Policeware? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Gotenks · 12-22-2003, 05:53 AM

Taken from http://www.stoppoliceware.org/

Quote:

The CBDTPA is a bill (S. 2048) proposed in Congress by Senators Fritz Hollings (D-SC) and Ted Stevens (R-Alaska), along with Senators Daniel Inouye (D-HI), John Breaux (D-LA), Bill Nelson (D-FL), and Dianne Feinstein (D-CA). The acronym stands for "Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act". Note that the CBDTPA was originally known as the "SSSCA" while in draft form.

The law would force all new personal computers and digital home entertainment devices sold in the United States to have government-approved "policeware" built-in.

This policeware would restrict your use of copyrighted material on these devices -- including music files and CD's, video clips, DVD's, e-books, and more.

Who could go to Jail?

You, if you're one of the millions of Americans who uses your computers to burn music CD's, listen to MP3's, share video files, etc. You'd face up to five years in federal prison and a $500,000 fine.

Think you'd be able to get around the law by removing the policeware from your personal computer? Think again -- anyone who defies the government by disabling or tampering with the policeware on their own computer, in the privacy of their own home or business, would also face five years in the slammer.

Since alternative operating systems like Linux and FreeBSD would most likely refuse to incorporate government policeware into their code, users of these open-source systems would also be eligible for hard time.

All I have to say is dot dot dot... I understand trying to keep internet piracy to a low number, but I think this is a bit extreme.
$500,000? 5 YEARS in jail?
This is going a bit too far. Not to mention the outrageousness of the whole "Users of linux/freebsd" crap, basically any unix programmer just lost his job, because now it's "illegal" to use operating systems other than windows/mac.

The question at hand is this.
Is this bill going to infringe upon our right to be "free"?
Is the "PoliceWare" the same as being under constant surveillance?
What do YOU think of this, agree/disagree.

nash · 12-22-2003, 06:24 AM

I don't believe that the bill will pass. There's probably a whole lot of privacy issues going on here. Not to mention that the Congressmens' computers will be required to have them too; I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be to happy about that.

Lasereth · 12-22-2003, 06:26 AM

There's a bunch of bullshit in that quote. I've heard of the SSSCA before, and while it is a small threat, it would never happen. Well, I suppose there's a small chance that it could, but it wouldn't last long. Previous Windows operating systems wouldn't be affected with it (Windows Longhorn was the first rumored to come "bundled" with it) and *nix systems WOULD be allowed. I don't know where that information came from on the site, but it's all exaggerated big time. Of course, I may be wrong, but about a year ago this news was a big deal. Since then, it's basically died away.

The scary part about it is that AMD and Intel have already agreed to support this act along with Microsoft (if it actually goes through). I'm not sure if this has changed, but a year ago they agreed on the beliefs of the act.

I'm not afraid of it one bit. If it passes, it won't last. Consumers won't allow their privacy to be sliced in half by computers. Look what's happening with the RIAA -- there are already dozens of legal action cases be brought against them, and they're simply against music! Imagine how many cases will start if entire OS's have anti-privacy programming installed on it.

Either way, everyone remembers what happened when the consumer world found out about the "extra" log-in in Windows XP. It was a pipe that could potentially feed information about your computer usage straight to Microsoft. Not long afterwards, the Windows XP Anti-Spy was released that basically killed everything about XP that users were worried about privacy-wise. I imagine that the same type of utility will be constructed if this policeware idea comes into play. I'm not worried about it!

-Lasereth

Spyder_Venom · 12-22-2003, 07:38 AM

I don't see how the hell this can pass. If it does though, just remember, with everything in life, there is a way around it.

The_Dude · 12-22-2003, 12:24 PM

yea, judicial review will surely stiike this down.

Giltwist · 12-22-2003, 12:42 PM

People who knew about it would just not buy new computers.

Let's be honest, the internet is today's wild west. It's the last bastion of freedom and, just like the wild west, its slowly being overrun by government. It's just a matter of time til the next frontier of freedom comes along.

