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Fat shaming

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Richard_Pistols, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. Richard_Pistols

    Richard_Pistols New Member

    EDIT: As a 3 time new member, I have apparently not yet to racked up the points that would allow me to link an article. Feel free to google the NBC4 article "KC Pastor Facing Backlash After Posting Viral Video"
    ____________________________________________

    In the above link, a Kansas City pastor is catching quite a bit of flack for recording a video of a morbidly obese woman in a mobility scooter being towed behind a truck after her scooter got stuck in snow and broke down. The general consensus seems to be that the pastor engaged in "fat shaming" when he recorded the video and posted it to his Facebook page. Having spent a fair amount of time on liberal arts college campuses, I am familiar with the term and its connotations.

    Some people have a harder time maintaining a healthy weight than others. I get that. I don't think that anyone deserves to be aggressively harassed for being overweight. But it seems to me that the term "fat shaming" has shifted in meaning from aggressive harassment of people being overweight to the point that it now includes any expression that ascribes a negative value to being morbidly obese.

    I studied pre-med for two years so I'm basically a licensed doctor in Mexico. To put it in technical terms; being fat as fuck is super unhealthy. I don't think it should be a out-of-bounds to say so publicly or to make an observation (even to make light of) a person suffering from the consequences of their choices.

    I believe that morbid obesity is a choice. Referencing the above link, I believe that being so fat that a mobility scooter is required to bus one's fat ass around is a choice. Leaving one's house in the winter without warm clothing is a choice. Doing so in a mobility scooter knowing full-well that if it breaks down, one is physically incapable of surviving is a choice.

    It's not my place to say that this woman cannot be fat or leave the house; this is America and people can do what they want with their own bodies. But cannot is not should not. I don't think its out of line to ascribe value to the choices that people make. If someone decides to be fat or get a dick-butt tattoo on their face, it's their choice. Doesn't mean I have to respect it or refrain from mocking them.

    Thoughts?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Fangirl

    Fangirl Very Tilted

    Location:
    Arizona
    You have a right to your opinion.
    I don't understand the need to mock a super-fat person, regardless of whether being super-fat is a choice.
    I can't pass judgement. I don't have the story of their life in hand to do so, even if I were inclined to try.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
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  3. omega

    omega Very Tilted

    I don't think fat shaming works. Those people know they are obese. They see it every day. So adding insult to injury isn't going to flip a switch in them that is going to make them say "holy shit?! You mean I'm fat?" That being said, I worry about whether fat acceptance and celebration is going the right way. People like Tess Holliday, who is a size 26 and has 1.2 million followers on instagram. She claims that she is healthy. Clearly delusional. Just because you don't currently have diabetes and heart disease doesn't mean that you are healthy. She is strutting right down that path. The question is, how do we encourage people to be healthier without shaming? How do we say "you are great, and we hope you realize that losing some weight and exercising will make you even better, but you will be so happy when you make that decision on your own and be happy right now until you make that decision to be better than you already are".
     
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  4. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    I work with people who have disabilities and being morbidly obese is counted as a disability.
    There are so many reasons for it that are usually tied into other disabilities that you wouldn't believe.
    We have have a lot of people who come in who say the problem is they are obese and it turns out the real problem is they are severely depressed or manic depressive.
    The fact that is a 'choice' to be obese tends to be a hell of a lot more complicated than you make it sound.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  5. ralphie250

    ralphie250 Fully Erect Donor

    Location:
    At work..
    Let me start this off by saying I am a fat bastard.



