j8ear

I'm thinking of picking up a sweet, carl ziess lensed, Sony digital 8 camcorder. Does both digital and analog. It's a DCR TRV 250

Retail, 500.00

My price, 275.00

Entry level camera with exceptional optics, 20x zoom, 700digital, has RCA and usb2/FW outputs, and uses a small proprietary tape.

Doesn't have flash or mic inputs, and view finder is bw. LCD is small but probably excellent none the less.

Apparently though this format is destined to wind up on the betamax heap with a bunch of other not adopted formats?

I'm thinking this does everything I could imagine a camcorder to do, and regardless of the extinction of new Digital8 camera's, this is always best transferred to a different format anyway, whether, some video stream for the internet, or a DVD/VCD for the DVD player. I should be able to use this forever, provided it doesn't break.

Right?

Anything I haven't considered, or any strong arguments for spending another 100 bucks for the Canon opt10 miniDV camcorder?

All thoughts, research, experience, and knowledge welcome.

Cheers,

-bear

__________________
It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

agball

The main difference between Mini DV and Digital 8 is the tape size. Digital 8 was intended to be an easy way for 8mm/Hi8 users to move to digital. The specs of the format it's self are very similar to Mini DV. The cameras are only consumer grade entry level cameras but produce good images if used properly.

In my experience, the MiniDV format surpasses the Digital 8 format to a certain degree. On a standard, midrange Digital 8 the picture quality is visualy exactly the same as that of a standard, midrange MiniDV, however MiniDV has one feature that I have as of yet to see on a Digital 8 camcorder-Progressive Scan frames. This feature gives your videos a much more professional look when watched on a television monitor, as it appears quite similar to motion picture film. This is the only real difference I can see between the two different formats, so if you can find a camera with Progressve Scan mode, get it.....it's worth the extra bucks.

Here is a link to help some more.

http://hometheater.about.com/library.../aa020300b.htm

__________________
"A friend with weed is a friend indeed"

shakran

I'd find a miniDV camera. It's gonna be around for awhile, and digi8 probably isn't. plus, nearly all miniDV cameras will plug into your computer via firewire or usb for easy editing of your videos. 8's often don't have that capability.

FYI b/w viewfinders are better. They're sharper than color so you can focus better with them.

wakelagger

Don't get hyped into the digital zoom numbers, regardless of how many "times" the digital zoom can go, it still sucks. Its no better than opening a picture in photoshop and just zooming in. The pixels just keep getting biggerand bigger until that bodacious babe on the far side of the beach becomes a blurry mass that looks several times uglier than she should.
Furthermore, if Digital8 is a failing format, how much longer will the tapes be sold? Theres nothing like having a company pull the rug out from beneath you just as you invest in their technology.

Rodney

Digital 8 was and is a good "bridge" solution for people straddling the analog and digital world. If you already had old-fashion 8mm or Hi-8 tapes, a digital 8 camera with firewire can play them, encode them digitally and send the digital output to your machine. So you can then edit the tape digitially. It can also work as a pass-thru between your computer and other analog devices. For example, if you have VHS tapes that you want to export digitally, you can hook the VHS deck up to the Digital 8 camera and then hook the Digital 8 firewire cable to the computer. The Digital 8 camera (or at least some of them) will take the VHS input, encode it digitally and send it on to your computer.

But if you don't have that need, I wouldn't go with digital 8. Frankly, mini-DV-format camcorders of reasonable competence are now on sale in the low 300s, and while mini-DV will not be around forever, it will be around longer than Digital 8, which is solely a creature of Sony and will abandoned unceremoniously one day without warning (Sony's way). MiniDV is (for now) an industry standard.

Like others say, I wouldn't obsess on the lens much. Digital zoom just gives you a bigger picture with less detail, and it's a bugger to keep the camera steady enough when it's zoomed out 30x or more, unless you're using a tripod. If you ever plan on doing video at a party or gathering with a lot of people, you should get a model with an external mike jack. The condenser mike on cheap cameras can just go crazy in a crowd. A good-enough mike is relatively cheap. Also a good idea if you want to tape something/someone you can't get near, like somebody speaking at a podium to a crowd. You can put the mike on the podium and stand back with your camera a reasonable distance.

shakran

first off, the lens is extremely important. It's a lot more important than the digital zoom number, which as has been mentioned, is essentially bullshit.

Zeiss lenses are extremely good for consumer lenses. They won't begin to approach the quality of prosumer or professional lenses, but then TV stations routinely pay well more than $10,000 for a lens.

btw, a few tips. Always use a tripod. Very few people outside of the television industry are good enough to make a video steady enough to not look like shit. If you have to follow action around, put the camera on the tripod, then hold the tripod's head and run the camera that way - the legs hanging down form a counterweight, and you have a poor man's steadi-cam.

if you have to shoot off the sticks, RELAX. The more tense you are, the more you jerk. Breathe with your stomach, you'll be steadier. If you're following someone, match footsteps with them - their left to your left, etc. That will eliminate the swaying you get from walking.

Avoid pans and zooms they almost always look like crap. Hold your shots. Don't shoot one thing for 2 seconds, then zip off to something else. Count to at least ten with EVERY shot you make.

Above all, remember that you're telling a story, not just fucking around with a camera. As such, figure out what that story will be and shoot accordingly.

Rodney

I did find one way to get a good pan without the tripod set up, though I've only tried it with smaller cameras: with the tripod attached to the camera, jam the tripod handle under one armpit and pin the tripod to your body with that arm. Operate the camera with your opposite arm and hand. The tripod and camera are temporarily an integral part of your torso. If your turn your torso steadily from side to side, the camera will move as you do and you'll get a pretty steady pan.

j8ear

Thanks for the input.

I'm aware of the limitations (read:worthlessness) of digital zoom and was particularly attracted to the 20x OPTICAL zoom of this camera. Can't find anything with a fixed lens that does as well.

Also, I do have a good stock of legacy hi8 and other 8mm analog footage that will be well handled by the Digital8.

I think that's what I'm gonna go for.

First camcorder purchase for me, so it seems like a good way to get an excellent quality recorder, at an awesome price.

One day I'll pick up a canon xl1 miniDV bad boy

Really appreciate the photog advice as well. I am huge tripod (or monopod) fan.

Thanks Again,

-bear

__________________
It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

Rodney

Yer welcome. But I'll save you a grand or more, some time in the future, and tell you to go with the GL1 unless you need audio line input or removable lenses.