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Old 01-18-2005, 02:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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ipod shuffle

So I already have an ipod and love it... I use it constanly and am really happy with it. I have heard the news about the ipod shuffle that has just been released and was thinking about purchsing it as a gift for a family member. I understand that it holds no where near as much music, but I think the memory is perfect for this person. Does anyone have one yet? What do you think.
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Old 01-18-2005, 02:51 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'd never even heard of it until reading this. I looked it up on Apples website -
http://www.apple.com/ipodshuffle/

Looks like it's $100 for the 512 mb, and 150 for the 1 GB. In my opinion - not worth it at all. Sure it looks small and portable, but check the stats - its 3.3 inches tall, .98 inches thick. Thats only .3 inches tall and .02 inches thick away from the iPod Mini, which for only 100 dollars more gives you 4 times as much space. You might as well just buy a MP3 CD player, if you only plan on holding a couple hundred songs (or less) and have the lower end budget..unless the size is an issue.

Also, the lack of viewscreen and quick navigation is a real disadvantage as well. And it looks like you can't pick exactly what song you want to listen to - it's strictly a shuffler, which I guess is why they named it that. It seems to me that that would get pretty impractical at times. Thats just my opinion, though. I can see something like this being a really nice idea if it was maybe around $60 or $70, the price of a good MP3 CD player + CDs. Basically just a stick version of a CD player.

Personally, I wouldn't buy one for myself - i'd definitly spend the extra $100 on an iPod Mini (if I didn't already have my 2nd generation iPod) or even more for the full iPod. For a gift, however, maybe it might not be such a bad idea. It'd be a nice suprise for somebody whose not expecting it and doesn't really want/need a full blown iPod.
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Old 01-18-2005, 03:38 PM   #3 (permalink)
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idk... i think it's a good idea for people who don't care what order they listen to music in. in my mind, it's perfect for the gym (assuming you spend your time lifting/running/biking/whatever it is you do in the gym!).

it's pretty much a flash drive with playback... which i guess is the primary reason it's so small.

considering i paid $159 for a 128 mb mp3 player back in 2003, this seems like a bargain, lol. 872 more mb for 9 less dollars!

as said, if someone doesn't want/need a full blown ipod; just wants something to play music while working out it's a good fit. if you want control over what you're listening to, it's probably a bad idea.
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Old 01-18-2005, 06:08 PM   #4 (permalink)
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its not HD based
so it won't skip or damage the HD if you're running or something
so its running on flash. thats why its so much more expensive.

it has its uses.
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Old 01-18-2005, 06:48 PM   #5 (permalink)
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It has the ability to either play in shuffle mode or in a playlist mode. The lack of LCD screen is kind of a minus, but really do you actually need an LCD screen when you only hav 100-200 songs. I have a 512mb rio with a LCD, but no way to skip through and pick a specific song or anything, so what good is the screen. Do you really sit and watch the song title go by as you are listening? this is marketed for people that already have a hd player and want a flash player to take to the gym etc. Also the fact that it will hold other files makes it somewhat unique. Not only does it play music but you can store your work files etc on it also...

I probably won't buy one since I have a flash based player and an iPod, but I still think it is just as good as any other flash based player out there and for once, not too far from the going price of them.
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Old 01-19-2005, 12:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Of course, the most crucial queston is, how do you write the plural of 'iPod shuffle'? Engadget investigates...
Quote:
It took us a few days of harrassing Apple’s PR department, but we were finally able to answer one of the most burning questions of the past seven days: Is it “iPod shuffles” or “iPods shuffle”? Here’s a transcript of our conversation:

US: Thanks for calling us back. We have a really important question for you. How do you pluralize “iPod shuffle”?

APPLE: Like in a sentence?

US: Yeah, like would you say “iPod shuffles” or “iPods shuffle”?

APPLE: Huh. “iPod shuffles”. It’s “iPod shuffles”.

US: Are you sure? Would you mind double-checking, because people do say “attorneys general” and not “attorney generals”. We don’t want to offend William Safire and write the wrong thing.

APPLE: Let me ask someone here. [puts us on hold for a minute] Yeah, it’s “iPod shuffles”.

US: Thanks!
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Old 01-19-2005, 01:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
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All I know is that I really want one. For reals. Somebody buy me one please
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Old 01-19-2005, 02:04 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm a huge fan of the iPod - I'm on my third, it's a 30GB, and as soon as the 60GB price lowers (or they come out with an 80), I'm all over it.

I initially thought that the iPod shuffle, like the iPod mini, was a dumb idea. With the mini, it was $200 for 4GB, and for $50 more you could get the 15 GB iPod. Apparently, though I was the only one who thought the mini was dumb, as everybody bought one.