    With that being said you say that being morbidly obese is a choice. But let me tell you it is not a choice. There are medical conditions that you have to factor in there are many things to that effect. Am I to the point where I have to have a Mobility Scooter to get around no. I am 6 feet 2 inches 355 pounds. With that being said I have considered looking into the types of weight loss surgery meeting gastric bypass or the lap band and other different things I just have not chosen to do that yet made the choice not to it is still on the air you are correct when you say being fat as fuk is super unhealthy I will give you that because it is unhealthy. But sometimes people don't have in the matter sometimes it's jeans do you are born with

    I used to always be the one in school that made fun of and picked on everyone else. Why did I do this? To be honest with you is because I had bad self esteem myself I found it easier to make fun of the or the ugly one then it was to face the reality that I myself was overweight. With that being said you don't have to respect people but that is what make different generations of people better or worse than others. You don't have to refrain from mocking them, but just remember what if that was your loved one but someone was making fun of or someone that you care about. How would you feel? How would you feel if it was your mom or your sister or your daughter? Think about things before you do them. Do I regret making fun of people and being a bully in school? Yes I do because I am sure I had a negative effect on their life. I am sure at some point in time and their life they have thought about the times that I made fun of them. Do people in the world that are fat like myself know that they are fat yes we know. But it does not make things any easier. So instead of fat shaming as you call it or making fun of someone how about you stop and think how you would want someone to react to someone you cared about. Think about what your mom would or your dad or whoever gave you morals in your life. How would they react would they be proud of you? Or will they be ashamed? We all have things in our life that are hidden from others what if something in your life come out and someone made fun of you for it how would that make you feel?

    Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk
     
    • Like Like x 9
  6. Fangirl

    Fangirl Very Tilted

    Location:
    Arizona
    This speaks to my point about not having the information at the ready to decide who is and isn't healthy. Carrying extra pounds is not in itself indicative of ill health.
    I don't advocate for carrying extra weight but I've been plus-size on and off for decades. There were plenty of reasons why I first got fat as a child that were not strictly my choices. Let me break down a few.

    At age six I moved from Ontario, Canada, where at the time statistically, there were nearly no fat people, to the United States, where we were becoming a fast-food, sedentary nation. I went from walking several miles per day to school, lunch bag in hand, to being bussed and eating cafeteria food. I gained weight. (But there were so many more TV channels in the US!)

    The size acceptance movement goes back to the late 1960's but it wasn't until the popular use of the internet that many of us were even aware of it. I became a proponent of body size acceptance after I came out of a physically abusive marriage, having "armoured" myself with an additional 50 lbs. "Accepting" myself helped me hate myself less.

    I suffered heart failure and nearly died in 1998 at the age of 38. I was diagnosed with idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathy. At my getting-to-know you appointment with my new cardiologist in November, I asked specifically if my weight impacted my health, if we could surmise that being fat contributed to the heart failure. All these years later, the answer is still "no." It surprised me because frankly, I was looking for encouragement to continue with the 70-lb post-heart failure weight loss. But nope, in my case it is not that simple. Instead, I look to my weight loss as a lucky by-product of now living in an environment where 85% of the days are sunny, where molds and mildew do not inflame my sinuses, where vegetables and fruits are plentiful and cheap, where being outside in January is the preferred place to be. In other words, I'm privileged.

    Making blanket statements about a fat person--about any person--is probably ill-advised.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
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  7. Lordeden

    Lordeden Part of the Problem

    Location:
    Redneckhell, NC
    This is an issue I struggle with on a daily basis and I try to see both sides of the argument before I make judgements about people.

    Backstory for those who don't follow me on my personal social media. I was skinny all my life. I got fat over the span of a few years of bad food choices. I lost all the weight I gained and got down to an underweight size with a little bit of extra muslce. In the process of a bulk/cut cycle to get myself to my ideal weight (I'm going to look like Captain America Post Serum).

    For me, I'm proof fat shaming worked. At the height of my weight gain (187 lbs on a 5'5" frame [est. 35%-40%bf]), my mother fat shammed me. I "knew" that a ton of my health issues stemmed from my weight (acid reflux, IBS, heartburn), but it never "clicked" I needed to lose weight. When my mother finally fat shammed me, my brain went "I am a fat ass and I don't need to be". That next day I started on the diet and exercise path I am on today.

    It makes me wonder sometimes that if my mother had not fat shammed me, would I had made this decision to change my lifestyle? My loving and supportive GF had been telling me in a nice way for years that I needed to change my diet. I blew her off so many times, it wasn't funny. I'm sure she almost gave up on me. It took someone calling me FAT to get it to register in my brain that I was fat and it wasn't healthy/normal (for me).

