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Does anyone else watch all the political wrangling going on,read message boards,watch biased news...

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by Borla, Aug 14, 2011.

  1. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    ......and feel that the political landscape is akin to trying to find reason and reality in the middle of an argument between Yankees fans and Red Sox fans, or Bears and Packers fans, or Celtics and Lakers fans about which team is better?

    I mean, seriously, anymore my tolerance for political discussion is almost nil. We basically have two factions that eskew all common sense and reasonableness in an effort to discredit their opponent. It's gotten to the point where solving problems isn't a goal, the only thing that matters is if you can discredit the "other team" and/or get yourself elected in their stead. Maybe my perception is off base, but it appears that the disconnect from reality is so great from both sides that each is doing more harm than good.

    If I'm a Democrat/Liberal, I don't care that spending is out of control, we've never left Afganistan/Iraq as promised, and 48% of Americans find a way to avoid paying a penny of taxes. I just want to complain that Bush screwed us and the rich are evil. If I'm a Republican/Conservative, I ignore the fact that we raised the debt limit multiple times under the last few "R" administrations, that conservative Congressman love pork just as much as their Democratic brethren, and the rich keep getting richer. I just want to scream that the Chinese own us and providing healthcare to everyone will break the backs of working Americans and small business.

    Really? 235 years and we are reduced to this? Common sense, compromise, and the good of the people are meaningless? That's how it seems anymore...........
  2. Derwood

    Derwood Slightly Tilted

    Columbus, OH
    There's money to be made when the game is played this way....
  3. Plan9 FORMAT C:

    This Island Earth
    No, I'm not a sports fan.


    And US politics make me want to move to another country.
  4. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Wealth makes most people either stupid or selfish. Poverty can have the same effect.

    America's wealthiest 25% hold enough wealth to pay off the entire federal debt today. They could do it all over again tomorrow and the next day and still have trillions of dollars left over.

    America isn't broke.

    This is true regardless of your political affiliation.
  5. samcol

    samcol Getting Tilted

    people today think it's strange to talk about politics or to shout down politicians or to be politically active. however, it's ok to get super passionate, yell, scream, and engage is this weird type of tribalism that is sports.

    sports and american idol won't ever affect your life like politics do every moment of your life.

    i can understand someone's frustration with the whole political situation though.
  6. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    It's an American phenomenon, really, this political bipartisanship. American politics is bipartisan politics. There is no other mode. There is a long history of this either/or, us-vs.-themism. If you want to engage in politics in the U.S., this often requires aligning at least somewhat to either the Democratic Party or the Republican Party. There are no other viable parties. There are other parties, but they are savagely marginalized.

    To Americans, you are either a conservative or a liberal—and liberal can stand in for any of the following, regardless of how erroneous it is: progressive, socialist, communist, radical. Conservatives are often considered the following: fascists, Nazis, reactionaries, traditionalists, neocons, etc., but you don't get the same kind of political blurring you get with the liberal label. It's easy to toss out associations of Nazi or fascist, depending on the circumstances, but there is a perpetual problem of taking liberals and calling them socialists. "Liberals have socialist policies." "Liberals are driving the country towards communism."

    Which is a problem. Because a tried and true liberal doesn't necessarily want a socialist government or socialist policies. They most certainly don't want communism. No liberal does. Liberalism is a politics that is centre-left to centre-right. Calling liberals "the left" may work in the U.S., but American liberals are hardly left wing in a general sense.

    Put it this way: If American conservatives were as right wing as American liberals are left wing, they'd all be Democrats.

    The overarching problem is that Americans tend to like the binary opposition of us vs. them, either/or, and with or against. It keeps things simple, as you always have an big easy target. Thinking in multiplicities doesn't seem to be something the public can do. This is why Americans need to lump socialism in with liberalism. It makes it easier to dismiss liberalism, because for some big reason, socialism is a big no no in America. It's a non-starter.

    But it makes as much sense to criticize liberalism this way as it does to criticize conservatism for being fascist Nazi-like. "We can't have conservatives do anything, they might do something Nazi-like. They're turning America into the next Reich." Yet conservatives keep conservating on, because they're not (all) fascist Nazis. Just like liberals should keep liberalling on: they're not (all) socialist communists.

    It's confusing, I know. For example, not all conservatives are libertarians. Some liberals are libertarians. So are some socialists.

    Try as they may to keep something simple, Americans must either admit things aren't as simple as that or they can continue to err with regard to examining politics.
    • Like Like x 1
  7. If only the labels were truly descriptive. Most of today's "liberals" are more akin to '50s and '60s mainstream Republicans. Current conservatism is so far off the charts that McCarthyism was leftist by comparison.

    What these characters do is extremely important to me, my offspring, my coming grand daughter. But, they are all such out-of-touch assholes! We are real, hard working people out here, scratching to make ends meet every day. There are more of us than any other constituency. It's been almost 200 years since Shelly wrote:

    "Rise like lions after slumber
    In unvanquishable NUMBER!
    Shake your chains to earth, like dew
    Which in sleep had fall'n on you:

    Not advocating violence, but when in the course of human events......
  8. Zen

    Zen Very Tilted

    I am not politically well read, but I get the impression that the parties argue about whether to offer spuds or potatoes, in a context where the voters never get to actually eat them because the the behavioural message 'we are not really offering you what we say we are.
  9. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia ...

    I don't watch any political coverage. I believe to do so is legitimizing the outright lunacy that is taking over the Republican party. I'm not going to listen to these people's ideas for my country because they are a gaggle of crackpots.
    If there truly were an equal pull to the left, an actual pull toward activist politics and socialism, there might be a balance. Something I could stand behind.
    What we have are milquetoast democrats pretending that they are not really up against the inevitable tidal wave of American ignorance and intolerance that has been named the "Tea Party."
    These are dark days for America. I fear it will get worse before it gets better.
  10. Stan

    Stan Resident Dumbass

    I watch enough to be able to ridicule it accurately.

    I find Obama aggravatingly moderate. I understand pragmatism; but it doesn't seem that he gets much in return.

    On the other hand, the Tea Party is taking on an almost Taliban-like religious fervor. It plays well to the religious right; but scares the piss out of many of us.