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Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by rogue49, Feb 28, 2020.

  1. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    U.S. Health Officials Question AstraZeneca Vaccine Trial Results

    My mother used to do trials extensively and said something seems strange in the pattern.
    I've been involved with them too...and even did research for FDA approvals.

    This seems more than just slipups and missteps.

    Plus we're talking about a difference of 79% versus 74% (it's not they all of a sudden said it was 90 like the others...)
    Even if it's outdated...it's still legit and they can request more updated and recent data.

    It's bad side effects and issues we should be looking for.
    Not quibbling about a few percentage points.

    Frankly, I'm skeptical of all of them...we tested these all incredibly fast.
    I would like to see REAL and current data for all...we've already distributed and had millions shot.
    We should see real results...NOW.

    But they keep harping on the AZ. (not Russia's, not China's...not any other issue for any other, which surprised me)

    I've seen this before, the press focuses on one thing ignoring others.
    And what I meant by "insidious" was the incredible manipulations that players in the pharma game do to push to get their agenda through...to support or hinder a drug.

    Frankly, I don't trust AZ...but I don't trust any of them.
    There's just too much $$$ riding on this. (global scale sales)

    I think they should ride and focus on all of them...even the new J&J. (which just jumped up to the top of the pack)

    It's just strange the pattern I'm seeing.
    Then again, the news always does like a horserace and black sheep.
    "sharply worded" :rolleyes:
    I read that brief statement...that's not sharply worded.

    You get newer data, move on.
    But older data is legit too.
    It either works or it doesn't
    It creates side-effects or it doesn't
    No matter the time.

    Make you a bet it's a much to do about nothing in the long run.
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
  2. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & don't criticize.

    Large City, TX
    AZ's stumbles might prove to be small missteps (basically a worthy product very poorly presented) but that doesn't change the fact they should've brought in some experienced vaccination experts.
    • Like Like x 1
  3. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Where ever I roam
    I do wonder why there isn't a real life efficacy number that keeps getting updated. The unvaccinated general public is the control group, and the number of symptomatic cases in the vaccinated group gets compared to the number in the general public. Then every vaccine is compared at the same time, and against the same variants. Plus you will have people who are very extreme in their prevention not throwing off the scale based on some bad luck in one vaccine trial getting fewer of them in the vaccinated group.

    Anyways, only one more day until I get vaccinated and can start seeing the end of this impacting me.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Because that would make too much sense.
    Could easily have surveys after the fact...you'll get enough of a response.
    Could even ask all to come back in to check on status. (again, you'll get enough of a response)
    And make sure you do it for ALL antivax versions. (and don't let the companies do it, to prevent conflict of interest)

    Meanwhile, I was FINALLY able to pre-register.
    Each state is doing varying levels of efficiency.
    And it has nothing to do with Red state/Blue State either (because OK and WV is excellent...while MD and MA is making it a pain :confused:)
    • Like Like x 1
  5. fflowley

    fflowley Don't just do something, stand there!

    I can assure you none of this is as easy as you think it ought to be. Some it isn't even possible, and it certainly wouldn't be scientifically valid.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Considering the unprecedented situation
    And the fact that it’s global, most will be given the drugs
    Don’t you think we can come up something beyond the typical study???

    Normally, a study entails control groups, blinds, specific measures and so on.

    Here there's a different circumstance
    First, no one is trying for approval, it’s out there.
    Second, what we’re gunning for here is no specifics or precision

    They’re putting this out en masse, in incredible volumes
    We have Internet that we can leverage

    I say, let go of the details that we typically and rightly get caught up in.

    Just go for raw responses
    something to get back in large numbers

    It would be invaluable to find out as much as we can.

    Perhaps we’d come up with different methods and techniques that can be used whenever any pandemic occurs

    Half our problem has been we’ve been acting as usual during this unusual time.
    Necessity is the mother of invention

    We got these out in a fraction of the normal time
    We showed it could be done.
    Now it’s time to get some feedback, at the same speed and volume.

    Companies are surveying like crazy these days to get some idea how to market and what to sell.

    We can leverage these techniques and technologies to find out how effective the drugs are, find out effects on a broader scale than studies or doctors/hospitals.
    For more precision or validation, we can ask people to come in for testing or evaluation.

    I think it’s time to think outside the box.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 26, 2021 ---
    What The Heck Is Going On With AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 Vaccine?

    Here's nice little podcast from 538...it goes into the weirdness and back & forth of the AZ/Oxford saga.
    I still say it's even weirder than that.

    Nothing is wrong or bad with it...just miscommunication and misperceptions.

    While the US may not need it (it's already factoring in dealing with a glut...even without the J&J)
    The rest of the world will likely make use of it.

    Strange things are afoot.

