kel

I'm looking for a non-lethal concealed carry option.
Would a blackjack qualify? Where can I purchase a quality blackjack? I've looked around at various shops and online and the ones I have seen are total crap. You couldn't hurt a fly with them. I've seen what a good one looks like and know what it feels like and I'm pretty confident it would be a good edge in hand to hand.

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DelayedReaction

Consider an ASP. They may be a little too long for concealed carry, but they're far more effective than something like a blackjack.

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kel

An ASP is a baton correct? Aren't they harder to slip pass someones defenses? You can knock out someone with a blackjack even if they block your arm thanks to the spring mounted lead weight. If the weight is small, dense, and compact enough you can get a really wicked hit in. It only takes one hit, and you don't have to knock them out cold, just enough to give you an edge.

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DelayedReaction

Do you have any experience with close combat? I certainly don't, and I feel much better off with a 36" length of metal in my hands than a sap. Why? I have reach, and it requires less skill to use. If you happen to be some kind of close-combat god, then by all means go with something that you've trained with. But if you're anything like me, and just want something reliable for self defense, go with an ASP.

Another option is pepper spray. I believe it's Fox Labs who sell spray which is extremely potent, and designed to incapacitate.

Remember, you're not looking to kick someone's ass. If you're in a situation that requires you to defend yourself, you want to get AWAY from the danger as fast as possible. Pepper spray is an effective weapon that requires little training, and should be capable of rendering your foe unable to pursue you.

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TheKak

Extendable metal batons are deadly weapons, and should only be used when you need to use deadly force. A good whack to the head/neck and kill someone, and a good whack anywhere else can break bones if done with the proper technique. For non-leathal solutions I would recommend a taser, stungun, or pepperspray (effectivness in that order).

I have been hit with pepper spray and pepper foam, and though they both suck to get hit with, had I been armed with a weapon I could have still easily killed the sprayer (it was consentual sprayings, I wasn't attacking anyone!).

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kel

Thank you all for your commentary but I wasn't asking whether or not I should use a black jack. If I want to kill people I'll use my g-17. I am not overly concerned over the level of lethality I use as an alternative to a pistol.

I was asking where a quality blackjack can be purchased, either by mail order or in the state of WA.

Pepper spray is a pretty weak alternative to actual weapons.
Tasers work fairly well but are more complicated to use in general.

Don't post about the merits or lack thereof of blackjacks and batons please.

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MSD

I haven't tried a taser, but I can disarm someone who's using a police-issue stungun on me. Cool party trick, no alcohol involved.

joebalama

"Extendable metal batons are deadly weapons, and should only be used when you need to use deadly force".

TheKak

I disagree. A good hard strike to the common peroneal will slow a good sized man down in a flash. I've had training with batons and believe me, they are not limited to deadly force situations. if they were, we po-lice woudn't carry them.......we'd go straight for our pistolas!

Acetylene

I'd recommend visiting your local Thieves' Guild.

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G5_Todd

i know that trick....but it involves.....stand like this with it in your left hand and ect..... lol



"hey you cant move"

Fire

the problem is that most states consider the sap a lethal weapon, and there is not much market for them now adays, having been supplanted by the expandable batton- so far I have not seen a good one on the market anywhere.......- having answered that, do you need a less than lethal weapon for legalese reasons, cause at least here, you can carry a gun on the concealed carry permit, but not a knife or any other weapon- would the law where you are treat the sap as a non lethal weapon ie is there even a point to using one at all?

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kel

Fire I think your correct, am looking into WA law right now. I assumed that it would be legal in the state like most other reasonable weapons are, but I am finding out otherwise from local martial artists.

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Big Cholla

I am a Law Enforcement Officer in the Las Vegas, Nevada area. Here we would regard the carrying of a "sap" and/or blackjack as illegal and would ticket and confiscate. A better option would be the common "Kubaton". If one becomes trained in its use and then stays current, kubatons are very good in close quarter battle situations. The big problem that I see is that a gun or a knife always will defeat the kubaton if available to the BG. Why not just avail yourself of the CCW laws and get the training and a permit? NRA statistics show us that 92/93 % of the time that a Good Guy shows a gun and orders the BG to "stop that", that is exactly what happens. There are some tactics that the GG should learn to ensure that happening, but are not too hard to learn or to retain. The ASP is a Law Enforcement tool and is not legal carry for non-police.

kel

Because I ended up taking a job in MA...

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longbough

I agree with TheKak.
For most people the ASP will be used to crack across someone's temple - that is a potentially lethal strike.

If you want something for concealed carry I presume it is for self-defense. A blackjack is employed as an offensive tool. It's a pretty poor for defensive purposes.

A good defensive tool is a very strong Surefire flashlight. These aren't like normal flashlights - they are small enough to fit in a pocket and can put out about 120+ lumens of light which can effectively blind someone in broad daylight. It's activated with a pushbutton on the endcap so it isn't awkward to deploy and activate quickly - easier than pepper spray.

Even a moment of light in their eyes is enough to give you an edge so you could run away or do whatever...

Sure, it doesn't sound very macho, but it's damn effective. Surefire makes a ton of different models - and now even a "Defender" with a jagged edge around the bezel so it can be used as a striking tool.

shadowalker

Never really used a blackjack on anyone, but i can say my sap gloves have done quite a nice job getting me out of sticky places. 8 oz of steel shot in each glove makes a nice strikeing surface. I even using them while playing paintball and thay go a good job of protecting my hands from direct shots from the flanks.

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Apokx

Lightsaber hilt!(Not really,but makes me think of them~)

Lebell

I really gotta get me one of them surefires...

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MSD

No, it involved "Where do you want me to shock you?" "Surprise me"

longbough

LOL. Gee, you're right. I didn't even notice.
I have a Surefire on my person at most times whether I'm armed or not. Even with a firearm holstered IWB I carry one on my "support side" next to my spare mags.

Suave

Take up boxing.

longbough

...or just kick 'em in the balls and run away.