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Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by rogue49, Feb 28, 2020.

  1. kramus

    kramus what I might see

    I read a Quora answer to the question how C19 is impacting folks by a European small businessman who is healthy yet seriously affected. He wrote on Saturday March 21/20. Basically, as he puts it, life is scary and uncertain and very f*ing serious. Ontario is a few days behind in impact to where he is in Czechoslovakia, but we are due and past due.
    Lance LaSalle's answer to How has the coronavirus affected you? - Quora
    I’m in Toronto. My Lady is working from home except when necessary. She’s been very involved in designing C19 response for the medical community here in Toronto. The tsunami hasn’t actually hit us here yet when talking purely about the medical burden of sick people crushing health resources. But it is coming (her test result is negative thankfully, but friends are sick). Family members are jobless.
    We are circling the wagons. Things are going to get very weird.
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
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  2. ralphie250

    ralphie250 Fully Erect Donor

    Jonesboro ga
    It just seems like alot of people are not listening and doing what is asked of them.
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  3. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted Donor

    Where ever I roam
    I am on lock down orders from the governor as of an hour ago. Although I have spent about the last 10 days as if it was a airborne disease and haven't gone to the grocery store and only have gone to a few drive-thrus... However, my food supply is probably only 3 weeks worth. So I get to go out to the grocery store later this week and I plan to wear my full face mask and gloves (I had just been wearing gloves earlier in the month when the virus probably wasn't close by).

    Is it overkill? probably. Do I want to risk getting sick and having a miserable April? no.

    They have tested 800 people around here and only a handful have come back positive so far. But there is one positive case a few miles away from me, and who knows who that person came in contact with and where they have been, and who they infected... I guess we might find out in a few days if they keep testing people.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. ralphie250

    ralphie250 Fully Erect Donor

    Jonesboro ga
    i have decided that our governor has no balls. he had a press conference yesterday at 5 and everyone thought he was gonna put the state on lock down and go over essential and non-essential. But.....no he said things that we already knew and only put people on stay at home that are older and /or sick....

    the VW dealer next to us closed yesterday. a salesman tested positive and rumor has it that they will be open today. they said that they would close for the rest of the day for deep cleaning for the customer care.... i never saw anyone their yesterday for that or this morning.

    my best friend works at a dealer about 20 miles from me, and they closed yesterday. A finance guy tested positive and he got the results yesterday. they closed at noon and will not reopen until thursday. he said that they are suposto come in and disinfect the entire dealer today or tomorrow. when you call the messsage says that they are currently closed for deep cleaning so no one gets infected.

    i kinda think thats bullshit. My best friends dealer employes approx 200 people between both dealers (the owner owns 2). now, how many people did he come into contact with? Personal opnion**** kinda feels like the powers that be are greedy and only thinking about money. why not close it for 2 weeks?

    our hours changed as of today, we are open from 8-6 m-f, and 8-5 on sat. not sure why they changed it. but im always the first here so im gonna keep coming in when i normally do.

    i think its only a matter of time before it affects me personally in some way or another.

    i saw where the folks that were at the beach a week ago saying "if i get it, i get it. YOLO" have tsted positive for it. i dont know the number, but i know that some have tested positive. why cant folks do what is being asked of them. its not like its alot.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. ralphie250

    ralphie250 Fully Erect Donor

    Jonesboro ga
    @Borla , @rogue49 or anyone....

    Why did they vote against the coronavirus stimulus package?
  6. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Foggy Bottom
    The first stimulus bill, The Families First Coronavirus Response Act , came out of the House of Representatives last week. It was a bi-partisan bill the Nancy Pelosi negotiated directly with the White House and Treasury Secretary. It focused mostly on addressing the issue of paid sick leave, providing food to kids who got meals at schools, some additional support for unemployment insurance and funding to speed up testing.

    Trump signed it after it passed both the House and Senate with wide bi-partisan support.

    The second bill, now in the Senate, has been negotiated between Mitch McConnell and the White House with little input from Senate Democrats. It focuses mostly on helping businesses, large and small, with tax credit and other provisions. Democrats want more for expanding unemployment insurance for the millions of workers being laid off and want funding for state/local governments so they can maintain essential services.

