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Computer/tech hardware lifecycles

Discussion in 'Tilted Gear' started by Baraka_Guru, Jun 19, 2012.

  1. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    It's not really so much a chore. It's actually a fast install and quite different than XP, 2k, and Win98, Win95, and Win3.11. Those were chores, Win7 is a walk in the park as it pretty much is set it and forget it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Zweiblumen

    Zweiblumen Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Iceland
    When installing from an USB thumbdrive it usually takes about 20 min.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Jove

    Jove Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Michigan
    In a work environment, I only change out the hardware if it fails or is no longer compatible with the custom nursing software. My current place of employment had workstations running Windows 2000 until six months ago when the custom nursing application updated their software and mentioned that it will no longer work on Windows 2000.

    Personally, I want to buy the latest gadget/workstation/laptop, but I don't need it since my current setup is working fine.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. martian

    martian Server Monkey Staff Member

    Location:
    Mars

    Windows 7 Professional is available on newegg.ca for $139 plus shipping and taxes. I believe they're actually selling system builder's copies (or were when I bought mine at least) which means that technically you're contravening the terms of sale if you use it for an upgrade, but Microsoft is not about to break down your door for that.

    As far as your system and the hard drive issue, the answer is a qualified yes. It's true that hard drives are typically the slowest-performing components in a modern PC, but developers are well aware of their limitations and do everything possible to design around them. I strongly disagree with the assertion that "A high performance CPU and memory will often spend most of their time waiting for data from hd." It's simply not true in my experience -- most high-performance applications will make extensive use of pre-caching to help alleviate the issue, so it's really only the ones that frequently need to read/write to disk (database servers, for example) that are hindered by that.

    Having said that, a faster hard drive can dramatically increase load times, and will also help if you're often dipping into swap. If you are frequently dipping into swap, however, your money is better spent on more RAM.

    A 32 bit operating system obviously only has a 32 bit memory address table. This means there are ~4.3 billion possible addresses, and some of those are reserved for other uses, so that's why you're limited to ~3 GB RAM on a 32 bit system. There are actually ways to get around this limitation within a 32 bit architecture, but they're extremely uncommon in the consumer sphere, and they're becoming much more rare in the professional world as well as 64 bit architecture becomes more common (64 bit memory addressing provides address space for something like 18.4 exabytes of memory, so that should hold us for a good long while). Your Core2Quad (Q6600, right?) is a couple of generations behind but should still be plenty fast enough for your applications, and your video card is good, so as far as gaming performance goes an upgrade to your RAM will net you pretty substantial performance gains I imagine. You could move up to 4 GB, but for the price of RAM right now I'd say make it 8 personally. Between that and Windows 7 it's going to feel like a whole new machine, for all of about $200.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2012
  5. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    My system maxes out at 4 GB RAM. I believe I currently have two 1 GB modules installed.

    According to Dell, the slots will take 512 MB, 1 GB, or 2 GB modules, maxing out at 4 GB. It specifies 667-MHz, 800-MHz DDR2 SDRAM.

    So I could get either two 1 GB modules for the remaining slots, or one 2 GB module for one of the remaining slots.

    Does that make sense?

    This is the thing. If I do a reinstall, I'd prefer to go from a Win7 install. My Vista install will basically be a system restore with all the Dell bloat. That is if I even know where the disc is... Ugh....
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
  6. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    4 slots, I think I have some of that memory hanging around my apartment. I'll look.
    --- merged: Jun 25, 2012 at 1:09 PM ---
    right no, restore disks are horrific IMHO. That's a chore, more like trying to poke your eyes out with red hot pokers.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2012
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  7. Zweiblumen

    Zweiblumen Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Iceland
    If the motherboard supports dual-channel (would be surprised if it didn't) then it's optimal to have the memory in pairs.
    To really benefit from the 64 bit versions of Windows you need more than 4 GB ram, and in a system this old getting drivers could be a problem. I have noticed that people don't want to talk about the driver problems with 64 bit Windows and in reality many "normal" users would be better of with Win7 32 bit rather than the 64 bit that came pre-installed on their machine. The number of 32 bit processes (applications/drivers) running by the "normal" user is surprising.
     
  8. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Here's to serendipity!

    Maybe that's why I haven't done this yet. I don't think I've ever had a stand-alone Windows OS. I've always had the restore disks from the manufacturer. :(
     
  9. highjinx

    highjinx "My phobia drowned while i was gettin' down."

    Location:
    venice beach
    it's not the re-install thats so bad for me; it's the re-loading all my games and programs and then patching them thats the major pain in the ass.
     
  10. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    It's why I enjoy my games to be on Steam or downloadable clients like Blizzard's Battle.net.

    If MS would have some sort of app store like the Mac App store, I'd maybe inclined to use it since I don't have to do much but kick of the process and let it do it's thing.

    I've grown to loathe using physical media like CD/DVDs.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. highjinx

    highjinx "My phobia drowned while i was gettin' down."

