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Politics Dark matter and politics

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by Street Pattern, Apr 21, 2015.

  1. Street Pattern

    Street Pattern Very Tilted

    From Slate Star Codex:
    I Can Tolerate Anything Except The Outgroup | Slate Star Codex

    I think this is pretty interesting, and I agree with his analysis.

    However, despite being more liberal than the author of the above, and despite living in a far more liberal city than he does, I do have several in-person friends who believe in creationism, are staunchly opposed to gay marriage, etc.

    One friend of mine (perhaps not a close friend, but we hug when we meet) was arrested while picketing an abortion clinic.

    This sort of friendship across political/ideological lines wasn't at all unusual a generation ago. Maybe it is now.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2015
  2. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    I'm sure I know some conservatives at work and in my extended family. And it is pretty much non-political when it comes to God, gays, and guns. But those are the only people I know who might be on the other side. I'm pretty sure all of my friends have liberal positions on the issues.
     
  3. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    This is dark...on the drought in Cali:

    Christian Host Pretty Sure Hollywood, 'Witchcraft' and Gays Responsible for CA Drought

    This is dark...Christian group digging into family, staff, consults, etc. of Republican candidates to be sure there is no one close to the candidate who may be sympathetic to gay marriage or women's reproductive rights and influence the candidate.

    Christian group 'investigating' family and staff of 2016 candidates to expose gay sympathizers
     
  4. Street Pattern

    Street Pattern Very Tilted

    Are you saying that people on our side should isolate ourselves from the other half of the country?
     
  5. omega

    omega Very Tilted

    Because of my job, I'm probably surrounded by dark matter at work. Fortunately, politics doesn't come up much. Probably because they all think everyone is on the same page. One guy did admit during a firearms training that we tend to do better with democratic politicians, as far as pay,benefits, and pension. I think that was a big admission for him.
    I once heard a deputy say that he target shoots blue balloons because that is the color of united nations helmets. I had to move away from him while he was talking because I didn't want to call him out on his idiocy.
     
  6. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    I dont believe the other half of the country is this extreme. I would hope that this "darkness" be called out for what it is by Republican leaders or Republican candidates.

    McCain was pretty good at calling out the intolerant statements and actions of the Christian far right; Bush had his moments as well.
     
  7. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    Sadly right wing Jews can be a pretty Dark Matter bunch as well.
    You would think that they would have sympathy for people who are mistreated and in the minority but many of them can be incredibly racist.
    I found myself having to bite my tongue in order not to alienate members of Jadzia's family.
    I had a orthodox Rabbi tell me Darwin was wrong, once again I just kept my mouth shut.
    I would over hear conversations where they would talk about how the right wing christian types weren't so bad and I wanted to scream, "Don't you understand those people think you will burn in hell?"
     
  8. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    You should ask him what he thinks Darwin was wrong about. Darwin's theories are subject to debate, even Darwin at certain times questioned some portions of his own work prior to his death. For example in Chapter 6 of Origin of Species Darwin writes:

    The Origin of Species: Chapter 6

    Or, is the "...science settled..." meaning we are done, that there is no longer room to question, explore, seek greater understanding and knowledge. Make me wonder where the real problem is - is it with the religious right or is it with pseudo-intelectuals who think they have all the answers.
     
  9. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    Science is never 'settled', that's why it's science.
    Science is always questioning, always looking for answers, never letting things stand if new information comes along.
    Which is why science and orthodox religion don't get along so well.
    It was clear that the rabbi meant evolution in general.
    There are certainly pieces of Darwin didn't get right but the overall picture is still correct.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Evolution is a scientific theory, creationism is not.
    --- merged: Apr 28, 2015 at 5:34 PM ---
    One is science and belongs in a science (biology) class, one is religion and does not.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2015
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    I have been hearing that the science is settled more and more, it seemed to start with the global warming debate. I have never really understood what that is supposed to mean.

    So, that is settled to? We don't even need to ask the question? Perhaps the rabbi read what Darwin wrote and has specific issues with some of the things he wrote. I would give the rabbi the benefit of the doubt and ask him to elaborate - but I think most here put me in the dark matter category, so what do I know?

