, however, this problem has been going on longer than I've actually had the firewall. That's all. __________________ Samurai in Training Knowledge is power. Guard it well. Last edited by PredeconInferno; 09-03-2003 at 04:08 PM..

09-03-2003, 10:39 PM	#5 (permalink)
PredeconInferno Reclusiarch Location: Unfortunately Houston, TX	I've tried your suggestions... and it still doesn't work. Thanks for the help. I'm going out tomorrow to buy a router that doesn't suck. (I hate Netgear) I hope they have Cicso or Linksys at BB tomorrow. __________________ Samurai in Training Knowledge is power. Guard it well.

09-04-2003, 03:02 AM	#7 (permalink)
yotta Irresponsible	I like going hands on and routing with linux, personaly. __________________ I am Jack's signature.

09-04-2003, 09:27 AM	#8 (permalink)
babaloo Upright	How many IP's does your ISP provide? How many IP's are you allowed to have? My ISP gave me one behind the modem. Even though the modem serves IP's via DHCP their is only one available. I NAT'd my network behind a firewall so that I could many machines. Don't know if this is your problem but it would cause some wierdness.

09-04-2003, 09:33 AM	#9 (permalink)
blindawg Lord over all I survey Location: Northern Michigan	You may want to make sure that what ever PC is plugged into port 1 of the router is always on. It's been my experience that some routers.. (not with netgear, mines been rock solid, but d-link and belkin) if you don't have the #1 port active the others will lose internet connectivily. try that.. and also as i saw mentioned to update your firmware definately do that. __________________ ( • Y • ) I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. ( • Y • ) - Jack Handey

09-03-2003, 07:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
Boner Insane Location: Plugged In	First thing, I'd go look for a firmware update for the router. Failing that, you might try turning off the DHCP server on the router and trying static addresses.

09-03-2003, 07:52 PM	#3 (permalink)
steveincolumbus Psycho Location: BFE, Kentucky	i had a similar problem when i was useing linksys routers, i had 3 of them all diffent models, i could kill them on demand, I thingk it couldn't handel my bandwith, was running 2 1 gig computers with 3 com cards full-duplex and a 3Mb internet connection, when i would transfer a file off the net at high speeds and then transfer a file localy on the network it would crash every time just about....... called linksys and they had never heard of the problem, the only fix was to hit reset on the router....... i got a great deal on a d-link and never have had a problem like that again.... though i could make it reboot every once and a while but d-link was very nice and sent me a fix via email and never happend again, but a reboot was much better than a lock up....

09-03-2003, 08:10 PM	#4 (permalink)
Shauk Confused Adult Location: Spokane, WA	reset the router is usually your best bet.. I had similar issues once.. good luck.

09-04-2003, 12:20 AM	#6 (permalink)
Hercules Insane Location: TX	Had MAJOR problems with my netgear router. Just ending up saying 'screw it' and went out and bought a Linksys. Best decision I have done yet.

09-04-2003, 05:44 PM	#10 (permalink)
PredeconInferno Reclusiarch Location: Unfortunately Houston, TX	Actually I think I know what the problem is, if anyone cares still... My ISP gave us an IP address to use... okay that's all fine and dandy. Problem is, I think my router is configured for dynamic IP. Now, I'm not entirely certain, but I think this means that my router asks the ISP for a new IP address every time the old one expired. In this case, the router asks the ISP for something that doesn't exists, and boom, I'm off. Holes in this theory: why doesn't it happen when only one computer is plugged in? Whatever, I'm buying a D-link router. Screw Netgear. __________________ Samurai in Training Knowledge is power. Guard it well.

09-04-2003, 06:58 PM	#11 (permalink)
bigdrunk92107 Upright	Static IP's I like the idea with the Static IP addressing.

09-04-2003, 08:10 PM	#12 (permalink)
charliex Junkie Location: North Hollywood	most home dhcp servers don't expire IPs, and most ISPs have very long expiration times. some kind of packet dumper, or nettrace and watch whats happening

09-04-2003, 10:52 PM	#13 (permalink)
Kyrin Upright Location: The Basement in Calgary, Alberta, Canada	Strange... I've a Netgear RT314 and I've never had a problem with it, I have a 3com DSL modem and have roughly 10 computers behind the router using the internet, I've never had a problem, and I've had the same DYNAMIC ip for over a year and a half... Sure, doesn't help you, but strange to hear so many problems with Netgear as I've never had any... luck of the draw? __________________ My opinions are my own, you may or may not agree with them, but those are your opinions, which I also may or may not agree with.

09-05-2003, 01:07 AM	#14 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	I've never had any problems with Netgear either. This might help you troubleshoot: http://www.ethereal.com/ __________________ "The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

09-06-2003, 07:58 AM	#15 (permalink)
Mondak Industrialist Location: Southern California	I have a very similar problem. I have trouble shot this thing and determined a few things 1. I don't think it is the network card. I can still access files on the other computers on the network when computer #2 drops off. 2. It NEVER happens to my primary computer, but it does happen to my wife's and my work computer. 3. I think it has something to do with how the DNS server is working but I do not know. It only affects our ability to surf the internet. With that being said, how DO you update the firmware of the router? I have a 3 - 4 y/o linksys router. Maybe that will help me. __________________ All truth passes through three stages: First it is ridiculed Second, it is violently opposed and Third, it is accepted as self-evident. ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

09-06-2003, 01:39 PM	#16 (permalink)
mrap1 Insane Location: NY	I had the same problem as steveincolumbus. When ever I would transfer large amounts of data through the router it would crash. I simply updated the firmware and the problem was fixed.

09-20-2003, 01:40 PM	#17 (permalink)
PredeconInferno Reclusiarch Location: Unfortunately Houston, TX	Hey, I found out what the problem was: In my roommate's ignorance, she failed to mention that our ISP had given us addresses to use. Now, this is all fine and dandy, but the router was set to be Dynamic meaning having a static IP means nothing. everything seems to work fine now, thanks for the help! __________________ Samurai in Training Knowledge is power. Guard it well.