My guess is once we are able to hook the net right into our brains, there is gonna be some wild times for a while.

charliex · 12-22-2003, 02:43 PM

Stupider things have passed, media corporations are very powerful, politicians are greedy, the DMCA is still knocking around, the RIAA is still able to proceed with prosecutions, just they say at more cost and time, which is their way of saying the courts/politics caused all this extra cost, not us.

Is anyone winning against the RIAA, sure they may not be able to get information from verizon or such in the smae way, but how much will that change, do you think they'll just give up ?

Presumably they are making people admit they stole music and made them pay for it, rather than the typical corporate way of paying and at the same time saying, we didn't do anything, wrong, or at least admit to nothing and if you want the money, we'd prefer to settle.

Once thats happened, its going to be a lot harder for people to overturn the rulings, a signed confession in a lot of ways, i'm sure the RIAA's lawyers are very careful about how they went about it.

Theres no such thing as freedom in regard to countries and citizens, just varying levels of control.

Soon there will be so many of these things , it'll be impossible to figure out whats legal and whats not without a team of lawyers, already the patriot act is making it more costly and harder to run a business here, this makes other countries look more appealing.

Hopeully it'll only be america that does this, we'll see if they bully any other countries into signing up too.

As CPUs get faster and cheaper encryption algorithsm will get harder, and presumably stupid mistakes like the DVD encryption codes being left out in the open will be less likely.

They are using the whole, the new media is being held back til its figured out, this is true to an extent, companies don't want to give out easily reproducable digital media that sustain their business model, more than half the time revenue comes from back catalogue.

I do think the corporations will win eventually, its just a matter of time and how, the law is on their side. People in general do have a habit of just accepting it/

Jam · 12-25-2003, 01:14 AM

whats this about win xp??? someone want to give me a link?

Pragma · 12-25-2003, 06:38 PM

There's no chance in the world this will ever come to pass within our lifetimes. Consumers will refuse to let the government spy on them in such a broad fashion (it'd be the same as dropping video cameras in your house, waiting to see if you broke any laws).

As for the "anti-UNIX" thing, that's a riot. I actually fell out of my chair laughing when I read that. That site where you got the quote is the Steve Gibson of "policeware".

Xenomorph · 12-26-2003, 12:43 AM

Representative government, yo.

I've got my eye on which of my legislators back this thing up...I'm probably not the only one.

It seems to me like an outrageous invasion of privacy, and what could be the first step on to a very slippery slope.

flamingdog · 12-26-2003, 05:55 AM

Jesus.

Thoughtcrime.

Lasereth · 12-26-2003, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flamingdog
Jesus.

Thoughtcrime.

Or what about...PRECRIME! Man that's a great idea. Let's make a cool ship that can haul policemen with jetpacks to people's houses that are about to commit a crime! That would rock. Ok, sorry, I couldn't resist.

-Lasereth

12-22-2003, 06:26 AM	#3 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	There's a bunch of bullshit in that quote. I've heard of the SSSCA before, and while it is a small threat, it would never happen. Well, I suppose there's a small chance that it could, but it wouldn't last long. Previous Windows operating systems wouldn't be affected with it (Windows Longhorn was the first rumored to come "bundled" with it) and *nix systems WOULD be allowed. I don't know where that information came from on the site, but it's all exaggerated big time. Of course, I may be wrong, but about a year ago this news was a big deal. Since then, it's basically died away. The scary part about it is that AMD and Intel have already agreed to support this act along with Microsoft (if it actually goes through). I'm not sure if this has changed, but a year ago they agreed on the beliefs of the act. I'm not afraid of it one bit. If it passes, it won't last. Consumers won't allow their privacy to be sliced in half by computers. Look what's happening with the RIAA -- there are already dozens of legal action cases be brought against them, and they're simply against music! Imagine how many cases will start if entire OS's have anti-privacy programming installed on it. Either way, everyone remembers what happened when the consumer world found out about the "extra" log-in in Windows XP. It was a pipe that could potentially feed information about your computer usage straight to Microsoft. Not long afterwards, the Windows XP Anti-Spy was released that basically killed everything about XP that users were worried about privacy-wise. I imagine that the same type of utility will be constructed if this policeware idea comes into play. I'm not worried about it! -Lasereth __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

