Do You Carry Your Gun with a Round in the Chamber?

Pfft, I carry all my bayonet-tipped high capacity tactical assault pistol-rifle kill-guns on LOCKED AND LOADED mode.

I use those heat-seeking hollowpoint bullets that !explode on impact! so I can take out as many bad guys as possible.

Posting in gun threads on TFP makes it pretty difficult for me to feel good about myself. I've hurt so many people.

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The term "misfire" is used incorrectly in the article. A negligent discharge is not a misfire. A misfire is caused by a faulty weapon or ammunition.

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First, some important vocab:

"Loaded" is a term used to describe a weapon with a magazine locked, status of the chamber is unknown. "Charged" is a term used to describe a weapon with a magazine locked and a round in the chamber. Since proper unloading procedure necessitates ejecting the magazine and clearing the chamber, at no point should you have a weapon with a round in the pipe and no magazine during admin operations. The only time I have a round in the pipe and no magazine is when I'm doing a "tactical reload" where I swap in a fresh magazine for a partially expended one to "top up." An "emergency reload" follows when you shoot the weapon dry, not the preferred method since it can happen at the worst possible time.

Not everybody uses this particular terminology on a regular basis, but the two separate terms help differentiate the specific actions of 1. locking a magazine into the gun and 2. chambering a round. This is very useful if you teach classes using step-by-step instruction and aids in verbal troubleshooting. If I tell a student to "charge the weapon again" as a part of a malfunction drill, they know that they don't have to remove the mag.

I don't always use these nerdy tech terms--especially not when talking to laymen--but they are important to know.

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Also: Urban open carry is for obese cowboy dipshits.

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Funny, guns only have a chance of going off if you're fucking around with them when charged. Cooper's famous statuses are great and all, but once you throw in a careless moron with ammo, it doesn't matter if it's Condition 4 or Condition 0... it only takes a quick second to go from cool to fuck-up.

Responsibility'd. Always clear every gun every time. Always treat it as loaded even after you've cleared it. Never point it at anybody.

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Back to the thread:

US Army used something called "Green" (empty) "Amber" (safety, mag in, empty chamber) and "Red" (safety, mag in, charged).

There is no good reason for having a carry piece on "Amber." It only slows you down if you need it.

If you're not comfortable enough to carry a charged weapon, you shouldn't waste time carrying an expensive club.

If you have a weapon positioned for home defense, even more reason: You don't want to announce your presence prematurely.

Some gun owners (those crazy fucks) have dedicated home defense guns, carry guns and training guns. The training guns are used to practice fundamentals and are left unloaded except for when brought out at the range or at a class. The carry guns may be charged all the time or cleared at home. Home defense guns are always charged and positioned with other emergency items such as flashlights, cellphones, gunshot first aid kits, etc.

If you use the AR-15 and Glock platform, for example, you might have two or three of each gun for those purposes. It simplifies training.

If you always clear every gun when you pick it up and you put it back into the correct status for storage, you'll always be safe and ready.

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Many law enforcement agencies have a vehicle storage status for their shoulder weapons; it's "Condition 3" or "Amber."

They do this for storage purposes and to reduce the risk of negligent discharges. It's one way to prevent desk pops.

 

Much like Plan9 said, my self defense guns (glock 19, Daniel Defense AR-15) are kept loaded with a round in the chamber, of course the AR has the safety on. The guns that I do not actively use or train with are stored with an empty chamber and no magazine in them.

From what I have seen, the people who advocate carrying without a round in the chamber have taken very little, if any, training courses. They are also usually overweight and have a large collection of firearms in order to compensate for their lack of gun handling ability and tactics. On the flip though they're usually great at bench rest shooting, which is a super important skill ! Everyone must bow down before the pictures of their sub MOA 5 shot group targets that took them 30 minutes to shoot.

 

I don't understand the point of carrying an unloaded weapon.

Everything I carry is loaded on account of the fact that if I need it, I will likely need it quickly.
--- merged: Sep 1, 2012 at 10:58 PM ---
Modern weapons are way safer than those of a hundred years ago. Typically, you don't have to worry about a mechanically induced AD... If your gun goes off unintentionally it is typically due to operator idiocy.

 

I loved you in Wallstreet.

 

We're about 1-2 years away from the next bear market. I'm really going to enjoy it.

 

if im carrying a pistol it's always ready to go in in the safest way to carry so condition 1 i guess. i usually carry a 1911. it felt weird at first, but once you get used to it and realize the steps that have to happen to get the thing to fire it becomes a non issue.

