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first handgun

Discussion in 'Tilted Weaponry' started by ralphie250, Mar 18, 2017.

  1. buzzgunner

    buzzgunner 180 gr. of diplomacy

    "Clip" may have been used more commonly when referring to a "magazine", but it was as incorrect then as it is now. A clip and a magazine have two separate and distinct functions. The function of a clip is to hold ammunition prior to inserting the ammunition into a magazine, which sometimes is the same as directly loading a firearm, as is the case of some guns that use en-bloc clips (such as the M1 Garand) or guns that use stripper clips (such as Mauser C96 or Lee-Enfield.) The function of a magazine is to store ammunition within the firearm and feed individual cartridges into the chamber each time the firearm action cycles. This is true for all firearm magazines, whether or not the magazine is fixed (inside the firearm) or is removable.

    "Clip" and "magazine" are about as interchangeable as "cat" and "dog".
    Well, they're aren't exactly interchangeable. You "charge" a gun when you "chamber" a cartridge.
    • Like Like x 1
  2. MeltedMetalGlob

    MeltedMetalGlob Resident Loser Donor

    Who cares, really?
    I get a little miffed when an author starts interchanging "pistol" with "revolver", because I assume they know the difference and it gets confusing because I start to think a character has two separate guns when he only has one.
  3. buzzgunner

    buzzgunner 180 gr. of diplomacy

    Too true!
  4. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Large City, TX
    Unfortunately many authors frequently include things where their knowledge is clearly lacking in their works.


    We, my wife & I, are now waiting for our respective LCHs to be mailed. I did a fair amount of research on-line regarding pistols (semi-autos) that would be suitable for concealed carry, and we visited several gun stores to handle various models and ask questions.

    The S&W Shield 9 received many positive reviews, was most frequently recommended (not just by folks hoping we would buy from them) and it felt comfortable & secure in the hand (with the eight round magazine which has a pinky extension).

    My wife purchased a Shield 9 '1.0' PC model (improved trigger, better sights, & ported barrel). I won't bore you with the details, the specs & reviews are easily found.

    Our initial impression using standard round nose ammo at the gun range is very positive, but we still need to try a few different brands of defense
    ammo (that will be our next visit to the range). The gripe I have is the slide release is not only really tight, but it requires moving the slide back a bit before it will release. I'm going ask around and do some reading to see if this is normal for the Shield 9.

    I'm leaning towards a Shield 2.0 for concealed carry. But I'm keeping an open mind.

    I've told my wife she needs to start researching holsters now, because the number of choices will be overwhelming, with some being Do Not Bother and some being highly recommended.

    The Texas LCH allows concealed and open carry.
    Some people use the term LTC, others LCH.

    Enough for now.
  5. buzzgunner

    buzzgunner 180 gr. of diplomacy

    I'm not a fan of S&W semi-autos, but that's just me. If they're comfortable and reliable for you, that's all that matters.

    As a firearms instructor of many, many years, I strongly encourage my students to avoid using the slide lock to release the slide, the main reason being that sufficient use in that manner will wear the trailing edge of the slide lock to the point where it will no longer catch and hold the slide after the last shot is fired.

    By the same token, you should never release the slide by grabbing it ahead of or directly over the ejection port, as there is a small but non-zero possibility that the ejector spur on the bolt face may impinge on the cartridge primer, causing and out-of-battery discharge. Trust when I say that you don't want your hand anywhere NEAR the ejection port when that happens. (FYI, as much as I love Glocks, their long ejector spurs make this mishap marginally more likely than with other brands.)

    The preferred (and safest) way to release the slide is to use the "slingshot method". While holding the pistol in your dominant hand, pinch the rear of the slide with the thumb and forefinger of your off hand. Pull the slide back just far enough for the slide lock to disengage, then let go of the slide and allow the recoil spring to drive the slide forward into battery lock-up. (FYI, most modern semi-autos have serrations on either side of the slide at the rear, specifically for the purpose of enhancing your grip while performing the "slingshot".)
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Large City, TX
    I'm working on not getting into the habit of using the slide release only; it only takes a couple of seconds to 'two hand' it, esp. when shooting at the gun range.

    My experience with newer and more modern semi-autos is limited. Way back in the early '80s, when I was a firearms enthusiast, the debate over revolvers vs semi-autos was still hot, and the selection of SAs was limited.

    Related note...our LCHs arrived yesterday. Which means I'm needing to accelerate my decision regarding a suitable CC handgun, how to carry it, & what holster would be best. IWB seems to be best for less bulky holsters, while OWB seems to be best for comfort while sitting and also moving around. The choices for either are overwhelming. We're currently concentrating on an OWB for the Shield 9 for my wife; at the same time I'm looking at some of the IWB holsters.

