Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > Interests > Tilted Technology


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-22-2003, 08:24 PM   #1 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Location: Salt Lake City
Router VS. Hub

Our house's router is fizzing out, and we need to get a new one. But me and my roommate are in disagreement here. He swears that when he used to run an internet cafe all eight computers were hooked up to a plain ol' hub sharing a DSL line and everything was hunky dory. But everything I know about networking (which isn't a ton, granted,) leads me to believe that you CANNOT share an internet connection like that. You need a router so that it can pick up the WAN connection and share it between the LAN computers, since you're only allowed one IP address on the WAN side by the ISP. How can a hub without routing capability share a cable internet connection? Wouldn't it by definition be a router then?
__________________
---<>---^^---<>---^^---<>---
---^^---<>---^^---<>---^^---
---<>---^^---<>---^^---><---
GreasyP is offline  
Old 09-22-2003, 08:33 PM   #2 (permalink)
lost and found
 
Johnny Rotten's Avatar
 
Location: Berkeley
Pretty much what you said. Hub's don't connect directly to a broadband modem. They only connect multiple computers together. A router looks like a hub, except it can communicate with a modem to organize network address translation, which fools whoever is on the other side of your modem into thinking only one computer is connected to it.
__________________
"The idea that money doesn't buy you happiness is a lie put about by the rich, to stop the poor from killing them." -- Michael Caine
Johnny Rotten is offline  
Old 09-22-2003, 09:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: Florida
You need a router/gateway, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a separate box. You can even set up a Windows machine to do it with built-in Internet Connection Sharing software. It'd connect to the modem, and then to the hub with all the other computers. Or the DSL modem could have a built in router with an uplink port for an external hub.
irseg is offline  
Old 09-22-2003, 09:26 PM   #4 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Location: Notre Dame
You can use a hub if you have as many IPs assigned to you as you have machines - for most cable users I know this will cost an additional $6/mo. So it can be done, but with a router/gateway/switch you only need one IP address leased.
__________________
No mercy for the bandwidth impaired
LNCPapa is offline  
Old 09-23-2003, 04:22 AM   #5 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Check out the thread http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=19220 I posted a few weeks ago.

This gives an overview of the differences between hubs, routers, proxy servers etc.

It may be of some help to you.

Mr Mephisto
Mephisto2 is offline  
Old 09-23-2003, 04:41 AM   #6 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Re: Router VS. Hub

Quote:
Originally posted by GreasyP
Our house's router is fizzing out, and we need to get a new one. But me and my roommate are in disagreement here. He swears that when he used to run an internet cafe all eight computers were hooked up to a plain ol' hub sharing a DSL line and everything was hunky dory. But everything I know about networking (which isn't a ton, granted,) leads me to believe that you CANNOT share an internet connection like that. You need a router so that it can pick up the WAN connection and share it between the LAN computers, since you're only allowed one IP address on the WAN side by the ISP. How can a hub without routing capability share a cable internet connection? Wouldn't it by definition be a router then?
What you are thinking is correct. The only way it would have worked, which I myself have done, is is the DSL company gave him unlimited IP addresses. I have set up a network like that, because the DSL company allowed multiple IPs from the same modem. In that case a hub would work just fine. The only advantage of that is price, otherwise it is not a good idea. With a router you get more security and less packet collisions. Not sure what his situation was, but I bet it was that the company allowed multiple IPs for him.
G_Lock is offline  
Old 09-23-2003, 12:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Location: Salt Lake City
Sweet. Glad to know I'm not losing my mind. Now the only thing to decide is whether to tell him he's wrong or let him go buy a hub and make a fool of himself trying to set it up. Decisions...
__________________
---<>---^^---<>---^^---<>---
---^^---<>---^^---<>---^^---
---<>---^^---<>---^^---><---
GreasyP is offline  
Old 09-23-2003, 01:53 PM   #8 (permalink)
Psycho
 