 

Steps, you say?

1. Sell 1911.
2. Buy new pistol that shoots just as well and holds twice as many rounds: Glock, S&W, Sig.
3. ???
4. Enjoy new pistol that shoots just as well, holds twice as many rounds, uses replacement parts that don't require hours of trial 'n error fitting.

(Heh... 1911 talk turns me into one of the Four Tops: "I can't help myself.")

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Not gonna lie, though... I often miss my gigundo USP 45 with it's cocked 'n locked option, especially how I could clear it from said status.

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The real round chambered vs. empty pipe argument, as ChrisJericho mentioned above, comes from a training issue, not a mechanical one. "Amber carry" people are afraid of their weapon (not enough training) or aren't carrying it correctly (such as in a proper holster that they've trained on). As Snake Eater pointed out, modern firearms are extremely safe except when the operator decides to curve his booger hook around the bang lever. Blaming a piece of equipment--such as the gun itself or a holster--for a negligent discharge that resulted from the operator putting their finger on the trigger and intentionally squeezing it to the rear is scapegoat hunting. Improper handling caused by ignorance or stress is the leading cause of negligent discharges. The other 1% is caused by genuine mechanical failures of weapon parts. Today's guns are 99% more reliable than their operators.

 

1911 Haters are like Virgins. They hate it...until they try it...once. Unless you have a smooth spot. Then I guess YOU'LL NEVER KNOW THE PLEASURE OF A 4.5# SINGLE ACTION TRIGGER.



#FACE!

Yes. I carry one in the chamber, ready to go. To be honest, the entire light trigger/hammer back is still a bit of a risk. If you guys remember this ultra tactifatty that shot himself with his 1911 and called his mom:


My nightstand guns and car guns and carry guns are all condition 1. If I need to resort to my gun, I probably need it fast. There are too many unknowns in what is a lethal encounter to assume that I will have the time and wherewithal to rack the slide, hence, condition 1. It also follows, that if you assume your guns are loaded, you will practice the sound habit of inspecting the chamber of every weapon you pick up.

Safe and storage guns are all unloaded. I would also never recommend condition 3 carry. But if you must, I would recommend training racking the slide one handed and as quickly as possible.
--- merged: Sep 3, 2012 at 3:10 PM ---
Also. Doesn't the picture from the original post look like an airsoft gun? Or a USP with a .22 conversion kit?

 

My carry, home defense, and training gun are all the same one, so unless it's being cleaned, it's loaded at all times. I keep one in the chamber. I have a couple of guns I take to the range just for fun, and I'm hoping I can get the wife down to the range soon so she can get some time with the Makarov and decide if she wants it for carry after a few classes. But unless it's just a fun gun for the range, I see no point in keeping it unloaded. I knew one guy that carries with the chamber unloaded, but he spent about 10 years training himself to do the "Israeli draw." It works for him, but I never liked it.

 

Kirstang... You can do better.


Second, I don't mean to endorse condition 1 (chambered) for everyone. If you are not going to put the necessary time into training to be proficient and safe, then condition 1 makes you a little bit more likely to do something stupid. It also isn't appropriate for all circumstances. For instance, I have a Mossberg Shotgun. It is not drop-safe and as a result I do not store it with a round chambered.

I personally am convinced that if I ever need a weapon, I will most likely need it as fast as possible. This drives my decision to maintain my personal carry and home defense weapons chambered. I also have a lot of schools and am confident in my wifes ability to not randomly shoot something she doesn't mean to. I recognize that this does in fact somewhat increase the risk of a Negligent Discharge, so to mitigate I try not to manipulate my weapons more than absolutely necessary.

For instance: I come home and want to put my carry pistol away. I don't just remove it from the holster, rather I remove the entire holster and pistol and stick that back in the safe. This minimizes my finger fucking of the gun. When I go out again I pull the holstered pistol out and stick it on my belt. At no point during this process am I loading/unloading or handling a pistol with an exposed trigger.

This is not an excuse to avoid proper weapon handling techniques, but rather a supplement. I am convinced that most people who shoot themselves or someone else do so because they are messing with their weapons (loading/unloading) at a moment when it is not absolutely necessary to do so. I feel comfortable and safe loading/unloading my weapons, but there is no reason to tempt fate by conducting the most accident producing activity more than is really necessary.