    I like the idea of handling the holster in person, and we're fortunate to have several stores near us. Of course on-line is an option.
  7. omega

    omega Very Tilted

    What did you think of it and what was he asking for it? That is what I carried on the patrol for 4 years. A .40 caliber is known to hit pretty hard but it is snappy and a little harder to send a lot of rounds downrange quickly in my experience. My beretta .40 is all metal and that extra weight soaks up some of the recoil. Though after training with the m&p for about 1500 rounds I fired my beretta and I could actually feel the slide action working back and forth. Just a slower slide with it.
  8. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Large City, TX
    @ralphie250, which M&P 40 model does/did the guy have? Did you get a chance to shoot it?
  9. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    The slide release is a disposable wear item on modern pistols as it is made out of a piece of bent sheet metal (Glock, 320, M&P, etc.). I've had to replace several over the years. They cost a few bucks. It is part of the regular maintenance inspection on the pistol along with the recoil spring, extractor, etc. Without a slide release, the gun will turn into a Hi-Point: you'll know you're empty when the firing pin clicks. If you're spending money on a pistol, spend some money on some basic repair parts.

    Use the slide release if that is what you wanna use. I myself use the slide release with the dominant hand thumb for most situations and immediately transition to racking with the support hand over the rear of the slide as a response to a malfunction.

    I'm not a fan of the slingshot method because it uses the least amount of contact with the gun (two finger pads) to perform the most strength-intensive task on a pistol (racking the slide). The slingshot method also doesn't work well on weapons with short height slides (CZ-75) or slide-mounted safeties (Beretta). I prefer over-the-top, thumb-toward-chest as it uses the bicep to pull and the thenor (meaty base of the thumb) and all the finger pads on the slide serrations.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  10. buzzgunner

    buzzgunner 180 gr. of diplomacy

    That's a valid point. However, I teach women (or any student with smaller or weaker hands) to use a Modified Slingshot. Instead of using the thumb and forefinger, grip the rear of the slide with the entire non-dominant hand, such that the pad of the hand (at the base of the little finger) is pointed towards the muzzle end of the gun, but still well behind the ejection port. Aside from that modified grip, manual of operation remains the same.

    (Actually, after re-reading your post, I realized that I just described exactly the same thing that you detailed. My bad!)

    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 23, 2018, Original Post Date: Aug 23, 2018 ---
    I agree with you regarding the .40 S&W cartridge. It has a much steeper recoil spike than either 9mm Para or .45 ACP. After carrying a Glock 23 for a few years, I switched to a short frame 1911. The .45 ACP cartridge is much more comfortable to shoot and yet still delivers more KE to the target. The only downside is the reduced magazine capacity. (I'd carry a double-stack, but it's bulky and doesn't conceal as well.)
  11. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Caliber Wars 2018:

    The only value of .40 S&W or .45 ACP in 2018 is for saving a few bucks when you pick up a used LEO gun or for shooting through vehicles (40 S&W 180s are apparently pretty good at going through auto bodies and thus popular with state troopers, a group that often uses bigger, larger caliber sidearms).

    The added recoil (a proper .40 S&W loading) and severely reduced magazine capacity (every .45 ACP) of the larger service calibers combined with the penetration and expansion of modern projectiles (HST, Gold Dot, Ranger T) makes getting a carry pistol that isn't a 9mm a real head-scratcher. If you legitimately need power in a service-size pistol, you should probably step up to .357 Sig (.40 frame) or 10mm (.45 frame). Both of those come with added rare ammo costs on top of the premium you're already paying for .40 or .45 (simply because both rounds use more raw materials; compare the price of a case of 9mm vs .45 with the same type of bullets) but sometimes you just gotta throw ashtrays at a mofo. It's why .458 SOCOM is a thing (a beautiful thing).

    Kinetic energy is largely irrelevant in the low velocity handgun ammunition discussion: you kill people by either disabling vital organs (brain, heart) or they bleed to death from damage caused by holes poked in them that sever arteries and veins, preferably done by jagged expanded hollowpoints. Assuming you follow the Lucky Gunner ballistic tests, the difference between 9mm, .40 and .45 here is truly minimal: a proper round in each caliber does ~16" of penetration and gets you ~.75" expansion.

    The speed and precision at which one can fire a Glock 17 multiple times as well as the basic load magazine capacity difference (G17 = 51 vs G22 = 45 vs G21 = 39) means you are getting the most firepower in the smallest package using a boring-ass 9mm.
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
  12. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Large City, TX
    My understanding, based on the research I did regarding 9mm vs .40, is a 9mm self-defense round will provide adequate penetration & expansion to severely injure or kill (depending on shot placement) a person. Unless the recipient happens to be wearing very thick winter clothing (Hornady has ammo, Critical Defense, that is supposed to penetrate at least some layers clothing before expanding).

    We currently keep our three 9s loaded with Critical Defense. I need to test the American 9 and the SR9C using the Hornady American Gunner +P 124 gr XTP. I honestly don't know if the +P has any real advantages over standard loads. I'm still needing to test the Federal HST micro in the Shield.
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018