    Location:
    venice beach
    i use steam as well, but even with fios, the installs and updates for my game collection can take 2 or 3 days. but it's programs too... all the little maintenance things and tools i use. i have to find them online and download and install them again which i can't let the computer do itself. i have to babysit it.
     
  12. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    Agreed. Once I've gotten to a stable point, I've set a restore point or image of the drive so that next "reinstall" I'm just putting this image back into place.
     
  13. Typically, I like to stay a generation behind on technology (about 6 months hardware, 1 service pack Microsoft software) when I go for new purchases. Reason / rationale: Stability. I can't stand bugs getting in my way. As far as hardware goes, it tends to lower costs a bit, and allow me to get something stable & powerful for the same price I would pay for something brand-spanking-new, but less of it. I am, however, considering splurging on a couple of (quad) Core i7 sockets and a MB that'll take 4 sockets (but only 2 to start... shit's expensive). ECC, the works. (MO POW-AH!)

    I am however, running Windows 8 & Visual Studio 11 on a box right now, prepping packages I'm building in VS 2010 for the next gen of mobile when we'll have our first generation of mobile management applications out. (And Windows 8 is not playing nice w/ Apple dev stuff, let alone the typical Android VM woes.)

    Sorry, y'all, as much as I admire the Steam engine... I'm not a game programmer or player :/
     
  14. Shadowex3

    Shadowex3 Very Tilted

    I'm a whole page behind so I'll do this rapidfire to catch up:

    Harddrives make the biggest difference in booting up and the first time you load something, and when moving big files around. outside of that you're probably not going to notice it's there too much and if you do it means you desperately need more RAM.

    I've NEVER had this problem and I went straight to win7 x64 from 32bit XP. I haven't heard from anyone else even anecdotally that win7 x64's misbehaved when they decided to grab the 32bit version of something for want of a 64bit one. The memory cap difference alone is worth it imho, and i'm personally comfortable calling it Strictly Better at this point.

    Now you're speaking my language. My mother always taught me never get the first generation or highest end of anything, always give them a chance to work the kinks out first and go for the ideal price/performance point instead of going straight to the top.
     
  15. Speed_Gibson

    Speed_Gibson Hacking the Gibson

    Location:
    Wolf 359
    My computers are generally more the "dull edge" of things rather cutting edge. It has worked for me so far, but I would invest in newer things if the need arose. It took me until 2009 to even get SATA and that kind of upgrade cycle will probably continue.
    I did benefit from waiting that long to upgrade from WinXP to Vista, as I seem to have gotten the version that worked most of the annoyances out of it that people complained about.
     
  16. Zweiblumen

    Zweiblumen Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Iceland
    You have been lucky, I have seen a new (big brand) laptop where few of the built-in devices didn't work because there aren't any drivers available that will work in Win7 x64 for those devices.
    An other notorious scenario is network connected HP printers ( not shared via server), we see about 25%-50% chance of success when printing something else than clear text file.
    Boiled down I just saying that the "edge" can give some people problems and it's not always the best option.
    From Shadowex3 and Martins posts it apparent that I'm more disk intensive than the normal user since I experience the disk being a limiting factor on regular basis.
     
  17. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Would it work if I just dropped in a 1 GB module in one of the two remaining spots? If Vista only recognizes 3 GB max, then would that work?

    Also, do I need to match the clock speed of the new module with the existing ones (667 MHz vs. 800 MHz)? Or does that only matter with pairing?

    I'm realizing that I can get at least 50% more RAM for as little as $20. I don't know why I didn't do this sooner. I guess I didn't know this RAM was that cheap.
     
  18. Zweiblumen

    Zweiblumen Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Iceland
    It's hard to tell, it really depends on the motherboard, I'm leaning towards that you will need 2 modules. Most motherboards will switch the memory down to the speed of the slowest module installed, therefore it's probable best to match the current modules. Getting 2 x 1 GB modules might be worth it even if in Vista (or any 32 bit Windows) there will be only 3 GB available.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. highjinx

    highjinx "My phobia drowned while i was gettin' down."

    Location:
    venice beach
    if you really want to open things up, get a solid state drive. you don't need a big one; just enough to put windows onto. you can put your programs on a seperate hd.

    ssd's are getting pretty reasonable in price now; you can usually get a deal for about a buck a gb.
     
  20. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I'd probably just match my other RAM by putting in two 1 GB 800 MHz modules just to be safe. That would max me out at 4 GB. I know Vista won't recognize all the new RAM, but from what I've read, it will use most of it. I figure that it would be a <$50 upgrade for one last extension of this system's lifecycle (and forgoing the nearly $200 on Windows 7).

    That is, assuming that cynthetiq doesn't have similar modules kicking around his place.

    With the age of my hardware, I want to avoid spending too much on an upgrade. This is partly why I'm reluctant to go to Windows 7.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2012