So I thought the same thing with the iPod shuffle until I thought about my wife. She likes music but isn't a huge music nut, like I am. 120 songs at her fingertips would be just about more than she would know what to do with. And the thing looks cool, especially hanging around her neck. She's been interested in the iPod and the mini, but I feel like buying her one of those would be a complete waste.

I do think that the lack of a display is lame, but I understand that they did it so they could keep the size small as well as the price low. They were very clever to come up with this entire "life is random" advertising scheme to make it look like it was a benefit instead of a detriment.

The honest truth is that there are some people out there who don't need 500-15,000 songs. They just need a few CDs worth. The iPod shuffle is made for them.

I'd get one for my wife today...if only the Apple stores weren't already completely sold out.
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Old 01-23-2005, 07:50 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Wow.. I love engadget all the more for actually documentating that sort of conversation Thank you for sharing it Redlemon.
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Old 01-23-2005, 09:53 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Maybe I'm just a sucker for the marketing/hype, but there's something about the ipod shuffle that other flash based Mp3 players just don't have. I know other's have screens, run on AAA batteries, and have more features than just playback and shuffle. It's the whole thing with Apple products, where you get really stylish stuff that you can actually do something with. Is there an already standout flash based Mp3 player that is better than the ipod shuffle, based on price and storage capabilities? I'd really like to know so I can get the biggest bang for my buck. And no, I don't want to plop down another $100+ for a "real" ipod. $150 is where I stand, not counting accessories.
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Old 01-23-2005, 10:02 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilbeefchan
Maybe I'm just a sucker for the marketing/hype, but there's something about the ipod shuffle that other flash based Mp3 players just don't have.
Yeah. An Apple logo. I guess that's worth it to some people.. I'll repeat here what I posted on engadget:

I like all the excuses people make for this thing lacking essential features like a screen. Just be honest, you bought it because it's cute and Apple made it.

Thank God Apple doesn't sell cars. I could just see it now.. "It's so beautiful in its simplicity! Why be encumbered with needless things like a steering wheel for trips where you only need to go in a straight line? And it's a steal at only $25k!"
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Old 01-23-2005, 10:24 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I think they are neat and im glad apple came out with something cheaper than the ipod but its not something new, flash based mp3 players have been out for a while. But i love itunes and im sure its more compatible than other mp3 players.
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Old 03-03-2005, 04:11 PM   #13 (permalink)
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So does anyone actually have one yet? Im considering getting one, its just the lack of LCD that sucks. Size wise its perfect, i dont have 200 songs so that not the problem, but i do have a question. If you dont want to shuffle it, how would u arrange a playlist without an lcd? Do you just make a playlist on your computer and it will transfer it to the ipod, or do u have to load it in the order you want, or is there no way to have an order. O yea, you can use existly mp3s on your computer right, you dont have to buy itunes? This is kinda a big decision cuz i dont really have that much and dont want to drop another $100 for the mini, if im probably not going to use it to capacity. Thanks.
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Old 03-03-2005, 05:23 PM   #14 (permalink)
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If the Ipod Shuffle is priced at $100 for a 512 meg capacity, I think I'd rather buy this: Lexar JumpGear

Uses removable USB jump drives, comes with a 512 and a 128 meg drive and is still tiny. It has a screen, and the overall shape is pretty cool. From the reviews I read the sound quality is good, but like every other Mp3 player, the bundled earbuds suck.


Plenty of options other than the shuffle in the 512 meg, $100 and under range.

Even better, for $120 you can get one with a 1gig and a 128meg drive HERE
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Old 03-03-2005, 06:36 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I have an iPod shuffle and i love it. It's my first MP3 player, so I don't have much to compare it to, but it's been great. I use it mainly for working out and it's great for that. I wouldn't look at the screen even if I had one, if a song come up that I'm not int he mood for, i just skip to the next one. It's a great toy for $100!
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Old 03-04-2005, 07:14 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1slOwCD8
If you dont want to shuffle it, how would u arrange a playlist without an lcd? Do you just make a playlist on your computer and it will transfer it to the ipod, or do u have to load it in the order you want, or is there no way to have an order. O yea, you can use existly mp3s on your computer right, you dont have to buy itunes? This is kinda a big decision cuz i dont really have that much and dont want to drop another $100 for the mini, if im probably not going to use it to capacity. Thanks.
iPodlounge | Complete Guide to the iPod shuffle should answer most of your questions, plus some others that you haven't thought of yet.