Location: Initech, Iowa
A friend of mine has his home set up with just a hub connecting 2 computers and a Xbox to a cable modem. The internet service uses dynamic IP addresses. Does this mean he can only use one device at a time on the internet or would it matter?
Dibbler is offline  
Old 09-23-2003, 03:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Quote:
Originally posted by Dibbler
A friend of mine has his home set up with just a hub connecting 2 computers and a Xbox to a cable modem. The internet service uses dynamic IP addresses. Does this mean he can only use one device at a time on the internet or would it matter?
He should be able to use them all on the internet. What happens for me, and what I think is normal, is that the PC connected to your ISP has their address, and all the other PCs have 192.168.0.x addresses since they're sharing the connection.
__________________
We may lose, and we may win, but we will never be here again.
jfranco13 is offline  
Old 09-23-2003, 06:18 PM   #10 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Location: Salt Lake City
Well, now don't I look like an ass. He buys the hub, brings it home, I'm all ragging him that it's not going to work. I bet him a beer. He plugs it in. It works. If you can read this, it's still working as I type. Each of our computers is now directly connected to the internet, with its own global IP and everything. Only thing I can figure, Comcast must not be paying much attention to how many people are connecting from each house, even though they claim it's $5/month extra for each separate IP you want to connect after the first one. I figured they would watch that closely but I guess not.

Upside: Bittorrent works a lot faster now because we're not behind a router.
Downside: I'm out a beer.
Yeah, I can live with that.
__________________
---<>---^^---<>---^^---<>---
---^^---<>---^^---<>---^^---
---<>---^^---<>---^^---><---
GreasyP is offline  
Old 09-23-2003, 06:26 PM   #11 (permalink)
lost and found
 
Johnny Rotten's Avatar
 
Location: Berkeley
Are you sure it's not a router/hub combo? Check the box extra careful.
__________________
"The idea that money doesn't buy you happiness is a lie put about by the rich, to stop the poor from killing them." -- Michael Caine
Johnny Rotten is offline  
Old 09-23-2003, 06:33 PM   #12 (permalink)
Insane
 
Location: SLC, UT
at the isp where i used to work we distributed dsl modems to our customers that had built in routers with only one port...so all you had to do was add a hub/switch and you could hook up as many as you have ports for
__________________
<Arcane> so if you banged 2000 chicks then at least one had a pen0r?
arcane is offline  
Old 09-23-2003, 06:48 PM   #13 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Location: Salt Lake City
Quote:
Originally posted by arcane
at the isp where i used to work we distributed dsl modems to our customers that had built in routers with only one port...so all you had to do was add a hub/switch and you could hook up as many as you have ports for
I went to whatismyip.com and it reported the same IP I have locally with ipconfig, so I've got a direct connection, no router. Plus I got one of those Windows Message Alert popups before I got a chance to install BlackICE, so that wouldn't happen behind a router unless it was forwarding all ports to me for some reason. Go Comcast!
__________________
---<>---^^---<>---^^---<>---
---^^---<>---^^---<>---^^---
---<>---^^---<>---^^---><---
GreasyP is offline  
Old 09-23-2003, 08:57 PM   #14 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Location: Notre Dame
Wish Comcast would give me more IPs without a charge. Think they'll mind if I pull my 11 machines in this house outside of my gateway?
__________________
No mercy for the bandwidth impaired
LNCPapa is offline  
Old 09-23-2003, 09:02 PM   #15 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Location: Salt Lake City
You never know until you try... Though who knows, maybe they'll just tack it on his bill next month. Emphasis on his bill.
__________________
---<>---^^---<>---^^---<>---
---^^---<>---^^---<>---^^---
---<>---^^---<>---^^---><---
GreasyP is offline  
Old 09-23-2003, 11:25 PM   #16 (permalink)
Devils Cabana Boy
 
Dilbert1234567's Avatar
 
Location: Central Coast CA
you must have a router, you can plug a hub into a router through an uplink port on the router and share the internet through both the hub and the router but you must ahve the router conenceted to the modem through th WAN port on the router. (should be labeled WAN or 'internet')
__________________
Donate Blood!

"Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen
Dilbert1234567 is offline  
Old 09-24-2003, 02:02 AM   #17 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Dilbert1234567
you must have a router, you can plug a hub into a router through an uplink port on the router and share the internet through both the hub and the router but you must ahve the router conenceted to the modem through th WAN port on the router. (should be labeled WAN or 'internet')
I knew that you could plug a hub into a router, and that the router would assign each of the comps plugged into the hub a 192.xxx... private IP. My only question too anyone is, how many IP's will the router support? I mean to be technical you could have an endless number of computers plugged into one of those standard 4 port routers. I mean say to plug a hub into each of the 4 router ports, and each hub has say 8 ports. And then you plug 7 computers plus another 8 port hub into the first 8 port hub, and so on. With that you could end up with SOOO many computers. So my question is, how many will the one router support. Lets just say, incase it helps, that it is a Linksys 4 port DSL/Cable modem Router. What do you think?
G_Lock is offline  
Old 09-24-2003, 04:08 PM   #18 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Location: Notre Dame
Usually 253
__________________
No mercy for the bandwidth impaired
LNCPapa is offline  
Old 09-24-2003, 04:31 PM   #19 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Quote:
Originally posted by LNCPapa
Usually 253
Is this because standard IP addresses have xxx.xxx.xxx.1-255?
And if that's true, then why 253, and not 255? Just curious.
G_Lock is offline  
Old 09-24-2003, 05:16 PM   #20 (permalink)
Darth Papa
 
ratbastid's Avatar
 
Location: Yonder
A few IPs are reserved for broadcast and network purposes.

Using a router is a better idea--for the very reason you discovered. Having your very own provider-assigned IP address exposes each machine to the dirty dirty nastiness of the Internet, requiring per-machine firewalling. Using a router with NAT blocks most of those things. And most NAT routers allow port forwarding and other ways of exposing only the services you want to the world at large.
ratbastid is offline  
Old 09-24-2003, 05:53 PM   #21 (permalink)
undead
 
Location: nihilistic freedom
In your friend's defense, my cable modem actually has a router with DHCP server built into it. In other words, a hub would be sufficent for me. I still choose to use a router becuase it gets rid of the packet collision problem and because my router acts as a firewall. But anyway, yeah, your friend might have the same modem where he can get away with using a simple hub.
nothingx is offline  
Old 09-24-2003, 05:58 PM   #22 (permalink)
Insane
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
Whats going on here is that, he is correct that the modem is plugged into the hub and that the hub is the one handeling the traffic. But the Modem itself is the router, because certian DSL modems in the cisco series have routing capabilities built in. So, the best possible answer is that the modem is a cisco 67x series and handles routing.
__________________
"Sell Crazy Somewhere Else, We're All Stocked Up Here," Jack Nicholson - As Good As It Gets
Nhanced1 is offline  
Old 09-24-2003, 09:01 PM   #23 (permalink)
lost and found
 
Johnny Rotten's Avatar
 
Location: Berkeley
I knew I wasn't nuts
Quote:
Originally posted by Nhanced1
So, the best possible answer is that the modem is a cisco 67x series and handles routing.
I knew I wasn't nuts .
__________________
"The idea that money doesn't buy you happiness is a lie put about by the rich, to stop the poor from killing them." -- Michael Caine
Johnny Rotten is offline  
Old 09-25-2003, 07:34 AM   #24 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Location: Salt Lake City
It's not a cisco, it's a cheapo 3Com.
__________________
---<>---^^---<>---^^---<>---
---^^---<>---^^---<>---^^---
---<>---^^---<>---^^---><---
GreasyP is offline  
 

Tags
hub, router

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:58 PM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360