    But the big sticking point for Senate Democrats is the fact that $500 billion , nearly 1/3 of the overall bill, is what they call a "slush fund "to help "bail out" big businesses like airlines, hotels (including Trump hotels) , etc. and is controlled entirely by the Treasury Secretary with no oversight and little or no criteria on which businesses might be eligible for support and how that is determined.

    A new credit facility run through the Treasury to back $500 billion in collateralized loans and loan guarantees, with $58 billion set aside for airlines and $17 billion earmarked for sectors considered critical to national security. Derided as a "slush fund" by Democrats, the measure would ban stock buybacks and layoffs for loan recipients but with loopholes for buyback arrangements entered into before enactment, and companies would have to avoid layoffs only "to the extent practicable."​

    Unlike the previous bill, this Senate was a partisan bill from the start.

    Both sides need to compromise and stop pointing fingers at each other and get it done. That should happen today.

    But that wont mean the bill goes to Trump to sign. It still must go to the House of Representatives and Nancy Pelosi has an alternative version and more compromises will be required.

    Essentially, the Republican bill focuses more on helping big business and not enough on workers; the Democrat alternative that Pelosi will propose today focuses more on workers and probably not enough on helping big business. The area of agreements are both support significant financial support for small businesses.

    They will come together but unfortunately, both sides will play politics first.


    This just in.....a significant and very helpful concession from the White House on the "slush fund"

    White House agrees to allow oversight of huge coronavirus loan program as $2 trillion Senate deal nears

    The White House has agreed to allow enhanced scrutiny over a massive loan program that is a centerpiece of the Senate’s $2 trillion coronavirus economic package, two people briefed on the discussions said, taking steps to address a major Democratic concern and potentially pave the way for a vote by Tuesday night.

    “I think there is real optimism that we could get something done in the next few hours," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said on CNBC Tuesday morning. The stock market rose sharply in anticipation of the deal, with the Dow Jones industrial average up more than 1,200 points, or nearly 7 percent, at the open.

    The Senate bill would allow the Treasury Department to extend $500 billion in loans and loan guarantees to try and blunt the virus’s economic impact. Of that amount, $425 billion is supposed to go to businesses, cities, and states. Another $50 billion would go to passenger airlines, $8 billion more for cargo airlines, and an additional $17 billion would be directed for firms that are deemed important to national security.

    President Trump has already said where he wants some of the money to go, promising assistance to cruise ship companies, for example, that have operations in Miami. And when he was asked Monday evening who would perform oversight of the program, Trump responded “I’ll be the oversight.”

    But during closed-door negotiations on Capitol Hill, White House officials have agreed to allow an independent inspector general and an oversight board to scrutinize the lending decisions, said the two people, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the status of deliberations.

    This is good. Independent oversight is need not Trump "I'll be the oversight"

    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
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  7. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member Donor

    redux gave a nice and pretty objective summary. Both sides are willing to put a ton of money into this. Trump wants to get money into the hands of everyone. Amounts have been floated around like $1000-1500 for every adult and $600-1000 per kid for any person making less than $75k or couple making less than $150k (adjusted gross income, so the number that you made on your tax return after deductions). There has been talk about a second direct payment in 6-10 weeks that would be similar. The idea is that, even for those that don't completely lose their jobs, they've probably lost a lot economically due to reduced hours, reduced commision/tips, etc., not to mention hits on any investments they might have. But, as redux mentioned, he also wants a lot of money to go towards big businesses, including some that have not managed themselves well. The Democrats have a lot of the same basic ideas, but are directing more of their attention to those who end up actually unemployed due to this situation, and want to direct a bigger piece of the pie to that group. They also want more oversight over how specific pieces of the pie are spent instead of just letting the Treasury Dept spend it however they please.

    It'll be interesting to see what comes of it. For a lot of people a simple pause on mortgages, car payments, student loans, credit card bills, etc. for 60-90 days w/o penalty or interest would help a lot. Some banks and lending companies are offering this already if you ask, others are pausing the payments but not the interest (which may help, but less than also pausing interest).
    • Like Like x 3
  8. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member Donor

    I can guarantee you, that Trump will direct some of the money to HIS wall.

