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Complaining and Bitching About Guns

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by MrMD069, Feb 18, 2018.

  1. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    I've read a number of posts by gun owners saying that they would be happy to sell their AR15s to be scrapped.
    If the government wanted to do a buy back like Australia did, I suspect that would work very well in terms of getting a lot of them off the street.
    Turn the damned things into statues to commemorate all the dead kids from Sandy Hook on.
  2. Stan

    Stan Resident Dumbass Donor

  3. Lindy

    Lindy Very Tilted Donor

    I used "panacea" because that seems to be the first and most suggested "solution" to mass shooting.

    Association is not causation. How about the preceding 20 years when their were no controls on assault weapons?

    Confusing possibly deceptive graphic. Are 1994 incidents/deaths counted in the first grouping (1984-1994) or the second (1994-2004)? How about 2004? Second group or third?

    Is the graphic designed to push an agenda? Or is it just sloppiness?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Foggy Bottom
    The first and most suggested "solution" is probably universal background checks and closing the gun show loophole that has overwhelming public support but opposed by NRA.

    Of course, the graphic by itself does not prove causation, might be deceptive and designed to push an agenda. Much like everything published by the NRA.

    You probably wont like this graphic either:


    The vast majority of mass shootings(depending on definition) in the US have occurred after the the federal assault weapons ban was not renewed when it expired in 2004. Again, no direct causation, just common sense IMO to attempt to remove the most deadly weapon responsible for the majority of mass shootings as part of a comprehensive multi-disciplinary approach.

    I dont expect such a ban or even a ban on high capacity magazines. I dont even expect Congress will raise the age for buying a AR-15 (and related) to 21, the same as for buying a handgun. But again, IMO, these would all be reasonable and practical considerations as part of a broad public policy.

    As the US Supreme Court has made clear, Second Amendment rights are not absolute and reasonable restrictions are not an infringement.

    One cannot address the gun violence problem with mental health "solutions" or school safety solutions alone; reducing firearm violence also requires solutions addressing access to firearms, requirements for improving safety of firearms, far more research (still restricted) on gun violence and other issues directly related to the weapons themselves.

    BTW, it was nice to see Walmart act following on the heels of Dick's Sporting Goods.

    Walmart Statement on Firearms Policy

    In light of recent events, we’ve taken an opportunity to review our policy on firearm sales. Going forward, we are raising the age restriction for purchase of firearms and ammunition to 21 years of age. We will update our processes as quickly as possible to implement this change.

    In 2015, Walmart ended sales of modern sporting rifles, including the AR-15. We also do not sell handguns, except in Alaska where we feel we should continue to offer them to our customers. Additionally, we do not sell bump stocks, high-capacity magazines and similar accessories. We have a process to monitor our eCommerce marketplace and ensure our policies are applied.

    We take seriously our obligation to be a responsible seller of firearms and go beyond Federal law by requiring customers to pass a background check before purchasing any firearm. The law would allow the sale of a firearm if no response to a background check request has been received within three business days, but our policy prohibits the sale until an approval is given.

    We are also removing items from our website resembling assault-style rifles, including nonlethal airsoft guns and toys. Our heritage as a company has always been in serving sportsmen and hunters, and we will continue to do so in a responsible way.
    Part of the solution is also more corporate responsibility as we are starting to see.

    • Like Like x 1
  5. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & don't criticize.

    Large City, TX
    Redux, your well thought out post has at least one clear issue (IMO),
    it focuses nearly entirely on firearms,
    not the small number of people who misuse them.

    I completely disagree. No number of 'improved safeties' will make firearms 'safe/safer' from people determined to use them to shoot other people.


    Age requirements sound good in theory.

    If we're going down that road, why not make the age limit 25? IIRC many studies show that the human mind doesn't fully develop (an arbitrary term) until around age 25. BTW/FTR I'm simply mentioning this, I do not support this idea.

    In the USA we tell 18 year olds that they could subject to being involuntarily drafted into the military.
    And now some people want laws restricting them from purchasing firearms.
    That doesn't sound like a democracy to me.


    I've never understood the fascination that some people have with the military style assault weapons, but I'm not willing to restrict their rights to own such weapons. I speak of semi-autos; I see no reason for citizens to own fully automatic weapons even if they have to jump through many hoops to get a permit.
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
  6. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Foggy Bottom
    In this case, I am talking mostly about firearm deaths and injuries (mostly accidental) of and by children as a result of access to a gun in the home. Thousands of deaths and injuries a year that are easily preventable with better gun safety and technology applications.

