1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. We've had very few donations over the year. I'm going to be short soon as some personal things are keeping me from putting up the money. If you have something small to contribute it's greatly appreciated. Please put your screen name as well so that I can give you credit. Click here: Donations
    Dismiss Notice

Erasing American history

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Frankie, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. Frankie

    Frankie Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    New England
    Good bad and ugly our American history is just that. Nothing we can do today can change that fact. Tearing down statues and desecrating memorials to American solders who fought for what they believed was their freedom and protection of their country, will not change history. It is important to learn from history's lessons so as to never repeat it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    /me goes to get some popcorn and a Guinness.

    This should be fun.
     
  3. Lindy

    Lindy Moderator Staff Member

    Location:
    Nebraska
    Let's abuse all of those in our past who were too stupid and lacking in foresight to apply 21st Century values to their eighteenth, nineteenth, and twentieth century lives.:rolleyes:
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    What you consider "your" history is not part of the history others experienced.
     
    • Lovely Lovely x 1
  5. Lindy

    Lindy Moderator Staff Member

    Location:
    Nebraska
    A lot of this is an effort to escape the more unpleasant or embarrassing (how could we have done that) parts of our history. But it won't work.
    Lincoln's 1862 State of the Union Address to Congress: "Fellow citizens, we cannot escape history."

    Enjoy the orchestral prelude in Copland's "Lincoln Portrait" or Abe Lincoln's words start at 8:00 in... It's kind of a low level recording, so turn up the volume. This setting of Lincoln'm words and Carl Sandburg's poetry, The Philadelphia Orchestra, and especially narrator Adlai Stevenson, never fails to uplift and move me.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs6cIi_mKfg&t=5s
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    /me puts down his popcorn.
    Okay, guess I better toss in my two bits.

    As a Jew I don't think we should blot out the embarrassing or awful moments in our history.
    There is too much of a chance of us doing it again.
    If you look at how Germany and Japan has handled the history of their actions during WW II, you will see a massive difference.
    Germany has kept the concentration camps open so people can see the horrors of what happened and teaches the details in their schools.
    They also don't allow people to gloss over or deny that it happened.
    While Japan doesn't teach about the Nijing Massacre, comfort woman, or Section 731.

    The statues people are whining about being taken down are not meant as a way of remembering those mistakes.
    They were put up during the first attempts at a Civil Rights movement after Reconstruction was destroyed.
    You know, the one you don't hear much about because there were hundreds of lynchings and burning down of entire sections of cities to stop it.
    Greenwood, Tulsa - Wikipedia
    The statues were put up to mark parks and sections of town as white controlled, to put fear into POC.
    They were made cheap and fast.
    I have no problem moving them to a museum some place as an example of the kind of shit POC have had to put up with but they do not belong in the city parks and thorough fairs.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Frankie

    Frankie Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    New England
    Not exactly. Those weren't the statues I was referring too. I was referring to Silent Sam and other confederate monuments and markers from our American Civil war.
     
  8. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    Actually Silent Sam is a perfect example of what I was talking about.
    It was part of that batch of statues put up by The Daughters of the Confederacy in 1913 way after the war was over and during that first Civil Rights movement I mentioned (with all the lynching and burning).
    They were mass designed by Canadian sculptor John Wilson (the dude cranked out a boatload of the damned things).
    You see there was a move to start opening state colleges to black students back then.
    That was put to a quick stop you can damn sure betcha and for proof look no further than having a memorial to a confederate soldier placed at the entrance.

    The Civil War means a lot of things but one thing that it really means is that a bunch of people fought to keep slavery legal.
    The POC who live in that shadow really don't need to be constantly reminded that there was a time when people fought to keep them in chains.
    Making statues to honor those traitors to the United States and as a threat to the citizens living there just isn't a good way to keep our history alive.

    There is a good reason Germany doesn't have memorials to the Nazis.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
    • Like Like x 3
  9. Frankie

    Frankie Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    New England
    Thank you I wasn’t aware of the history of the Silant Sam and Co. statues, as a civil war historian I was holding Silent Sam in the same reverence as the Statues I’ve visited at Gettysburg, Chancellorsville, Fredricksburg battle grounds. Thanks again.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    This is somewhat related to the issue of erasing or preserving history.

    Would the country benefit from establishing a National Women's History Museum?

    It appears it may happen next month. A House bill to establish such a museum will be voted on in November and already has enough sponsors to pass (a similar bill is waiting in the Senate).

    H.R.1980 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Smithsonian Women's History Museum Act

    I am all for it. I think it could provide a great archive of historic materials and a great learning venue for our younger citizens.

    Among the existing 20 Smithsonian Museums, the two most recent are the National Museum of the American Indian and the National Museum of African American History and Culture.

    Some might suggest that exhibits on these Americans should be included in the National Museum of American History. And, certainly major achievements should be part of the larger museum but more background on those achievements and other "lesser" but historically achievements would justify a separate women's museum.

    WHY WE NEED A WOMEN’S HISTORY MUSEUM
    Currently, depictions of our nation’s history are incomplete as they often fail to tell the stories of half our population — women. A national museum dedicated to recounting this history will show not only our country, but the world, that the U.S. values and appreciates women and what they have done to help build this great country.

    • There is no comprehensive museum anywhere in the U.S. dedicated to the full story of women’s history
    • Only 9 out of 91 statues in the U.S. Capitol’s National Statuary Hall depict women;
    • Only 5% of the approximately 2,400 national monuments honor women
    • Women are underrepresented in the history textbooks taught in schools
    Operating costs for Smithsonian Museums are funded mostly through federal funds and supplemented by private donations.

    The National Museum of African American History and Culture took thirteen years from authorizing legislation in 2003 (nine Republicans voted against it) to opening its doors in 2016. Earlier bills were blocked by one (racist) Senator (Jesse Helms)

    The earliest we would see the doors open on a National Women's Museum would probably be 2030.

    I think it would make a great addition to the National Mall .

    More here....

    House vote likely on creation of women’s history museum
     
    • Agree Agree x 3