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Politics Communism, Capitalism, and the Pope

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by Baraka_Guru, Nov 27, 2013.

  1. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    What do you make of this?

    Pope Francis seems to be winning over unlikely folks (atheists) while creating controversy and garnering criticism from other unlikely folks (conservative Christians).

    Now he's done it again. This time he's targeted capitalism. This marks a shift in the Vatican from opposing communism in the 20th century. In general, Francis sees a need for government regulation of capitalism.

    General criticisms of the Catholic Church aside (i.e., facile "et tu quoque" counterarguments), what do you think about the Vatican's position? Do you think it will influence Catholics worldwide? In the U.S. and Europe? Will it also influence other religions and denominations? Will it influence secular society?

    Is the Catholic Church still significant? Are Francis' positions coming from the heart, or is this PR for Catholicism? Some have suggested that the Church is in decline, but others point out that this isn't so. Either way, the Catholic population is strong, especially in the Americas and Europe. When you include the rest of Christianity, there are a lot of people out there who could be influenced by his words.

    What do you think?

    Do you think capitalism is a problem today to any extent resembling the problems that communism posed in the 20th century?

    I think it poses serious problems, but there are both similar and different problems when compared to communism. The power makeup is different, but many of the ill effects are the same in that it has serious social ramifications, although the distribution of the effects are more far-reaching (i.e., global instead of national).

    Despite Pope Francis being a religious leader, I think it will be a good thing to open these issues up to discussion (and inevitable debate). I think if you take the last ten years into account (and we can go even further than that), it's difficult to accept that it should be business as usual.

    I don't hide the fact that I'm a social democrat, so I sympathize with much of what Francis says. I will also point out that, compared to previous popes, he is politically more in line with the Dalai Lama, who's an unabashed Marxist.

    What does it say when religious leaders—the supposed authorities on ethics and morality—speak out against capitalism, which so many see as a virtue in and of itself?

    The Vatican's Journey From Anti-Communism to Anti-Capitalism - Emma Green - The Atlantic
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  2. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    I personally think he's emphasizing the imbalances in the environ...than promoting any specific system.

    If any of them addressed the poor, the growing gap and the lack of opportunity...then I think he'd be good with it.
     
  3. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    That's the thing. He's not saying, "Hey, we should convert capitalism to socialism." He's criticizing unfettered capitalism in light of its impact on the poor. He's warning us against worshipping markets while millions suffer. He's suggesting that the power of capitalism be mitigated by the power of government to support the people. In other words, he's arguing for a more mixed economy not unlike social democratic government.
     
  4. snowy

    snowy so kawaii Staff Member

    Half of the family I married into is Catholic, and I attended the Catholic Church semi-regularly in my early college days, so I have a pretty strong connection to the Church despite not being Catholic myself. Every Catholic I know is very enthusiastic about the new pope, as he is saying things they've wanted to hear for a long time. I know I'm impressed because his arguments hew more towards the ideal of Christian love that I've come to understand.

    Being a Christian is not about, "Well, I've got mine, so screw you." It's about reaching out a helping hand. The fundamental problem with capitalism is that it is an economic system built on the ideal of the above--there's little incentive to help your fellow man, or to run a company whose goal is to help others. In that light, the Pope's comments about capitalism and its ill effects on the marginalized in this world make a lot of sense.

    I know a lot of what's happened during the Great Recession has caused churches to be pushed to their limits; we've taken on the role of a social safety net in many cases, because our social safety net is so thin. I'm active in ministry, and I see how much we can do with so little to help other people. It would be lovely if that would happen elsewhere in society.
     
  5. snowy

    snowy so kawaii Staff Member

    Pope Francis named Time magazine person of the year for 2013
    from: Pope Francis named Time magazine person of the year for 2013 | World news | theguardian.com
    I agree with Time's choice. One of the things Pope Francis is reminding Christians is that the bigger picture is important. Instead of focusing on small, divisive issues, let's focus on what is central to Christianity: compassion, caring for others, helping others, and Christian love. Honestly, I hope that this marks a change in ministry, and perhaps attracts people to a new breed of ministry that is not altogether that new, but often overshadowed by other things.
     
  6. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I think it was a good choice, considering Francis has Christians rebuking him and atheists praising him, and all for acting like a Christian should.
     
  7. Indigo Kid

    Indigo Kid Getting Tilted

    I like this new Pope. And I'm not Catholic and never thought the Popes ever had any positive influence in the World at large.

    Pope Francis seems to really "get it". How novel and hopeful in this crazy spiral down world.