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Politics Donald Trump, POTUS

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by Chris Noyb, Nov 10, 2016.

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  1. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    I will remain vigilant and outspoken against the growing white nationalist movement despite your denial.

    It exists, it is growing, it has a voice in the White House and that should be of concern to any reasonable person.

    You can feel free to deny it while attacking others based on a handful of anecdotes.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Shadowex3

    Shadowex3 Very Tilted

    Unproven and even some disproven tweets and utterly baseless social media posts is something you take as god's own proclamation but major national scandals at the very highest levels of government, of such seriousness that Members of Parliament require police protection, as well as widespread nationwide (and indeed international) reports of massive mobs requiring the intervention of the police for the safety of Jewish students is nothing but "a handful of anecdotes".

    Gotcha.

    I just realised I've been going about this all wrong. I was arguing with you based on the premise that the problem was racism and anti-semitism in particular. Clearly that was wrong. You don't give a single fuck about actual open and naked Jew hatred that's so violent and so severe people need police protection even at the highest levels of government, you're just using that as a cover to smear someone you dislike politically.

    Your slip is showing Redux. You're making it blatantly obvious you don't actually care about anti-semitism or racism at all... at least not when it's you and yours doing it.
     
  3. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    Dude, as someone who grew up with an 'uncle' Saul who was a communist Jew I kinda have a tough time with your left right thing.
    My family have been activists on the left for generations and I promise the hate for the Jews came from the other side as did the racism.
    Right now as someone who works with people who have disabilities I can tell you our issues seem to be coming from that direction too.

    Have you spent much time on the dark side of the web?
    Breitbart will make you gag a maggot but it is the slimy top layer.
    Down below you can find site that accuse the Zionists of setting up the Pulse shooting and how this country needs to round up both the Muslims and the Jews together.
    Some even suggest we are actually part of a cabal but I can't figure that one out for the life of me.
    I guess because we are all 'not white'?

    These people are dangerously unhinged and Trumps ascendancy to power has given them the limelight.
    Trump and Bannon themselves might not personally the disgusting monsters that they are but they have brought these people out to play and I'm pissed.
     
  4. Shadowex3

    Shadowex3 Very Tilted

    Have you spent much time in the real world, where real people actually do things with real consequences? Because out here in the real world it's the left that engages in widespread mass antisemitism of all stripes. It's the left that forms violent mobs that try to beat down doors and force Jewish students to hide in the bushes or behind barricades. It's the left that Members of Parliament need police protection from. It's the left accusing Jews of being privileged white oppressors and accuses them of being part of a Jewish conspiracy.

    Step out into the real world Redux. You're living in an echo chamber created by the very people leading the greatest increase in violent anti-semitism since the Holocaust. Violent mobs chanting "Long live the Intifada" and calling for the annihilation of Israel and the Jews is routine now.
     
  5. Remixer

    Remixer Middle Eastern Doofus

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Point taken, and I definitely agree with you. Let's hope that comprehensive reform is something that will come through.

    No, you misunderstand. I completely understand your viewpoint and that surely there was a reason that made Gay Marriage a priority for you, and as you mentioned there was one.

    And naturally, as a Muslim for whom half the extended family is Muslim Americans, the islamophobia issue hits close to home and is of personal importance.

    However, I'd still have voted Trump if I could have. To me, the established circus that is US politics is such an insane system to have, I would take anyone who represented a hope for being a catalyst for change. It was the same reasoning for why I was an Obama supporter during his campaign and eventual presidency. He turned out to be a moderate disappointment, but I certainly don't view him as a bad president.

    Hillary simply didn't represent such a possibility, and no amount of shaming or belittling by other parties would have changed my mind. Honestly, if Bernie had been in the running, the choice of who to vote for would have been exceedingly easy for me. He at least had the appearance of a person with character who wasn't bought by special interests, with some semblance of truth to his statements, and for whom reform was a priority. These factors far outweighed other social issues to me personally.

    So don't get me wrong, I can fully appreciate that your issues are important and personal to you. It just simply doesn't make anyone who didn't vote your way a person to be denounced for and direct anger at.