Plan 9 can probably relate to this: For those who have spent time in the military, how many 'joes' have you seen pop a round off when they were loading/unloading their weapons verses just sitting around going nothing? In my experience the accidents happened when someone was told to manipulate their weapon... If Joe has to load/unload his weapon three times a day just to go eat, eventually he will screw up catastrophically.

 

...like a hand-built Caspian launching .460 Rowland. Yeaaah, boooi!

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The following babble is common knowledge for gun guys like yourself, but I'll mention it for the benefit of lurkers:

I know a few guys that either use amber status for their off-safe home defense shotguns ("rack 'n go") or do that weird thing where they keep the slide back with a round on the fork. I don't have kids or pets or nosy friends, my current girlfriend doesn't touch my weapons at all (I have no illusions about her willingness to train) and said weapons are hidden in plain sight (own set of risks), so I keep my home defense 3-guns gassed up at all times.

One of the advantages of being an isolated bachelor, I guess.

I concur. As I said above, one of the expensive shortcuts to that kinda thing is having identical purpose-dedicated weapons that you can swap around if necessary. If you've got 3 Glock 19s, it's easy to keep one hot and holstered up in your pull-the-dot Bladetech IWB for carry, one with a Surefire X300 holstered in the nightstand and a third for nothing but finger fucking in front of the TeeVee with one of those yellow training barrels.

One of the issues I have with anti-gun people is that they don't understand why someone would want to buy 3 of the same gun, even over a period of, say, 6 months. As you're aware, shit always breaks and the rule of two-is-one is always in play at training and at classes, at home and in the field.

Best way to do it.

I concur. I do the same with my carry piece. It goes from my belt to the "goin' out stuff" shelf (Ye Olde Arming Table) and back as needed.

I think I loaded/cleared my M4/M203 like 2 dozen times in one day... multiple trips in/out wire, in/out up armor, in/out DFAC, in/out TOC, etc.

God, don't get me started on command-inspired loaded weapon phobia. It's absolutely retarded how often the regular army guys load and unload their blasters. The combination of unnecessary weapon fuckage and the complacency that comes from it leads to negligent discharges into clearing barrels. That and each unit has its own retarded procedures. I can't go into this DFAC on any status other than BCG-in-left-shoulder-pocket... still get yelled at by some E-8 at some point for something weapon-related. Ugh. And these are the dipshits that came up with "half cock" for the M249.

 

My m&p is carried hot, round in the chamber. No safety on the gun. But I also have a solid shinyppatent leather holster. The shotgun in the seat rack and the ar-15 are carried cruiser ready, no round in chamber, safety off. Idea being if we have time to access that we have time to chamber a round. Not having to carry concealed is a big help for speed. My one I carry for off duty is my mighty mite, s&w j frame, 38 special. No safety in a revolver, except for the 12 lb trigger. And when I get home the duty belt gets shoved in the safe with everything. I prefer tap rack instead of charge. Personal preference. Course revolver, just press trigger again. You've never had a desk pop? Frank, I had my first desk pop.

 

these gun debate threads of 1911 vs glock, 9mm vs 45 vs 40, ak vs m4 etc get so tiresome. just use what works for you. i happen to like the way the 1911 fits my smaller hands being single stack and the single action pull. i dont put down glock though because i know it's a great platform and plenty of people shoot them great, but it's not for me.

i think 1911's get a bad reliability rap because many people tweak them for maximum accuracy and light triggers. keeping it the way it was designed with normal springs, triggers, barrel length and loads makes for a very reliable gun.

 

I meant his shot group...

It's not bad, but it isn't 'post on the internet good' either.

 

C'mon, brother... don't feed the Obvious Troll. You're supposed to tell me that I don't have to live my whole life eating nothing but cold spaghetti noodles or something equally zen. That and KirStang gets a good ribbing for buying the Springfield OPERATOR!!! because he's seriously the most impulsive gun shopper I've ever had the joy of meeting in real life. His exotic spread of toys speaks for itself. His gun fetish is stronger than my own.

 

Another vote for one in the pipe.

You guys can debate about what make and model all you want. Hell, I still have revolvers I like. I've had a Rugar GP-100 for longer then I can remember. Yeah it's a little heavy but it's very accurate and I like the overall "feel"of it. When stateside my walk around weapon is a Glock 22.

 

That sounded like a challenge, Mr. Knife Haver. I have a similar shot group with one flier at 25 yards. Let's see what your nighthawk can do .

 

Ahem...

 

That's true but I can never find the key for the 15 yr old trigger lock I have on it so it's really just a poorly designed club.