You can use existing MP3s, no problem.
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Old 03-04-2005, 08:12 AM   #17 (permalink)
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SHould I buy something like the shuffle instead of a mini if I am planning on using it for jogging in the mornings? Do mini's have problems with that since they are hdd based?
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Old 03-04-2005, 08:19 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bratwurst
SHould I buy something like the shuffle instead of a mini if I am planning on using it for jogging in the mornings? Do mini's have problems with that since they are hdd based?
Mini's are flashed based. So either one would work.
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Old 03-04-2005, 08:30 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelbend
Mini's are flashed based. So either one would work.
Incorrect. The mini has a hard drive.
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Old 03-04-2005, 08:44 AM   #20 (permalink)
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My mistake. I was sure I read that somewhere.
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Old 03-04-2005, 12:37 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Redlemon
Incorrect. The mini has a hard drive.
No actually you are incorrect. The mini has a large CF card in it. Remember when they first came out? Digital camera buffs were buying them like crazy so they could rip the CF card out of them.

Perhaps the newer ones use some variety of an IBM microdrive (which is still in a CF form factor and really shouldn't count as a hard drive), but the mini's certainly do *not* have a hard drive in them.

Last edited by skaven; 03-04-2005 at 12:42 PM..
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Old 03-04-2005, 12:40 PM   #22 (permalink)
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And as for the Shuffle, I saw one today while I was out eating lunch. They're not as small as they'd like you to think. Sure, it was sleek and stylish, but really quite clunky compared to my Creative MuVo. Plus my MuVo has an LCD (a very sharp one, at that!) and runs on a AAA battery (don't need to dock it to charge it). I got my 512M MuVo with FM radio for $97 six months ago; I presume the prices now are in line (read: lower) with the Shuffle's.

::shrug:: I suppose the shuffle is targeted at a different group of people, though.
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Old 03-04-2005, 01:04 PM   #23 (permalink)
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After a little research, here is a photo of the mini's microdrive:



Seems like we were wrong.

Here is the complete article mini autopsy
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Old 03-04-2005, 01:11 PM   #24 (permalink)
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So, is a Hitachi Microdrive considered a 'hard drive' or a 'compact flash'? I found references both ways on the net.

Anyway, I tried searching for "ipod mini" and jogging. I found
Quote:
Unfortunately, I wouldn't recommend it to people who just want an MP3 player for running. It has 25 minutes of skipless play, but since it is a hard drive-based player, it does have to read the player once every 25 minutes. This is much better than it formerly was, but it still can be annoying if you are out on a several hour run.
So, if music while jogging is your main thing, the iPod mini doesn't seem to be the right thing for you.
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Old 03-04-2005, 01:22 PM   #25 (permalink)
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If I ran for several hours at one time, I don't think I'd have to worry about my mini skipping.
Who can hear over all of those ambulance sirens?
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Old 03-04-2005, 02:18 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Yeah I maybe looking at a half hour jog in the mornings. I have about 20 pounds to lose.
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Old 03-04-2005, 04:01 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Hows the sound quality. A lot of treble, or is it good? Im asking cuz i noticed theres no bass button so i thought the quality could be crap.
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Old 03-07-2005, 05:46 AM   #28 (permalink)
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There is an on-board EQ with about 25 default settings so you should have no problem there. As for the overall sound quality, all of the iPods have been consistently ranked with excellent sound quality. But you might consider replacement headphones.
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Old 03-14-2005, 10:43 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Hows the sound quality. A lot of treble, or is it good? Im asking cuz i noticed theres no bass button so i thought the quality could be crap.
The stock apple headphones are alright, not great. I hear the Apple "in ear" headphones are much better. I might try those out, maybe others that already spend the extra $$$ will be more help than me.
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Old 03-22-2005, 08:46 PM   #30 (permalink)
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RedLemon:

To my knowledge, the Hitatchi Microdrives are hard drives. They are just a very small form factor. The difference between the iPOD Shuffle and the other ipods (as far as the storage medium) is that the iPOD Shuffle is actually a flash drive, and as such it is solid state.

If you wished to use it for working out or something along those lines I would recommend a flash based player since it won't skip while jogging or doing other such activities. However, the price difference between microdrives and solid state flash is quite a bit different, although the prices seem to be falling for flash drives.
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:14 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Alrighty

a) The MicroDrive IS a HDD, it's simply packaged in a CF card for size and usability. It still has a platter and it still spins. A normal CF card, or any other flash-based media is sold-state, meaning no moving parts.

b) The Microdrive and minidrives in iPods and iPod minis are quite shock resistant. I know MANY people who use both at the gym and do not have problems. The MicroDrive is extremely small, has only one platter and two heads, and is designed to take falls (without a shell) from 4-5'. The drive in the iPod, I *believe*, is liquid filled (oil-based)... so it's slower (4200rpm or less) which is fine for it's application, and much less sentsitive to impact.

c) Flash does not equal more expensive, per se. Though flash has a higher cost/MB, it's simply because there are no 60- and 80-GB Flash ICs available. You can get a 4GB solid state CF for ~$300.

d) None are inherently "better" than the others (in the Apple line). They all serve their own purpose. I've been debating whether I should get Combatmedicjen a Shuffle or a Mini. She can use both at the gym, either will give her enough space (she loves music, but wouldn't mind having a dozen playlists that she swaps between), and are small and light. I still think I'll go with a mini, but we shall see...
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:19 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlemon
So, is a Hitachi Microdrive considered a 'hard drive' or a 'compact flash'? I found references both ways on the net.