    He’s been blocked from using everything he’s tried for buy all the different checks in the system
    (Congress, courts, etc)

    This way he’ll finally get it, because the crisis is a distraction and an excuse. (“We need it for the Emergency to protect us”)
    Forgetting Mexico has already closed its border.

    Good discussions all, keep it up.

    I’m lurking, not participating
    focusing on my family and work
    Prepping and locking down already.

    And orienting to a whole new city (DC to Knoxville TN - temporarily)
    (Doesn’t help I semi-dislocated my elbow and my dog’s in surgery...life happens while you’re making plans)

    I wish you all the best in the upcoming weirdness.
    Be safe, be well.
    • Like Like x 1
  9. MrMD069

    MrMD069 Slightly Tilted

    Same to you Rogue. Stay safe, be well and hopefully your recoveries are quick.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 24, 2020 ---
    When the under educated and self promoting run the country. Link is safe.


    He DOES understand he's going to kill his voter base, right? Guess the shit's hitting the fan at his resorts.
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  10. Herculite

    Herculite Very Tilted

    Democrats are putting far left shit into the bill and TFP wants to talk about Trump, typical and why I stay off politics here.

    Democrats again block Senate rescue plan; Pelosi unveils $2.5 trillion ‘wish list’

    Fuck off Pelosi, fuck off hard. I'm actually angry about this and I don't get angry easy. Fuck right off you fucking cunt.

    Small business America is fucking dying. Some will not recover if this goes another two weeks. I'm laying off my staff except for three people.
  11. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Foggy Bottom
    No, Democrats are not putting "far left shit" into the bill. The original Senate Republican bill had "far right shit" including funding for abstinence only education, anti-abortion provisions, gutting some regulations, etc.

    It is true Pelosi had an alternative bill that included a "far left" wish list but this is standard Congressional bullshit practiced by both parties (see above "far right shit"). Load a bill up with lots of crap, knowing it will be negotiated down. Pelosi used it as a bargaining chip to get more concessions in the Senate bill and, again, common practice by both sides.

    Democrats have made the Senate bill better by holding out and negotiating more provisions to help working families -- extended unemployment, waiving food stamp requirements, additional funding for hospitals, etc.

    In the end, this latest Senate bill is far better than what would have resulted if Senate Democrats voted for the first version. and Pelosi will bring House Democrats along to support it rather than delay with her original alternative bill.
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
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  12. omega

    omega Very Tilted Donor

    I have noticed that in real debates conservative tend to lose because their actual policies are untenable.
    It was hilarious when you called pelosi a cunt when you don't even understand she was putting silly stuff in so that Republicans can go back to the ignorant voter bases and claim they owned the libtards. They thought they were cutting democrat tenderloin and they ate a bunch of gristle. Meanwhile dems got an independent oversight committee that takes power out of the hands of quintuple bankruptcy ceo and serial sexual abuser don tinyfingers trump and the guy who produced suicide squad, steve munchkin. So yeah, good job there cons. Pelosi was playing chess in dimensions that only ivory tower educated people can even conceive of.
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  13. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    New York City
    Yes. That’s right. People need to understand how to negotiate. You have toss away items so that you can go back and forth giving ground to the other side. You then have a line you don’t cross as it’s your last position that is acceptable.

    It’s classic textbook negotiation.

    View: https://www.amazon.com/Negotiation-Boot-Camp-Conflict-Customers-ebook/dp/B071JJYBZN
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  14. spindles

    spindles Very Tilted

    Sydney, Australia
    It staggers me (and I'm happy to admit I don't fully understand your system of government) that you create laws that include stuff that isn't even nominally related to the original intent of the law.

    At least in Oz when the shit is hitting the fan both sides of politics will actually enact laws for the greater good without all the ridiculous posturing. Australia's "democrat" equivalent complained that it wasn't exactly what he would do, and that is wasn't happening fast enough but voted it through anyway. Both sides here are happy to jump up and down about far right/left shit normally - just don't be a dick if it means people are dying or starving.