    If anyone, you should really blame your own party for putting up such a deeply flawed figure as the presidential candidate. It says a lot that this was a race between the most unpopular candidates ever.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
  6. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    From several months ago:

    How Donald Trump's New Campaign Chief Created an Online Haven for White Nationalists
    Breitbart News is "the platform for the alt-right," boasts Stephen Bannon.

    And back to this:

    From the linked article by Ben Shapiro (he is only "calling bullshit" on allegations of Bannon's personal past words and actions NOT his extremist race-based policy goals and objectives):

    This week, the media have gone nuts over the appointment of Breitbart News’ Steve Bannon for White House Chief Strategist. I share their disapproval, but the allegations they’ve made about Bannon are unsupported by evidence. It’s not enough to say that Steve is a nasty human being (he is), that he’s interested in burning down Republican leadership for his own political gain (he is), that he wants to hollow out the traditional constitutional conservative movement in favor of a European-style far-right nationalist populism (he does), or that he pandered to the despicable alt-right at Breitbart News and mainstreamed them by doing so (he did). No, they have to claim that he’s Goebbels. They claim that he’s personally anti-Semitic and racist and a white nationalist and anti-Israel, without evidence.
    I agree the claims about Bannon's personal racism and anti-Semitism are w/o credible evidence; that does not change the fact of his promoting a white nationalist/populist agenda....and soon, from inside the White House.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
  7. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Et tu quoque?

    Also, did you just say that no one on the right engages in violence?

    Don't worry about answering that (or replying to this post). These questions are simply rhetorical. I'm well-versed in your binary thinking.
     
  8. Shadowex3

    Shadowex3 Very Tilted

    And we're back to your hypocritical "alt-right = literally hitler" game Redux. Tell me does this mean you've changed your mind and we can hold feminism to the same standard?

    "In a discussion specifically about anti-semitism, where claims of rising/mass anti-semitism are a central point, you are forbidden from making the argument that it is not the right but the left which is driving and perpetrating a majority of real world anti-semitism."

    Funny how you just keep getting more and more intolerant of the mere existence of a disagreement, to the point you now resort of abusing claims like this even when the entire discussion revolved around the point of who was in fact actually engaging in certain behaviors.

    Since you're once again misusing fallacies to stifle dissent I'll do the same thing I always do, completely and utterly shred your argument while you totally ignore everything beyond your own solipsistic delusions to the point you publicly humiliate yourself by responding to someone else's post thinking it's me:

    Tu Quoque would be me responding to Redux's unpersoning of everyone that didn't support Hillary as white supremacist neonazis by accusing Redux of anti-semitism and white supremacy.

    It is not Tu Quoque to point out that multiple Jews including those who have profound disagreements with Bannon have condemned the obscene smear campaign against him, nor is it Tu Quoque to point out that the people using claims of anti-semitism to try and commit a political assassination are themselves the greatest and most widespread perpetrators of anti-semitism in the west.

    It is not Tu Quoque to provide overwhelming evidence that not only is a claim false but that the group of people attempting to make that claim are using it as a cover for their own misconduct, especially when that misconduct in and of itself is the central issue.

    No, I just said that the left commits far more, far more widespread, and far more severe violence by a long shot.

    From the person whose world only allows for absolute loyalty to the socjus party line or condemns someone as an unperson.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
  9. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    You completely misunderstood me, and you completely misunderstand me (among other things). (Or you are basically committing libel.) I know it's futile to reason with you, so forgive me for not trying.
     
  10. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Well, this will become an interesting thread...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. omega

    omega Very Tilted

    Shadowex3, not going to argue your numerous other points, others here are much better and much more patient in dealing with your sophistry. What I am going to take issue with is your frankly incredulous story of being at a panel in domestic terrorism that very day you posted. It's incredible, the coincidence. And by incredible, I mean the usage of not credible. I am former law enforcement, you can see me in my avatar. Our concern was the far right. Sovereign citizens. III percenters, anti Obama racist stickers on cars. Those are what caused us concern. We never discussed the leftists, because they were not a credible threat. The anti government far right are the ones who kill law enforcement and plan domestic terrorism. The religious nuts who equate god with country are dangerous. Those are the right wing nuts. So your story doesn't fit reality. That's why it's incredible. So please, no more bullshit. It makes you look weak because you are unbelievable.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    The right wing nut jobs are far more likely to kill you than the jihadists.

