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Erasing American history

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Frankie, Dec 6, 2018 at 8:11 PM.

  1. Frankie

    Frankie Vertical

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Good bad and ugly our American history is just that. Nothing we can do today can change that fact. Tearing down statues and desecrating memorials to American solders who fought for what they believed was their freedom and protection of their country, will not change history. It is important to learn from history's lessons so as to never repeat it.
     
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  2. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    /me goes to get some popcorn and a Guinness.

    This should be fun.
     
  3. Lindy

    Lindy Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    Nebraska
    Let's abuse all of those in our past who were too stupid and lacking in foresight to apply 21st Century values to their eighteenth, nineteenth, and twentieth century lives.:rolleyes:
     
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  4. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    What you consider "your" history is not part of the history others experienced.
     
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  5. Lindy

    Lindy Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    Nebraska
    A lot of this is an effort to escape the more unpleasant or embarrassing (how could we have done that) parts of our history. But it won't work.
    Lincoln's 1862 State of the Union Address to Congress: "Fellow citizens, we cannot escape history."

    Enjoy the orchestral prelude in Copland's "Lincoln Portrait" or Abe Lincoln's words start at 8:00 in... It's kind of a low level recording, so turn up the volume. This setting of Lincoln'm words and Carl Sandburg's poetry, The Philadelphia Orchestra, and especially narrator Adlai Stevenson, never fails to uplift and move me.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs6cIi_mKfg&t=5s
     
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  6. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    /me puts down his popcorn.
    Okay, guess I better toss in my two bits.

    As a Jew I don't think we should blot out the embarrassing or awful moments in our history.
    There is too much of a chance of us doing it again.
    If you look at how Germany and Japan has handled the history of their actions during WW II, you will see a massive difference.
    Germany has kept the concentration camps open so people can see the horrors of what happened and teaches the details in their schools.
    They also don't allow people to gloss over or deny that it happened.
    While Japan doesn't teach about the Nijing Massacre, comfort woman, or Section 731.

    The statues people are whining about being taken down are not meant as a way of remembering those mistakes.
    They were put up during the first attempts at a Civil Rights movement after Reconstruction was destroyed.
    You know, the one you don't hear much about because there were hundreds of lynchings and burning down of entire sections of cities to stop it.
    Greenwood, Tulsa - Wikipedia
    The statues were put up to mark parks and sections of town as white controlled, to put fear into POC.
    They were made cheap and fast.
    I have no problem moving them to a museum some place as an example of the kind of shit POC have had to put up with but they do not belong in the city parks and thorough fairs.
     
  7. Frankie

    Frankie Vertical

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Not exactly. Those weren't the statues I was referring too. I was referring to Silent Sam and other confederate monuments and markers from our American Civil war.
     
  8. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    Actually Silent Sam is a perfect example of what I was talking about.
    It was part of that batch of statues put up by The Daughters of the Confederacy in 1913 way after the war was over and during that first Civil Rights movement I mentioned (with all the lynching and burning).
    They were mass designed by Canadian sculptor John Wilson (the dude cranked out a boatload of the damned things).
    You see there was a move to start opening state colleges to black students back then.
    That was put to a quick stop you can damn sure betcha and for proof look no further than having a memorial to a confederate soldier placed at the entrance.

    The Civil War means a lot of things but one thing that it really means is that a bunch of people fought to keep slavery legal.
    The POC who live in that shadow really don't need to be constantly reminded that there was a time when people fought to keep them in chains.
    Making statues to honor those traitors to the United States and as a threat to the citizens living there just isn't a good way to keep our history alive.

    There is a good reason Germany doesn't have memorials to the Nazis.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018 at 10:31 AM
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  9. Frankie

    Frankie Vertical

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Thank you I wasn’t aware of the history of the Silant Sam and Co. statues, as a civil war historian I was holding Silent Sam in the same reverence as the Statues I’ve visited at Gettysburg, Chancellorsville, Fredricksburg battle grounds. Thanks again.
     
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