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Politics Donald Trump, POTUS

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by Chris Noyb, Nov 10, 2016.

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  1. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    You might have enjoyed the alt-right celebration in DC yesterday, hosted by white nationalists Richard Spencer and Jared Taylor, with special guest Tila Tequila.

    [​IMG]

     
  2. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    On the issue of growing right wing extremism (RWE) and acts of violence/terrorism, you might want to check out recent studies at U.S. Military Academy's Combating Terrorism Center (http://bit.ly/2eV3a8q), the University of Maryland's START (Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism) Center (http://bit.ly/2fvoUEd), and the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security at Duke University (http://bit.ly/2gtapVx).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. omega

    omega Very Tilted



    -+-{Important TFP Staff Message}-+-
    Too far.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2016
  4. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    Check out HR 2802 the horribly named First Amendment Defense Act,

    Prohibits the federal government from taking discriminatory action against a person on the basis that such person believes or acts in accordance with a religious belief or moral conviction that: (1) marriage is or should be recognized as the union of one man and one woman, or (2) sexual relations are properly reserved to such a marriage.

    Defines "discriminatory action" as any federal government action to discriminate against a person with such beliefs or convictions, including a federal government action to:

    • alter the federal tax treatment of, cause any tax, penalty, or payment to be assessed against, or deny, delay, or revoke certain tax exemptions of any such person;
    • disallow a deduction of any charitable contribution made to or by such person;
    • withhold, reduce, exclude, terminate, or otherwise deny any federal grant, contract, subcontract, cooperative agreement, loan, license, certification, accreditation, employment, or similar position or status from or to such person; or
    • withhold, reduce, exclude, terminate, or otherwise deny any benefit under a federal benefit program.
    Requires the federal government to consider to be accredited, licensed, or certified for purposes of federal law any person who would be accredited, licensed, or certified for such purposes but for a determination that the person believes or acts in accordance with such a religious belief or moral conviction.

    Permits a person to assert an actual or threatened violation of this Act as a claim or defense in a judicial or administrative proceeding and to obtain compensatory damages or other appropriate relief against the federal government.

    Authorizes the Attorney General to bring an action to enforce this Act against the Government Accountability Office or an establishment in the executive branch, other than the U.S. Postal Service or the Postal Regulatory Commission, that is not an executive department, military department, or government corporation.

    Defines "person" as any person regardless of religious affiliation, including corporations and other entities regardless of for-profit or nonprofit status.



    This thing is pure fucking bullocks and gives companies the same rights as individuals as well as punishing any one who dislikes the idea.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. martian

    martian Server Monkey Staff Member

    Location:
    Mars


    -+-{Important TFP Staff Message}-+-
    There are a lot of strong opinions in this thread. Strong opinions are fine but treating each other with anything less than respect continues to not be tolerated. Penis size is not relevant here, and at no point do we ever make reference to anything members may choose to share in private elsewhere in the forum. Keep it civil or the thread gets locked and your toys get taken away.

    Thank you.
     
  6. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    But Trump "defends size of his penis" :p

    However, it is not true that he tweeted an image of his penis.

    Sorry, couldnt resist! :D
     
  7. martian

    martian Server Monkey Staff Member

    Location:
    Mars
    You're not helping.
     
  8. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    • Like Like x 1
  9. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Many Trump supporters might see an immediate negative impact on their pocketbooks when Trump takes office in Jan.

    He has promised to reverse all of Obama's executive orders, including new DOL overtime rules that go into effect on Dec. 1 of this year that require paying time-and-a-half for 5 million workers previously denied. Many of these workers fit the profile of Trump voters.

    The Affordable Care Act is also threatened but repeal will take an act of Congress. If Congress and Trump repeal and dont replace the ACA, 20 million people will lose their health insurance if purchased through an ACA exchange and everyone, including the 150+ million with group (employer sponsored) health insurance, will lose many guaranteed benefits and consumer protections.

    More on the future of the ACA: Republicans face up to reality on Obamacare.

    Now that the Republicans will control the White House as well as the House and Senate, campaign rhetoric will meet he realities of governing.
     
  10. Katia

    Katia Very Tilted

    Location:
    Earth
    Well, that was interesting.

     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    For those who might have missed it.
    The signs posts are there if you choose to read them.

    If you want to keep your head up your ass, that's your problem.
     
  12. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Richard Spencer: “Hail Trump! Hail our people! Hail victory!”



     
  13. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    Here is Richard Spencer being interviewed on NPR. Spencer is the leader of the alt-right movement.

    Keep trying to convince me that the alt-right isn't a white nationalist movement.

    http://www.npr.org/2016/11/17/50247...right-leader-on-voice-in-trump-administration

    Here is a transcript. That he has an increasingly mainstream voice, is troubling.

     
  14. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    On Ben Shapiro and Alan Dershowitz...

    They are both being quite clear that they don't see any evidence currently that Bannon is a white supremacist, or even an anti-semite. The articles that have been linked to here are clear that they both don't want use those labels unless fully warranted. That said, Shapiro, in this article is clear that he believes Bannon has supports them.

    http://www.dailywire.com/news/10770/3-thoughts-steve-bannon-white-house-chief-ben-shapiro

    I guess the question is, why give these sorts of people a platform? Why give voice to white supremacists?