    http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/12/...ger-threat-america-isis-jihadists-422743.html

    And yes, I've been out in the 'real' world.
    As a Jew who loves Israel but really dislikes the decisions the current government has made it makes me ambivalent towards so much of this.
    Sometimes seeing both sides is a curse more than a blessing.
    I have family and friends on deeply entrenched on both walls of this issue and want both to reach out but know they really won't.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016
  13. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    • Like Like x 1
  14. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    [​IMG]

    Because walls are such a modern idea... :rolleyes:
     
    • Like Like x 3
  15. Shadowex3

    Shadowex3 Very Tilted

    If doxing and inviting open source violence wasn't the go-to tool of the left I'd just send you a PM with the university's event page. How about I send it to a staff member instead and they can verify the event was real to you. Since you're so convinced I'm just a pathetic little "weakling" you shouldn't feel threatened by that at all, maybe you're even so confident you'll draw a pig on your forehead and admit ticket quotas are real if I can actually prove it.

    I can indeed see you in your avatar. I bet you spent every other day in a fusion center working with DIA, CIA, ONI, FBI, the NCTC and submitted reports directly to the Director of National Intelligence when you weren't trying to meet your ticket quota.

    For someone who was law enforcement you'd think you would be more familiar with the long and voluminous history of left wing terrorists, and the rise of modern groups like ALF and ELF. The problem isn't that my "story" doesn't fit reality, it's that reality doesn't fit your prejudices.

    If you want sophistry you should talk to Baraka, Charlatan, or one of the other TFP illiberal leftists. They've taken active-ignorance and disingenuity to such a degree that they've had entire conversations with themselves without ever touching anything I actually said and somehow managed to go after me for things someone else (one of them in fact) posted. Talking with them is practically a performance art installation, I'd call it dadaesque if it kafkaesque wasn't far more fitting.

    Take this for example:

    It's a typical Baraka post. There's absolutely nothing of meaningful substance here whatsoever, it's nothing more than a restatement of Baraka's prime assertion that disagreeing with him by definition proves someone is wrong and either evil or an idiot. It's very simple: Regressive Leftism is Baraka's religion. Feminist his Christ. Privilege his Original Sin. All of these are utterly unquestionable truths, divine and without fault, they emanate from on high.

    That's it. There's nothing else there. "If you understood me you would not disagree with me." Either agree with him, accept the socjus party line, or you're committing libel, you're a woman-hating misogynist, you're an islamophobic racist. Which particular scarlet letter you're branded with doesn't matter because they're all interchangeable, all of them mean the same thing: You are an unperson.

    THAT is a bad faith argument.

    Am I a cuck too? Puny perhaps? Maybe you'd like to call my parentage or penis size into question?
    This is the sort of thing that makes someone look weak.
     
  16. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Is it delusion or libel? INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW.
     
  17. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    An acknowledgement from our shadowy colleague that he is a foot soldier in the alt-right army and has learned their methods and tactics well?
     
  18. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Remixer

    Remixer Middle Eastern Doofus

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Seen today on German TV as I was working out, and cracked me up:

     
    • Like Like x 3
  20. Shadowex3

    Shadowex3 Very Tilted

    The SPLC both says Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Maajid Nawaz are KKK level anti-islamic extremists and continues to refuse to classify even Gender Identity Watch as a hate movement, despite the fact it's literally dedicated to the eradication of transgender people. They'll call a female black survivor of genital mutilation whose friends were literally beheaded in the street and left with a death threat to her impaled in their corpse evil, but it took thousands of people years to get them to stop taking money from a woman who commits hate crimes against transwomen and runs an organization that seeks their annihilation.

    That's what I would call the very definition of unreliability.

    So is the alt-right a bunch of right wing neoliberal white supremacist neonazi anti-semites or is a left wing non-white conservative jewish socialist a member of the alt-right. Make up your minds.
     
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