    I do not know anyone who disputes that after successive generations of a species, changes can and often occur. The reason they call the Theory of Evolution a theory is because it is in fact a theory. I remember reading an author some time ago, I do not recall the book or the authors name - who questioned the Theory of Evolution in terms of the amount of time required to go from a single cell living organism to the close to 5 million different life forms on the planet. Has there been enough time?
    --- merged: Apr 28, 2015 at 6:28 PM ---
    Creationism is a religious theory and I agree that religious theories are meant for religious studies or social sciences. However, there are scientific limitations to the scientific theory of evolution and the inference that man evolved from, whatever your belief is, is no more scientific than a belief that man was created by God and is separate from science and is religion. When we see evidence of transitional species leading to humans, we can talk further. Otherwise the religion of creation is no better or worse than the religion of evolution -
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2015
  12. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Saying that the science is settled regarding whether global warming is a thing and that humans have an impact on it is not the same thing as saying that the science is settled and that we know everything about global warming.

    Climate change deniers have to ignore swaths of evidence in order to sustain their position.

    To clarify, a scientific theory is an explanation of something based on facts gathered through the scientific method that can be repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation.

    Actually, it's not a religious theory. It's a theological concept. As noted above, theories are explanations of things based on evidence. Actual religious theories would include those such as Karl Marx's or Sigmund Freud's, who had critiques of religion based on actual materialist observations—in other words, evidence.

    This is false because there is enough evidence to support the former (generally that humans have common ancestors with other animals that are not accounted for in the Bible) and absolutely no evidence to support the latter (that humans were created by "the greatest conceivable being").

    Again, we're talking about a difference between a scientific theory and a religious concept. These are quite different from each other.

    We can parse this further if you wish, but it may help if you let us know what you actually mean by "transitional species leading to humans." It's important that you understand how evolution works.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
    • Like Like x 2
  13. omega

    omega Very Tilted

    There is no religion of evolution.
     
  14. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    The deniers of human produced greenhouse gases causing climate disruptions and deniers of evolution/natural selection are the ones that are causing scientists to hold back on questioning little details and bringing up issues to debate. Primarily for fear that the anti-science people will spin their question or concern and use it as a reason to doubt everything. The science is also settled when there are no actual studies, data, or actual physics that can disprove the observed reality. Just because some wealthy donors are making a political party sell out to them, and some TV and radio personalities have an option doesn't bring into question the scientific studies, data, and actual weather events that are happening.
     
  15. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Former Georgia Congressman Paul Broun (MD) who served on the House Science & Technology Committee (before losing in his run for Senate last year):


    And the chief climate change denier in Congress, Senator James Imhofe, Chairman of the Environment and Public Works Committee and whose biggest campaign contributor is the oil industry.

     
  16. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Summary:

    "All that science stuff based on facts is actually a bunch of lies from a place of torment that remains unseen by the living and is described by Christianity (though related to other mythological, folklore, and religious traditions). They're lies to prevent people from being saved by a supposed (i.e., yet unproven) messiah."

    Summary:

    "Human activity can't change the climate. It can deplete the ozone layer, it can cause acid rain, it can degrade and destroy ecosystems, it can create weapons such as a single bomb that generated 50 megatons of energy, but it can't change the climate. Only the Supreme Being in His omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, omnibenevolence, and eternal and necessary existence somewhere 'up there' can do that."
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Speed_Gibson

    Speed_Gibson Hacking the Gibson

    Location:
    Wolf 359
    First thought when I saw this thread title today:
    225px-Dark_Matter.jpg

    On a serious note: I just do not have enough faith to believe in evolution.
     
  18. omega

    omega Very Tilted

    I don't have faith either.
    I HAVE SCIENCE!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Furthermore, evolution doesn't need you to believe in it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Speed_Gibson

    Speed_Gibson Hacking the Gibson

    Location:
    Wolf 359
    I have just as much as science as you do, I just believe in a different origin behind it all. That in no way negates what we can measure, observe, and all of that. Anywho, off to work....Have fun storming the castle! Oh wait.....random Princess Bride quote here 'cause.

    edit: Creationists who reject science are blathering idiots, and deserve scornful looks or perhaps a brick to the side of the head.