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Attraction: Women think men are mostly ugly. They are probably correct.

Discussion in 'Tilted Life and Sexuality' started by Herculite, Dec 1, 2017.

  1. Herculite

    Herculite Very Tilted

    Now I just saw this blog though its been out for 8 years.

    Your Looks and Your Inbox – The OkCupid Blog

    While there are some other tangents that are good I'll cut to the main point.

    Men are far more "forgiving" of looks than women are in terms of what they find attractive. Men follow a normalized curve when rating females where as women rate 80% of men "below average" in looks.

    Men on the other hand swing for the fences on who they try to date. While they may find a woman attractive, they are much more likely to try to get a date with the super model. Women are more likely to try to get a date with the "below average guy" than swing for 20% of "above average guys" unlike the men with the top % of women.

    Basically women have unrealistic expectations of male attractiveness.

    And men have unrealistic expectations of outcome.

    Now walking around a mall today, noon so its a middle aged or older crowd, in a way I think the women are right if the math is wrong. Men *are* uglier than women. Looking around, being this was an mid day crowd I realized I was one of the better looking guys there, like top few %. Its not because I'm attractive, online I know I'm in that ugly 80%, but for this group I was a hottie. While the women weren't very attractive either (same reason the men weren't) there were a lot more better looking women and a few very attractive ones.

    So I think the women might not be right about whats average, their perception isn't wrong, there aren't that many hot guys out there.

    This also explains something I see in swinging. The complaints, constantly, is how "ugly" the guys are compared to their wives. While I've had a few women who were into me while the guy wasn't into my wife, when we are rejected on photos, for the ones we know, its usually like this.

    Email: "Hey you guys are hot, I'll talk to my wife and we can set something up!"

    Email2: "Sorry but my wife says shes not interested."

    Now my wife has a large strike zone but a lot of women want that hot guy play thing and what I've seen when that happens is the husband is often worse than I am, objectively speaking.

    So the wife married the "ugly 80" but wants the hot 20 for her fantasy. (And possibly more like hot 10%)

    But....

    While if you took say 100 random women off the street and 100 men, and lets assume between 25-35, it would be fair to say, in my opinion anyways, that the women were better looking as a group than the guys, but there is one thing I was forgetting.

    Makeup.

    While you can find articles about guys wearing makeup, its not the norm, and in fact I've only seen it online, a few homosexual men, and obviously transsexuals. Women of course its the norm. I wonder how much of that normalized curve for men, isn't because of male expectations being more realistic but because makeup can hide flaws that you see in men.

    I'd love to see a study of men and women without makeup and see where the attraction curves lie.

    I also have a hypothesis, that women not wearing makeup would find a greater % of men attractive, but just a hypothesis.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. MeltedMetalGlob

    MeltedMetalGlob Resident Loser Donor

    Location:
    Who cares, really?
    I know it's subjective, but I found the women that were categorized as "in the middle" as far as looks go, were far more attractive to me than the women that were at the top. Trying to pinpoint it, I think it comes from the fact that "ElleSC" and "rds858" appear to be genuinely smiling/laughing, while the other two seem forced. One of them isn't even smiling; I wouldn't even waste my time trying to contact her if I was on that site. To me, the "middle" ones radiate warmth, which would be an encouragement to a middle-aged schlub like myself.

    I guess photos really are the most important selling aspect.
     
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  3. Herculite

    Herculite Very Tilted

    You know I did not look closely at the photos. You are right, the "hot" ones look unhappy, faking.

    I don't know if their profiles had more and they just picked one for the blog but I agree that I'd not contact either.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Well, first...they invest for the most part a LOT more time and money and effort into looking good.
    Makeup
    Hair
    Clothes
    Etc...

    And they do it for themselves...so they feel good about themselves and the reactions they get.
    Or at least, I've never asked ANY woman to do all that they do for me.

    So it's understandable that they would look better. (then again, I may be biased)

    Next, I find that women are a LOT more detail oriented than men.
    A guy comes into a room...he says cool or not cool or meh...A woman comes into a room, they know the colors, makes, types, models, aspects, etc and so on and how they relate to one another.
    A guy sees a person talk, he may listen...may see some actions. A woman sees another talk...they see eyebrows raise, what the meaning may behind it, hair, shoes, nails, etc and so on...there's tons more communication.
    I'm simplifying but you get my point.

    It would be understandable that they would see details more so than men.
    Also, I find that they judge more harshly and granular...of themselves, of fellow women, and of men.
    Although they're much more forgiving and empathetic at the same time.