    I will admit, when I see an obese or morbidity obese person, I instantly think they need to lose weight. Sometimes I even invent meal plans and low impact exercise routines for them in my mind. I try and remind myself I don't know them and I can't make snap judgement on them. It's hard because a part of me wants to help them. Show them that diet/exercise can be something that is done in steps and isn't just P90X/4 hour long Zumba classes with someone screaming at them while knocking food out of their hands. Being healthy doesn't mean you are on the cover of Shape/Cosmo/Bodybuilding mags, but just at a healthy weight for their frame.

    I also have a huge problem with the fat acceptance movement. One hand, I fully agree there are society body types shoved down the throats of women in the form of ads, mags, TV, reality shows, ect. Not every women needs a thigh gap and a perfectly flat stomach with no visible stretch marks. If that is your goal, then good for you. Women come in all sorts of sizes and they shouldn't have to be a one sized fits all body type.

    The other hand, I think it gives those people that are morbidity obese (or whatever term is used now-a-days) the option to say, "Fuck it, I'm going to be this weight forever, damn the health concerns". I can't stand seeing Tess Holliday and think that she is one of the worst people to be at the top of the HAES movement. I think she is a horrible spokesperson and also promotes an unhealthy lifestyle. I like Iskra lawrence over Tess Holliday, but even Iskra is coming under fire lately because she has lost weight and people are screaming at her because she is a HAES proponent and wants to lose weight.

    So, yeah. Conflicted. I want nothing else to help people get healthier (in whatever form that is) and have often reached out to friends about it. I've signed two people up for the gym and shown them that exerise isn't just endless Zumbafuck classes. I feel better than I have ever felt in my life after I lost weight and I think if people could see how they will feel after weight loss, they would want to make a lifestyle change as well.

    I want to leave my convoluted statement with my favorite weight loss story. Jesse Shand was a 650 pound "internet troll" and spent most of his days sitting on the couch playing video games and trolling online. He one day stopped by the bodybuilding.com forums and started trolling the forums. Instead of hate, he got support and ended up listening to them. This started him on his journey to lose over 300 pounds.

    350 Pounds And Counting: Jesse Shand's Incredible Weight-Loss Journey


    EDIT: I also want to say, I was on the male end of skinny-shamming for most of my life. If I had a dollar for every time I was told to "eat a sandwich", "You are toothpick thin" "Ewww, you are way to skinny to date" "If we fucked, I'd break you"... I could afford all the supplements I'd like to take. There is other sides to this but that's a whole other topic.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
    • Like Like x 2
  8. POPEYE

    POPEYE Very Tilted

    Location:
    Tulsa
    Fat Shaming, no not ever. I have always been HWP. Lucky or chemical, I don't know. My last few years have seen more pounds. However when I am engaged with someone it is my eyes or personality I am putting out there.I don't like being judged on my looks and therefore do not project that on to them during interaction. OBESITY is not attractive or sexually stimulating to me. That being said, people with a few extra pounds have been my lovers most of my life. It was the person I saw inside them that turned me on.
     
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  9. Fangirl

    Fangirl Very Tilted

    Location:
    Arizona
    I too, have complicated feelings towards very large people. It brings up my own body shame.

    Appearance is such a personal thing, discussing it can feel like tiptoeing around landmines.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  10. Lindy

    Lindy Moderator Staff Member

    Location:
    Nebraska
    This is all from my fortyish, female, small town perspective, and I've never been fat. I wonder at what point caring 'peer pressure' like @Lordeden talks about can transform into vicious 'fat shaming.' I come from a family of mostly leans and smalls. 5'10" is tall in my extended family. Of all my siblings, aunts/uncles, cousins, nieces/nephews, grandparents I can only think of a couple that could be characterized as 'fat.'And definitely the target of some mostly well meaning humor. "Uncle Damon sure is looking prosperous." We are mostly rural and of mostly Scandinavian and Hispanic ethnicity. Folks not especially known for being skinny. So, I think we must be somehow genetically blessed. As far as I now, no one in my family has married a fatty.