    /end politics.

    I saw a video this morning. The doctor on it was taking about infection rates. He said that a person with the "normal" flu infects about 1.3 people. Wih COVID-19, the infection rate is about 3 people. This doesn't seem like much but after 10 "steps" away from the original person the numbers infected are 42 vs over 29000. Added in that a lot of COVID-19 cases don't show a lot of symptoms, and are infectious for several days before showing symptoms, this means that this is going to spread unless we take social distancing and lock down very seriously.

    The numbers of businesses here that have closed and sacked staff is huge. For average workers, who generally don't have a lot of savings and who still have hefty costs, this is an absolute disaster even if they don't get infected.
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  15. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Foggy Bottom
    The Senate announced a final deal on the $2 trillion stimulus bill late last night.

    Negotiators strike deal on massive coronavirus rescue package

    It includes:
    * direct payments to individuals and families with checks of up to $1,200 and $2,400, (from the original bill)

    * $367 billion in federally guaranteed loans for small businesses (from the original bill)

    * strict independent oversight of the $500 billion fund for big businesses (the oversight was not in original bill - Thanks, Nancy! )

    * extended unemployment insurance to four months of full income (much more than in the original bill - Thanks, Nancy!)

    * $242 billion "in additional emergency funding for safety net programs (extended food stamps, etc.) for families facing sudden job loss (much more than in the original bill - Thanks, Nancy!)

    * $130 billion for hospitals (much more than in original bill - Thanks, Nancy!)

    * $50 billion for state and local govts to maintain essential services (not in original bill - Thanks, Nancy!)​

    ... with the significant additions noted that resulted from Democrats NOT signing the first version and Nancy Pelosi (and Chuck Schumer) negotiating directly with the White House.

    The final step is approval of this bill in the House. The hope is to do it with "unanimous consent" but one Republican who thinks it is too big of a bailout or one Democrat who thinks more funding for working families is needed could slow down the vote.


    Another provision to prevent abuse of the stimulus by Trump (to bail out his hotels and golf courses) and members of Congress....

    View: https://twitter.com/BresPolitico/status/1242694844490883078?s=20
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020 at 8:40 AM
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  16. Herculite

    Herculite Very Tilted

    One of my patients owns a small hotel in Wisconsin. They are going broke. I find it funny that the party with millionaires made while IN office is laughably worried about this "abuse". Golf courses are closed as are hotels. If its a fair package it shouldn't matter. The Trump Derangement Syndrome is real.
  17. MrMD069

    MrMD069 Slightly Tilted

    Small businesses NOT included...

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  18. omega

    omega Very Tilted Donor

    Blatant mischaracterization of the bill gets didcussions nowhere. A small hotel is not Trump properties or Boeing or Disney cruise lines. The only real TDS is the people supporting the connan who was convicted of defrauding charities. Give me a hard one. I can do this all day.

    To add, re millionaires. Bil Burr and Loefler using their inside congress info to protect their profits. Don't bother to mention Feinstein who has had a blind trust since 1991. How rich is McConnell now, especially after marrying chicom elaine chao and installing her as transportation secretary with a serious conflict of interest. Donnie and his familly are completely on the take. Jeff Flake ran off with at least 10 million since he got into Congress. Need more?
    • Like Like x 1
  19. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Foggy Bottom
    Are there facts presented that you disagree with as to how the bill evolved from the first version that Senate Democrats rejected to the final version that included protection against abuse by Trump or members of Congress as well as additional provisions and significant funding for working families thanks to the negotiations by Pelosi and Schumer?

    Or the irony of Congressional Republicans and their constant whining about "socialism" and "government dependency" now promoting the largest such bill in history at nearly $2 trillion while many of those same Republicans condemned and voted against Obama's 2009 "much smaller ($875 billion) stimulus" as the country was losing thousands of jobs a week.


    As a reminder, only three Senate Republicans voted for the 2009 American Recovery and Reinvestment Act to respond to the recession and jobs hemorrhaging shortly after Obama took office.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020 at 12:48 PM
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  20. kramus

    kramus what I might see

    I’m giving digital hugs. Peace out all

    • Like Like x 3