    I agree that the media is hyping the issue of Bannon and certainly overplaying the issue of Trump's supporters in general. I understand why it's happening but it is playing right into the hands of players such as Spencer and Brimelow.

    This *is* a disturbing trend and warrants being monitored.

    To suggest otherwise is to have your head in the sand.
     
  15. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    But, you know, Bannon is just one piece of the puzzle. When you look at all that Trump has done since the election, you can see things are lining up a certain way, and this goes beyond the concerns of white nationalists in the White House. Regardless, there certainly seems to be, at the very least, a nativist current running through this whole upcoming administration and political environment.

    Even so, I thought this was funny (in a sardonic way), how this came to light. It's like they're treating the worst parts of Trump's promises as a matter of course. Like, it's no big deal because, hey, Trump has some presidenting to do....

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/21/donald-trump-kris-kobach-documents-syria-muslims
     
  16. Shadowex3

    Shadowex3 Very Tilted

    So not only are you accusing the Moroccan/Israeli Bernie-voting Jew of being a neonazi, you're also accusing Thien Thanh Thi Nguyen of the same?

    The reason people like Spencer and Taylor can do what they just did is because people have so diluted the terms involved that they're no longer meaningful. For a solid year now veryone who didn't support Hillary was called everything from a woman hating misogynist to an alt-right white supremacist, that was practically the cornerstone of her campaign: "Vote for me or you're literally Hitler".

    You've used the term so much, and called so many people alt-right white supremacist misogynist neonazis, that nobody cares anymore. It's literally The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

    Sign posts... head up ass... etc...

    http://www.independent.co.uk/studen...baroness-royall-jewish-students-a7170446.html
    http://observer.com/2016/05/jewish-woman-forced-to-hide-from-anti-israel-activists-at-uc-irvine/
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/726468/UCL-Jewish-students-hide-pro-Palestine-protest-Hen-Mazzig
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...otection-over-antisemitic-abuse-a3349241.html
    http://observer.com/2016/06/anti-semitism-flourishing-on-california-campuses/
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/10/opinions/kosmin-anti-semitism-campus/

    We're watching the signs. We're watching who claims the Jews are khazars and white european genocidal settler-colonialists. We're watching who accuses Jews of having dual loyalty or a "Jewish Agenda". We're watching who accuses the Jews of controlling the banks, the media, and the government. We're watching who it is that forms massive crowds chanting "Long Live the Intifada" and "Slaughter the Jews". We're watching which MP's show up to give speeches in support of those crowds. We're watching who it is that tries to beat down barricaded doors, and who claims Jews are harvesting organs and using baby's blood to make matza.

    We're watching as the foremost experts on anti-semitism in the world describe the "Israelization" of anti-semitism and flat out say "this is the time to get out.”

    And we're watching as the people who've done all of those things call us "alt-right" and "white nationalists" for even mentioning any of this. For daring to have a problem with it. For the audacity of believing we have a right to self-determination as an indigenous people.

    Two reasons: Follow the money, and look at this very thread. Look at a non-white middle eastern socialist jew getting accused of being a white supremacist neonazi. There's your answer. Alt-Right is the new gamergate is the new MRA is the new neckbeard is the new satanic ritual abuser is the new commie is the new... etc.

    It's a black pit you can throw anyone into. A scarlet letter you can brand anyone with and there's no coming back from it. It's a way to un-person your political enemies to the point people are openly willing to strip and beat them bloody in the streets, to glass and egg women, attack even homeless black women, firebomb campaign offices...

    They did it because it's power. It's the end-game of identity politics. And it's the best way for the plutocrats that own congress to keep the poor and whatever is left of our shattered middle class fighting each other instead of working together. Haven't you noticed how all the identity politics elite tend to be filthy rich and incredibly well connected? They fly out to meet reporters, get invited to UN panels, shake hands with senators, have trust funds and get handed hundreds of thousands of dollars just to play around blogging...

    I've only been saying that about the regressive left for how many years now? And now hardly a week goes by I don't come across another report of someone being beaten in the street, getting a jar of piss dumped on her head, and Jewish students needing to be rescued by the police or some other act of profound anti-semitism.


    You can't be too hard on him for doing something he's seen other forum members and even staff do on enough occasions, and with such ferocity, that it's left other members genuinely afraid to post their views for fear they'd be next. He just walked through a door that was already very wide open.

    As for his particular choice of material...

    "There is no such thing as a bad tactic, only a bad target"
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
  17. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    I read the articles. I don't see where this is a left or right thing.

    I do see some troubling signs there. I do see a lot of people very upset about Israel and their policies. I see a lot of anti-Israel. I see a lot of anti-semitism. I believe those are two separate issues that often get conflated by different people.

    It warrants equal concern as the things that I have listed.

    Where in this tread was a jewish person called a neo-Nazi? I must have missed it.

    I find it difficult to understand your defence of the Alt-Right. Watching the leader of the Alt-Right, Spencer, speak how can there be *any* doubt about what he is saying? He isn't hiding what he is.