12-22-2003, 07:38 AM	#4 (permalink)
Spyder_Venom Psycho Location: MN	I don't see how the hell this can pass. If it does though, just remember, with everything in life, there is a way around it. __________________ The local track whore

12-22-2003, 12:24 PM	#5 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	yea, judicial review will surely stiike this down. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

12-22-2003, 12:42 PM	#6 (permalink)
Giltwist Insane Location: Pennsylvania	People who knew about it would just not buy new computers. Let's be honest, the internet is today's wild west. It's the last bastion of freedom and, just like the wild west, its slowly being overrun by government. It's just a matter of time til the next frontier of freedom comes along. My guess is once we are able to hook the net right into our brains, there is gonna be some wild times for a while. Last edited by Giltwist; 12-22-2003 at 12:44 PM..

12-25-2003, 06:38 PM	#9 (permalink)
Pragma I am Winter Born Location: Alexandria, VA	There's no chance in the world this will ever come to pass within our lifetimes. Consumers will refuse to let the government spy on them in such a broad fashion (it'd be the same as dropping video cameras in your house, waiting to see if you broke any laws). As for the "anti-UNIX" thing, that's a riot. I actually fell out of my chair laughing when I read that. That site where you got the quote is the Steve Gibson of "policeware". __________________ Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!

12-22-2003, 06:24 AM	#2 (permalink)
nash Psycho	I don't believe that the bill will pass. There's probably a whole lot of privacy issues going on here. Not to mention that the Congressmens' computers will be required to have them too; I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be to happy about that.

12-22-2003, 02:43 PM	#7 (permalink)
charliex Junkie Location: North Hollywood	Stupider things have passed, media corporations are very powerful, politicians are greedy, the DMCA is still knocking around, the RIAA is still able to proceed with prosecutions, just they say at more cost and time, which is their way of saying the courts/politics caused all this extra cost, not us. Is anyone winning against the RIAA, sure they may not be able to get information from verizon or such in the smae way, but how much will that change, do you think they'll just give up ? Presumably they are making people admit they stole music and made them pay for it, rather than the typical corporate way of paying and at the same time saying, we didn't do anything, wrong, or at least admit to nothing and if you want the money, we'd prefer to settle. Once thats happened, its going to be a lot harder for people to overturn the rulings, a signed confession in a lot of ways, i'm sure the RIAA's lawyers are very careful about how they went about it. Theres no such thing as freedom in regard to countries and citizens, just varying levels of control. Soon there will be so many of these things , it'll be impossible to figure out whats legal and whats not without a team of lawyers, already the patriot act is making it more costly and harder to run a business here, this makes other countries look more appealing. Hopeully it'll only be america that does this, we'll see if they bully any other countries into signing up too. As CPUs get faster and cheaper encryption algorithsm will get harder, and presumably stupid mistakes like the DVD encryption codes being left out in the open will be less likely. They are using the whole, the new media is being held back til its figured out, this is true to an extent, companies don't want to give out easily reproducable digital media that sustain their business model, more than half the time revenue comes from back catalogue. I do think the corporations will win eventually, its just a matter of time and how, the law is on their side. People in general do have a habit of just accepting it/

12-25-2003, 01:14 AM	#8 (permalink)
Jam Junkie	whats this about win xp??? someone want to give me a link?

12-26-2003, 12:43 AM	#10 (permalink)
Xenomorph Crazy Location: St. Louis, MO	Representative government, yo. I've got my eye on which of my legislators back this thing up...I'm probably not the only one. It seems to me like an outrageous invasion of privacy, and what could be the first step on to a very slippery slope. __________________ The facehugger is short-lived outside the egg which normally protects it. Armed with a long grasping tail, a spray of highly-concentrated acid and the single-minded desire to impregnate a single selected prey using its extending probe, it will fearlessly pursue and attack a single selected target until it has succeeded in attachment or it or its target is dead

12-26-2003, 05:55 AM	#11 (permalink)
flamingdog Still fighting it.	Jesus. Thoughtcrime.