    So it would be understandable that they'd think men of more moderate or even ugly.
    Men tend to think in generalities... (she's hot or not, she's doable or not, she's funny or not, she's smart or not, she's annoying or not...and so on)
    It's rare I've ever heard a man describe in detail what he likes about a woman (or even a guy friend)

    So I'd be a bit more contextual about saying a woman things of guys more as "ugly"

    Also men have also been taught by society that it's acceptable to go for risks...go for goals, get what you want.
    Women have been encouraged to repress a lot, to be polite, discrete, "lady-like", be careful, protect yourself, aggressive is bad, don't be "bitchy", guys don't like men who approach first...and so on.
    When I taught Karate...women took a hit well, they're tough...but they had a hard time "allowing themselves" to hit. Due to society training.
    Plus women often don't realize how hard it IS to constantly take the first approach. To be the one to put themselves "out there" first.
    Men have to develop a more aggressive stance, just to survive. get more dates...AND women get pissed/insulted if you don't make the move first often.
    YET...when they have to do it...they "prefer" to allow the men to do it...or they feel uncomfortable.
    Is this because of society training...or their own fears/nerves/desires??
    Does it matter?
    Because the results are the same...
    Men go for what they want, Women hesitate more.

    So the dynamics are circumstantial.

    Women are detail oriented and visually critical. (of all, not just men)
    Women are more likely to hesitate or not aspire.

    So the second one...as society changes, women are becoming more willing to take that chance. And guess what?? They're just as shallow, picky and visually comparative as men.
    Hey, I don't see a lot of ladies going for Danny DeVito types.
    Men are becoming a lot more interested in other aspects of women than just looking good and maintaining home. (they want smart, talented, wise, personable, communicative, women...not just arm candy)

    The first, I don't think you're going to change.
    That's hardwired, women being detail oriented...that will only change with time and generations.
    Unless you go out of your way to TRAIN men to be more detailed, specific and critical. (down to the centimeter, folks)
    But would that be useful or productive??

    I've heard from lesbians that they often have the same problems with women that men have with women. (so it ISN"T men, being men)
    And I've heard from gays that they often have the same problems with men that women have with men (so it ISN'T women, being women)

    In Sweden, where they've had gay marriages for decades...it's WOMEN who initiate the divorces more...both in straight and gay relationships. Men tend to want to stay married.

    So the question is...is it natural
    Or social?
    And can it be changed or taught?

    I think people think too much into this shit.
    Just find who likes who...leave the baggage at the door.
    Go for who you want to go for. Maybe they'll respond back...maybe not. if not, next.
    KISS
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Derwood

    Derwood Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    WARNING.....GENERALIZATION INCOMING

    I think there is a double standard around body shapes and how they are viewed/expected to be viewed. (Many) women like to chastise men, saying they should love women's curves and shouldn't expect Victoria's Secret model bodies, but how many of them are attracted to men with love handles or pot bellies? How many are attracted to shorter men, skinnier men, hairier men? At what point do we point out the hypocrisy?
     
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  6. Cayvmann

    Cayvmann Very Tilted

    I have read in a few articles that women actually prefer a man with a slight pot belly ( not hugely fat ) to the 6-pack abs sporting types. Don't know if I believe it completely, but the woman is supposed to be the pretty one, so YMMV.
     
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  7. Herculite

    Herculite Very Tilted

    I think the issue there is that its LTR vrs sexual attraction. I brought this up a bit in another thread but the problem with the guy and the hot body isn't that the women were not attracted to him, but that they assumed he wouldn't be faithful to them. He's to good. Basically if you put that much work into your body, there is a reason and that reason is to be attractive to get laid more. They may well be right on this, they would be in my case, and I don't even quite have the six pack.

    So for them a good but not perfect body guy is more secure. To be fair I think a lot of guys go the same way with women. They would rather their wife be a little fat so they are less attractive to guys and don't get hit on.

    Basically insecurity is huge out there. Back when I got into shape I was on a few exercise boards, and constantly a spouse would complain that their SO was trying to sabotage their progress. Hell on women's magazines its one of those "signs he's cheating".
     
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  8. Lindy

    Lindy Moderator Staff Member

    Location:
    Nebraska
    Double standard definitely. Are men incapable of seeing the irony in the pot-bellied redneck with the "NO FAT CHICKS" bumper sticker on his pickup? And it's always a pickup. I've never seen that sticker on a minivan.

    OTOH, more than a few women like to use the term curvy as a euphemism for just plain fat.

    I don't mind a little "prosperity" showing on a guys body, but agility starts to suffer as weight builds. My BF is 5' 9" which is by no means tall, but just about right for my 5' 1" body. No six pack, but a nice flat belly and a gymnast's upper body. I don't care if he can't bench press a Toyota Corolla, he's plenty strong enough for everyday work and play, and can do monkey bars all day at age 50.

    Some men come of as ugly because of fashion and laziness. It may be just me, but I thing whisker stubble is ugly. A beard, OK, clean-shaven, OK. Three day's growth, not OK. And a grown man wearing cargo shorts and flip-flops in the winter? Uffda!
     
  9. Herculite

    Herculite Very Tilted

    I like clean shaven for myself, but my wife thinks I look best at 2 days stubble and I have a play partner who wishes I had a beard or at least stubble. Men can't win on facial hair.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1