    I've noticed that this is the self selection that happens, perhaps to allow self esteem to persist. Fat associates with fat and lean with lean. Mostly. As folks get older, they tend to get heavier. At some point, people tend to give up the ship, and don't care anymore. What is the 'plus sized' twenty-something going to be like at fifty? And in society, personal self discipline is definitely on the wane.
    I have friends of all shapes and sizes, but have only had one lover that was fat. Fat is just totally unattractive past a certain point. This was obvious at the titty bars where I danced. On 'amateur nite' sometime an inebriated heavy girl would get catcalls of 'put it back on' Pretty people get to fuck with other pretty people. The fit get to fuck the fit, but fit has such a different meaning for/to men and women. A girl pretty much has to be lean to be considered fit. Personals ads use 'fit female' as a code for 'not fat.' Men, on the other hand, can be considerably overweight and still be considered fit as long as they are exceptionally strong. Fifty pounds overweight, but can bench press a Toyota Corolla seems to be OK.
    Well, I'm digressing all over the place. Time to quit writing and post.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & don't criticize. Donor

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    What I could say has pretty much been said, so I'll keep it simple.

    Are there morbidly obese people who eat too much crap food, and don't exercise? Yes.

    Are there people who are morbidly obese because of physical and/or mental health issues, and/or genetics? Yes.

    Even if you can tell the difference--yeah, right--you have no right to fat shame anyone.
     
  12. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    In keeping with my previous post I was talking with one of the counselors about the subject and she said that a very high number of the obese woman she had come to her were victims of sexual abuse as children.
    They used the food as a way of control that they didn't have otherwise.

    So yeah, fat shaming sure as fuck isn't going to work in cases like that.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. martian

    martian Server Monkey Staff Member

    Location:
    Mars
    Fat shaming in my experience is rarely about the fat person. It's a way for someone to reinforce their own self-worth at the expense of somebody else. There's nothing to stop you from mocking fat people but there's also nothing to be gained from it except, I guess, some sense of superiority on your part. And if you do it there's nothing to stop me from thinking that you're an asshole. And, personally, I'd rather spend a day with a hundred decent fat people than one skinny asshole.

    Wanting to help people be healthier is not fat shaming, in my opinion. Encouraging people to be better versions of themselves seems fine, as long as you aren't a dick about it, and realize that ultimately you have to respect their autonomy too. Ain't none of us perfect; I got enough shit in my closet that I won't judge someone for not being fit and lean. Sumthin sumhin without sin sumthin sumthin.

    I think if you're really bothered by fat people the first thing to do is look for reasons why they might be fat. Socioeconomic disadvantages are probably a good place to start. Yelling at people about being irresponsible might feel good to you but it won't do shit to solve problems.

    Just my two cents.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  14. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    While I have never "fat shamed" anyone in public or at work, I do have big problems with the "obesity acceptance" movement and big is beautiful stuff. I do have a problem with workaholics who are obese, even if they are financially successful, I don't recognize it because they put money in front of their own health. And the poor people who are obese and are on disability or racking up medical bills are a big problem too because that impacts other people's taxes and premiums. The plus sized models that are size 16 or whatever aren't fat and aren't the issue. And getting offended by someone posting a video of an obese person getting towed isn't a problem either and people need to lighten up.

    Now, yes, I think that medical researchers need to figure out if it is hormones, bacteria, genes, lack of nutrients, quantity of food, something in the food, or whatever is the cause of obesity. I'm in favor of taxes on soda, doughnuts, deep fried foods, and chips. The overweight kids should be put on diets and made to do cardio two times a day at school. Improve the food served at schools and teach kids how to grow food and cook it. Reduce the amount of Summer Break to make up the classes they missed if they are cheating at home and eating bad food. If it is a mental health thing, deal with it when they are young.