    And we're starting to cycle up again...starting with New York and New Jersey (not like last year...but increases aren't good)
    And the variants are getting about...and we're reopening and going maskless too quick.
    We are a glutton for punishment. :oops:

    And now they're starting to worry that the younger people aren't getting the antivax quick enough, because of the staggered strategy...now they are scaling up.

    Frankly, I think we're getting out quicker than anyone expected.
    But let's cross our fingers and toes that it takes care of any variant...and compensates enough for our own stupidity.

    We have to do this better.
    Next time there may not be a next time. :eek:
    • Like Like x 1
  7. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Pfizer, Moderna vaccines 90 percent effective in preventing coronavirus infections in U.S. study of essential workers, CDC says — The Washington Post

    Now THIS is what they should do.
    Find out what it is in reality live now.

    At least the healthcare workers are disciplined and aware enough to respond consistently to any survey and Followup.

    Doing this out in the typical public will be like herding cats. Or dealing with toddlers.
    But still should get enough to find out real results with less conflict of interest.

    Still 90% isn’t the original 95%
    But I don’t hear any hub bub about it.

    It’s reality and stats, 5% is a error margin
    Even 10% is marginal, with the pace we’re doing

    I do hope new methods and techniques and testing protocols come out of this.
    It’s a whole new world
    • Agree Agree x 3
  8. fflowley

    fflowley Don't just do something, stand there!

    Yes, I came to post this same article.
    If that's the kind of data you are looking for have no fear there's tons of it being collected and analyzed.
    • Like Like x 2
  9. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    • Like Like x 1
  10. MrMD069

    MrMD069 Very Tilted

    I have an appointment for the J&J vaccine on Wednesday. One and done, until the next one. :rolleyes:
    • Like Like x 3
  11. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    'Repeating the same exact mistakes': Bar linked to COVID-19 outbreak resulting in 46 cases, 650 kids sent home from school

    Yep, exactly.
    And it will keep happening because a certain segment of society is in denial
    And has been and is being encouraged to do it by some that have an agenda.

    The mindset and messaging has been inconsistent since the beginning a all levels.

    And now, we're a swiss cheese of people who often do NOT do the right thing.

    Political division is dangerously defining our COVID-19 conversation
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. MrMD069

    MrMD069 Very Tilted

    Got the J&J vaccine this morning. One and done, until the next one. :rolleyes:
    • Like Like x 3
  13. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    I just got mine schedule for this weekend.
    • Like Like x 2
  14. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Got my second one today. Pizer
    Feeling good.
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. MrMD069

    MrMD069 Very Tilted

    So, other than a headache yesterday (now gone) and some minor arm pain at the shot site and a little tiredness, I'm doing okay. We'll see how tomorrow goes, as I've read it's usually the second or third day you get symptoms after the J&J vaccine.

    Interesting that the headache was the first symptom. It was the same after my dad visited in early 2020. In my mind, it confirms my theory that I had it back then. But then, I'm no scientist, just a college dropout, but, I do read a lot, so I have that going for me.

    What were we talking about again?
    • Like Like x 2
  16. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Nearly 20 percent of the U.S. population is fully vaccinated. Many countries may not hit that target this year.

    Europe's COVID vaccine fiasco continues

    It's not a race...but it is.
    Or let's say it's not a competition...but they do compare.

    Meaning, they all have to race to get it done...for the good of their nations and the people.
    Some comparison is good...to see how you're doing and to see where the holes may be. (or here legitimately copy a method)
    Whatever makes it better for your people.

    But, there is something to be said for $$$
    Some nations have the resources to make things happen faster. (pre-purchasing, staffing, health equipment, etc)

    As long as there's no stealing of resources from other nations...then, there should be no shame in leveraging your advantages.
    Are you saying they don't take advantage of ANY resource?? But of course they do. They should.

    This presses politicians and people to improve their nations.
    Question...including the rich nations...what ARE you going to do for the NEXT virus???

    No such thing as fair. Ask Mother Nature. she's a ruthless sort at times.

    Let's just hope ALL nations figure out the best manner to get it done...and do it FAST.
    Actually, we're doing it faster and better than before. As chaotic as it seems, it's better for most nations. (ones like Brazil are screwed)
    Think about the scale and newness...that's significant.
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
  17. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

  18. MrMD069

    MrMD069 Very Tilted

    48+ hours later and I'm all good. No headache, no body aches, no sore muscles, no being tired. I think (hope) I'm good.
    • Like Like x 4
  19. boink

    boink Getting Tilted

    I thought it was that new recreational drug out of Reed college.
    • Funny Funny x 2
  20. omega

    omega Very Tilted

    First vaccine tomorrow morning. Second scheduled for may 10. So excited. They won't let me shoot my self though. I have been doing my quads for my anabolics the past months, because you shouldn't shove more than a cc in the shoulder. With thrice weekly injections of a little over 2 ccs, I need the greater surface area of the quads. Most people probably don't volunteer to jab themselves though.
    • Like Like x 2