    To be crystal clear, the people beating people and dumping piss are not in the right.
     
  18. Shadowex3

    Shadowex3 Very Tilted

    Some of the foremost (1) experts on anti-semitism in the world explicitly and wholeheartedly disagree:

    And this is backed by strong evidence.

    Look at yourself in the mirror. You were just given mountainous evidence of a massive worldwide upsurge in anti-semitism from the left so severe that Members of Parliament need police protection from their own party and police rescuing Jews from violent mobs has become a commonplace occurence.

    Your first response is to start trying to defend some of it as "anti-israel" and to try and equate it with people who merely say shitty things.

    Saying shitty things is not remotely equal to massive widespread routinized and normalized violence on such a level that there are squads of guards armed with automatic weapons outside every jewish school, synagogue, and neighborhood in multiple western countries and tens of thousands of Jews are fleeing Europe in what can only be called ethnic cleansing on a scale not seen since just before the Holocaust.

    Tila Tequila shitstirring with a few paper pushing trolls that the entirety of the mainstream media and most of the country despises is not comparable to the systemic and institutionalized prejudice dominating that same mainstream media, almost the entirety of academia, western governments (whose MP's give supportive speeches at rallies where "slaughter the jews" is chanted by massive crowds), and the UN.

    When multiple senators attend a massive Klan rally in Baltimore and give speeches supporting a crowd that's changing "Slaughter the nonwhites" you can start to say these two things are approaching equivalence. Until then the two are simply incomparable.

    If you missed it you either didn't read the thread or it's so ideologically inconvenient that you're blanking out to avoid having to see it.

    I haven't defended anything he's said. I have only done two things: Point out that "alt-right", like neonazi and white supremacist, has been used as a smear by the left so much that it's now a meaningless term. Everyone from Bernie's supporters on down have been accused of being "alt-right" racist misogynist white supremacist neonazis. First and above all else "alt-right" is nothing more than a word instantly used to un-person someone the moment they violate party diktat.

    Second, I've applied your own standards to this. It's your argument that no matter how many shitty people identify with a named group, no matter how influential or powerful they are, no matter how much of a public figure they are, no matter how much they actually do things in real life, nobody is allowed to actually hold that group responsible for those people or judge that group by those people.

    That's YOUR argument. One you, Baraka, and all the other TFP illiberals have ardently defended over dozens of pages and thousands of words. If you want to abandon it now in order to go after people you don't like then it means accepting the equal validity of all the criticisms I've made of the regressive left over the years which you have handwaved away.

    But they are in the mainstream of the left. This is what happens when you make your position synonymous with "good" ( or "equality"). Everyone who dissents in the slightest is by definition "un-good" and thus an un-person, they're a subhuman "deplorable". This behavior isn't an accident, it's by design. In fact there's video evidence of the Clinton campaign admitting they brought in people deliberately to start riots and violence at Trump's events.

    I called this years ago. I pointed at the earliest incidences of violence and said "This ideology is defective by design and will only produce more of this". I pointed out when the regressive left first began to share a bed with the far right and radical islam over their shared hatred of Jews and said "This is what happens when you arbitrarily declare an entire people to be evil white khazar oppressors".

    I showed you the signs, you didn't want to see them because it meant abandoning a Sacred Belief.

    Well this is where we are now. My people are being forced to flee western countries by the tens of thousands, people were stripped and beaten in the streets for an entire year, some of the most poverty stricken desperate communities in the nation were slammed as alt-right misogynist white supremacists for not supporting Hillary, a campaign office was firebombed, and a whole lot of people were utterly alienated and driven to Trump.

    There's a reason even Slavoj Fucking Zizek said he'd vote Trump because Hillary was far more dangerous. That shit was why.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
  19. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Several brief thoughts:

    Your arguments and examples on the growing anti-semitism is primarily directed at Europe, where it is coming from the far left, the far right/nationalist movement and the influx of recent Muslim immigrants. This is an entirely separate issue from what is happening in the US in the last few years and, more directly, as the result of the election.

    Your "foremost experts" are cherry picked, while ignoring others, particularly in the US, from the ADL to FBI hate crime statistics. You have also ignored the experts/credible studies in the US citing the rise of right wing racist/anti-semitic, anti-government/white nationalists and acts of violence/terrorism. Or even the SPLC, which I would expect you to dismiss, but in fact, is as credible as some of your "experts."

    On US college campuses, incidents of growing racism are far greater than incidents of anti-semitism and much of those claims of anti-semitism are anti-Isreal (or anti current Israeli government) and not anti-semitism.

    I also have not seen anyone in this tread "call a jewish person a neo-Nazi" or "call us (you) 'alt-right' and 'white nationalists." Specific examples of the enthusiasm of white nationalist groups or spokespersons (National Policy Institute, KKK, League of the South, Daily Stormer, American Renaissance, etc.) for Trump were cited.

    You apparently are still unable to acknowledge the rise of the alt-right movement and the access it has to the Trump administration.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
  20. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    From the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum:

    Museum Condemns White Nationalist Conference Rhetoric
     
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