    The thing is that there has been junk food for years and years. And buffetts and large portion sizes existed too. HFCS is a suspect, and so is increased screen time, but what else happened in the past 20 years that would make 15%-20%+ of the adults in the country gain so much weight?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
  15. Fangirl

    Fangirl Very Tilted

    Location:
    Arizona
    Size acceptance is about accepting all sizes, from very thin to very fat. Sometimes, I like to remember my spouse's super-thin family and how hard the men in particular, struggled to gain weight and keep it on. We both struggled for decades striving for what we believed were better body types. I marvel at the emotion of some against fat folks but nothing against skinny people. It's all a choice, right? The value judgements boggle my mind. And the indignity. Of all the crimes one can commit against society, surely being a fat person is among the worst.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. MeltedMetalGlob

    MeltedMetalGlob Resident Loser Donor

    Location:
    Who cares, really?
    I recall the first time I ever heard of fat shaming: in 1997, when "Batman & Robin" was released, and the press made fun of Alicia Silverstone for having difficulty squeezing herself into her costume (they dubbed her "fatgirl".)

    Of all the problems that movie had, Alicia Silverstone was not one of them. This is what she looked like in the film:
    [​IMG]

    I honestly doubt any of her critics looked as nearly as good in form-fitting Spandex.

    On an unrelated note, if such a superhero existed in real life, I would immediately declare myself a supervillain and move to whatever city she was operating in, just so she would chase me down. Of course, when she finally would catch up with me, there would be none of that fist-fighting "Boom", "Pow", "Crunch" nonsense, oh no!

    I would insist she wrestle me down to the ground in order to slap those handcuffs on me.

    [​IMG]

    ...and only then, justice would be served. ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
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  17. omega

    omega Very Tilted

    One thing that's interesting about the fat acceptance movement is that it's only by and for women. Men are not accepted and are ridiculed. There are no fat man pinups or vargas style outfits. When Fam women show their men, they are inevitably skinny.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. martian

    martian Server Monkey Staff Member

    Location:
    Mars
    Well that's a bump.

    I don't spend a lot of time on Tumblr or Twitter so I don't know what's going on there, but a quick response would probably be something along the lines of that's probably related to the fact that men are judged far less harshly on appearance than women are. Like, "fat guy, hot wife" has been a media trope in sitcoms pretty much as long as they've existed, but "hot guy, fat wife" isn't really a thing. Or, y'know, I can go out in public in jeans and a t-shirt as long as they don't have any visible stains and not really give a shit about my hair or whether my complexion is even or pimples or god knows what else. Nobody's going to comment on that shit.

    That's not to say that men don't get judged on appearance, mind you, just that it's less pervasive. I think as dudes it's one of those things that can be difficult for us to understand. Like, I (and probably you) don't get catcalled. Ever. It's just not a thing. Creepy girls don't follow me around sometimes for no apparent reason. People don't comment on my appearance in public, as far as I know. Nobody ever suggests that I should smile more or less than I currently do (although I smile much more post-fatherhood, if it matters). If you think I'm making this stuff up, ask a woman in your life. Any one will do. They all know.

    So I guess in that sense fat acceptance falls under the broader umbrella of feminism in that it's not okay to judge women based solely on their appearance. I mean, it's not okay to judge anyone based solely on their appearance, but this is a problem that women face exponentially more often so it makes sense to talk about their experience of it exponentially more.

    I don't necessarily support or oppose the fat acceptance movement except that I think picking on fat people because of their weight is a dick move and you shouldn't do that. I mostly don't think of it at all to be perfectly honest, since it seems to be mostly an internet outrage thing that doesn't really affect the real world in any meaningful way. It's right up there with all the other "SJW" stuff in that I see far more complaints about it than anything else. Some people just like to be outraged, I guess.
     
  19. omega

    omega Very Tilted

    Sure and I had thought about how women have faced a lot more discrimination based on looks, no doubt about it. I have also to my knowledge not really been hit on because of my looks. It was the double standard I was pointing out. But it's true, I have not met a Fam woman personally, just a lot of noise on the Internet.
    And it may be a thread bump, bit not much else is going on.
     
  20. Cayvmann

    Cayvmann Very Tilted

    I must be in a sit-com, because I'm a fat guy with a hot wife. I also get no respect...
     
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