    To some lesser extent, the same applies to the thousands of gun suicides ever year by minors.


    My issue is the double standards: 18 for long guns (including AR-15), 21 for handguns

    (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
    (1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;
    If 21 is "reasonable" age requirement for handguns, why not for all firearms?


    I dont agree that owning "military style assault weapons" is a right. To-date, the US Supreme Court is of the same opinion, choosing not to intercede in the Maryland assault weapons ban.

    U.S. top court spurns challenge to Maryland assault weapons ban

    Again, I am not suggesting that gun control alone is the solution but simply that reasonable measures to improve gun safety and restrict gun access should be considered as part of a comprehensive multi-disciplinary approach.
  7. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Foggy Bottom
    More on "preventable" (IMO) firearms deaths and injuries of and by children:


  8. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & don't criticize.

    Large City, TX
    I know many gun owners. Much of this has to do with growing up with guns in the house, living in Texas, and spending a lot of time in Oklahoma. TX and OK are two states with lax (an arbitrary term with negative connotations in this context) gun laws. The guns cover a wide range, from rifles to shotguns to handguns to assault style weapons. We own a variety of firearms, excluding shotguns and assault rifles.

    Of that large group, there are very few people I consider questionable. What's interesting is the members of that small group of "questionable" gun owners are over 21 years old.

    Obviously the above is personal experience, and does not apply to all people in all situations.


    We can legislate stricter gun laws, better mental health care, more school counselors, etc.

    What we can't legislate is personal responsibility.
  9. SirLance

    SirLance Death Therapist

    Yay for Dick's, I hope they actually do it this time. They promised the same after Sandy Hook but didn't follow through.

    We need congress to pass reform, but congress couldn't agree on the color of the sky if they had to.

    I no longer own firearms, but as a former (and probably future) gun owner, I think we need to implement universal background checks (at gun shows too), a minimum age requirement of 21, and a requirement (with appropriate funding) to maintain a reliable database that includes mental health and police contact information.

    I don't favor bans, but rather stricter (WAY stricter) regulation and control over assault weapons and high-capacity mags. I'm a trained operator and I think these would be sensible restrictions that wouldn't trample anybody's rights but would ensure such things wouldn't fall into the hands of unstable people. Like, a full-on BI and if you fuck up and your kid gets hold of it your ass goes to jail.
  10. POPEYE

    POPEYE Very Tilted Donor

    A blanket law doesn't fix anything. Guns and the wide variety of them are tools. We have to ask ourselves " what am I going to use this tool for?"
    Long range hunting, wild hogs or deer here in my area, I don't want to get close enough to a ferrel boar to knife fight while he chews my leg off. And this is a real problem here. Deer run, we are over populated.
    There are several species I need a rifle and scope for.
    Hand guns for snakes and varmits.
    I've been a gun ( not weapon ) owner since my grandpa and Dad took me hunting and fishing as a child. Wanted to teach me where food came from and how to acquire it while protecting myself from water moccasins.
    Further AR 15s and other like them are not tools for civilian use or survival. Honestly most men I know that actually hunt own 20 more or less of different guns and untold ammo.
    The discussion of shooting a man did come up and it was agreed they had to threaten mortally our family.
    Everthing has a place. Not just guns but any life taking tool needs to be kept from the mentally ill. We have talked about that as well. Not one person I know objects to a long history back ground and mental fitness exam. If it takes two weeks to get the gun or bow you want thats OKAY.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Foggy Bottom
    The NRA objects to expanded (or universal) background checks and, if the NRA opposes, many Republican members of Congress will oppose for fear of losing their NRA "A" rating.
  12. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Foggy Bottom

    There are now 624 events across the US and around the world where, on March 24, the kids and families of March For Our Lives will take to the streets to demand that their lives and safety become a priority, and that we end gun violence in our schools and communities.

    March for Our Lives
    • Like Like x 1
  13. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Foggy Bottom
    This is an interesting article in Science News about what we know and dont know about how to prevent gun violence.

    I agree that we dont know enough on what policies might work to prevent mass shootings. I also agree that we do know enough to implement policies that could deter some forms of gun violence. (see #1-7 below - gun violence among children, suicides, as a result of concealed carry/stand your ground)

    What we do and don’t know about how to prevent gun violence
    Which is why my focus has never been solely on mass shootings but on the larger issue of gun violence that is a leading cause of preventable death and injury.
    • Like Like x 1