Anyway, I tried searching for "ipod mini" and jogging. I found

So, if music while jogging is your main thing, the iPod mini doesn't seem to be the right thing for you.


Also not a serious concern... that would mean it'd have to be constantly skipping for 25 minutes so as not to be able to rebuffer. At the gym, on treadmills, many people use the arm-band accessory for the mini... They are running, and they'll go 45-60 minutes and never have to wait for music.

Again, typical views on platter media (HDD) vs solid-state (Flash) don't apply at such small scales. If you had an iPod Giganto with a 400GB 3.5" PC HDD in it, yeah, jogging would suck with it (aside from the bulk and weight) as it would skip often, and the drive would not likely last more than a few months.
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Old 03-26-2005, 06:28 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I just exchanged my iPod Shuffle 512MB for an iPod Mini 4GB. I had the Shuffle for about a week, it was nice, but it had no display. For $100 more I have a Mini with 8 times the storage and a nice display. I thought seriously about the Rio Nomad, and might still switch to it. I'm going to give the Mini a week. We will see....
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Old 03-26-2005, 07:40 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
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b) The Microdrive and minidrives in iPods and iPod minis are quite shock resistant. I know MANY people who use both at the gym and do not have problems. The MicroDrive is extremely small, has only one platter and two heads, and is designed to take falls (without a shell) from 4-5'. The drive in the iPod, I *believe*, is liquid filled (oil-based)... so it's slower (4200rpm or less) which is fine for it's application, and much less sentsitive to impact.
one key to getting the best possible no-skip performance from the iPod HD is to use 128kbs AAC files. the iPod caches music data in chunks and then spins the hard drive down, so it's not even spinning all that much if you use the lower possible compression size that still gives decent quality -- 128kbs AAC. you could do 128Kbps mp3 files, but AAC has better quality for less size. 128kbs ACC is supposed to equal 160kbs mp3.

doing so helps the battery life as well.

and of course the surest way to kill an iPod's performance is to aiff or apple lossless codecs.
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Old 03-26-2005, 08:03 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Well, I will use this Mini mainly in my van and on walks, so vibration shouldn't be a problem. I used the Mini tonight while grocery shopping. Damn, it is sooo much more fun grocery shopping when you have some old Metallica blasting....And I love the quick volume dial.
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Old 04-02-2005, 11:29 AM   #36 (permalink)
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I had a 512MB shuffle...and to be honest, after having LOST IT (ARGGHHH) I have really begun to question its usefulness. I am a music major, so my tastes in music run far and wide, but I don't really get to listen to a whole lot of music everyday because, well, I'm making music upwards of 5 hours a day. So really, I only used it for one purpose, studying for music history tests where there was a listening identification part. Now, without it, I'm doing just as fine, although more than a little pissed at having wasted a hundred dollars. I wouldn't recommend this thing unless you plan on listening to it A LOT. The loseability is one thing, but if you only listen to it 10-20 minutes a day, you definitely could get away with a much smaller and cheaper player. Headphones were nice though.
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Old 04-05-2005, 11:56 AM   #37 (permalink)
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An advantage Apple has regarding portable MP3 players is simplicity in the product line. You've got a few models to choose from based on your desires/needs. It's pretty damn easy to pick the one you like and you're off using it.

In contrast, Gizmodo must list 1 or 2 new MP3 players every day from a growing number of vendors. Reviewing product after product from all these vendors, wondering if it's as good as the other one you just looked at, would drive me nuts. It's easy to choose an iPod because lots of people have them, they work well, they look nice.

I'd buy a Shuffle for no other reason than not needing to read 15 reviews of similar products. LCD screen would be nice, but how long are you really looking at the LCD screen while you're on the treadmill, walking to class, or nodding off to sleep?
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Old 04-05-2005, 12:39 PM   #38 (permalink)
 
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the problem with shuffle on ipod is it resets if you add music (basically you have to reshuffle everything). if you have to reshuffle every time you use the ipod shuffle, that's even worse (i don't know how it actually works).

i usually use album shuffle for the ipod, but upon reshuffling, it's surprisingly possible to hear something i just heard. it would be nice if they had some sort of "smart shuffle" option to avoid this.

they should have at least included a playlist editor for the ipod shuffle.
i'm sick of saying shuffle.

Last edited by trickyy; 04-05-2005 at 05:56 PM..
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