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Gadhafi regime crumbling...and fast

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by Baraka_Guru, Aug 21, 2011.

Page 3 of 11
  1. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    www.iuhuru.com/2011/06/us-gadhafi-dead/
    Saddam wanted to switch from dollars to Euros for oil back in 2002, Gadaffi wanted to switch OPEC from dollars to gold...

    Now it is making a lot more sense. Too bad for Africa, if they had gone along with Gadaffi, they would be rich. Now they get to tumble with the falling US dollar with us.
     
    ASU2003, Sep 3, 2011
    #41
  2. issmmm

    issmmm Getting Tilted

    Gadhafi and his top military guy are reported dead
    either by NATO airstrikes or by rebels as he attempted to flee
     
    issmmm, Oct 20, 2011
    #42
  3. Derwood

    Derwood Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    What I've read was that he was found (like Hussein) in a hole. He was then paraded around (alive) Mussolini style before being summarily executed. There are some "death pics" and videos out there, but I'll let you find them yourselves
     
    Derwood, Oct 20, 2011
    #43
  4. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    Hopefully conditions in Libya will improve now.
     
    ASU2003, Oct 20, 2011
    #44
  5. EDDIE

    Eddie Getting Tilted

    Yeah, the Arab Spring has swapped out a bunch of crooked capitalists with a nice crop of Islamist extremists. Yay! Let the terrorism begin!
     
    Eddie, Oct 20, 2011
    #45
  6. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Putting aside the fact that Ghaddafi was a bit more oppressive and brutal than a crooked capitalist, most of the leadership among the opposition in both Egypt and Libya are western educated and have no association with any terrorist organization. Those in the US claiming terrorist connections are the same as those claiming that Sharia law is a threat in the US.

    Can you identify those opposition/transition leaders in Libya or Egypt who are Islamic extremists?

    But evidently, we're not supposed to challenge you to support your allegations with facts.
     
    redux, Oct 20, 2011
    #46
  7. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    What extremists are you talking about?

    The "Arab Spring" consists of vast mobilizations of people who revolted and are revolting against authoritarianism/dictatorship, political corruption and censorship, police brutality, electoral fraud and are seeking democratic reform and constitutional guarantees of personal and economic freedom.

    What makes you think "a nice crop" of Islamic extremists are taking the places of the former leadership? Many of the leaderships are still in place. Other leaderships are changing through democratic political channels.

    Sure there are Islamic extremist elements seeking to fill in vacuums of power. The threat is real. But it hasn't happened. Not yet anyway.

    If it had happened by now, Americans would already be going ape-shit about it. Of course, they wouldn't be the only ones.

    One case to look at is the new Tunisia leadership. Does it consist of Islamic extremists, or are they just secular socialists cum neoliberals?

    There is an election coming up. The main parties consist of a moderate Islamic party (a largely secular and socially liberal one), a secular democratic party, and a social democratic party. Hardly extremists.
     
    Baraka_Guru, Oct 20, 2011
    #47
  8. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Absolutely, I would expect Islamic extremists to seek positions in the legislatures of these emerging democracies but there is no evidence that they have wide spread popular support at any level.

    To those on the US right, democracy in a Muslim country must meet a litmus test and support western values to be acceptable to the US.
     
    redux, Oct 20, 2011
    #48
  9. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    What's foreign to a lot of Americans is the idea that there are political parties in Europe and the Middle East that don't have a full separation of "church and state." There are Christian democratic parties; there are Islamic democratic parties. Many of them are essentially secular but run on platforms based on the values of their respective religions. Kind of like how much of the Western world is essentially built on Judeo-Christian values but more overtly carried out.

    Chancellor Merkel of Germany is a part of the CDU (Christian Democratic Union), a centre-right party built on liberal conservatism via Christian social teachings. Many of these parties have secularlized, and so much of the religious moral stuff has been reigned in.

    Then you get places like Turkey, which went through a process of political secularization.

    Then you get places like Kuwait, which is a constitutional parliamentary monarchy.

    Then you get the great pals of the U.S., Saudi Arabia, which is a fucking backwater Islamic monarchy.

    It varies. The U.S. tends to get nervous when it knows it can't exert enough influence. Whether it's democratic, Islamic, or whatever is secondary, I think.
     
    Baraka_Guru, Oct 21, 2011
    #49
  10. samcol

    samcol Getting Tilted

    Location:
    indiana
    launching wars without congressional approval and killing heads of state. this is the peace prize president's legacy. the pictures of gadaffi just brought me right back of to the bush year's of illegal torture and other atrocities. people are really going to vote for this guy again which is crazy. enjoy 4 more years of wars against brown people.
     
    samcol, Oct 21, 2011
    #50
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Woah, woah, woah! What?
     
    Baraka_Guru, Oct 21, 2011
    #51
  12. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    An illegal war against brown people for the US, in compliance with the War Powers Act and as part of a NATO initiative with a UN mandate, to assist in protecting the people of a nation under threats of mass slaughter by an oppressive regime when that regime itself is threatened by a popular uprising and to support that uprising w/o invasion and occupation?

    As opposed to the Bush Doctrine of pre-emptive invasion and occupation.
     
    redux, Oct 21, 2011
    #52
  13. KirStang

    KirStang Something Patriotic.

    Location:
    In the 17 Judicial Circuit
    KirStang, Oct 21, 2011
    #53
  14. issmmm

    issmmm Getting Tilted

    I thought that he inherited a couple wars that he has tried to wind down
    I thought that the only thing he kept alive from the previous administration was the drone strikes. And those were increased and were more successful (possibly because the previous intelligence was improved upon)
    The only people this President has killed that I know of have been leaders of the NON STATE terroist organizations
    I thought that he kept the "US" out of the Lybian conflict and let NATO deal with it. Granted how much control we have of NATO is arguable.

    Hell in his acceptance speach for the Nobel Prize he talked about how sometimes you have to kick ass to acheive peace.

    I am failing to see what you see.
    Please to explain
     
    issmmm, Oct 21, 2011
    #54
  15. samcol

    samcol Getting Tilted

    Location:
    indiana
    ya we kept out of libya with our 'kinetic' actions. it's all double speak now. there's no withdrawing from iraq or aphganistan, obama has no intentions of doing so.

    why does he even have the right to kill non state terrorist leaders?

    he's a dictator pure and simple. he took the power that bush grabbed and added to it. obama ,by himself, waged war against libya and killed their leader. the entire revolutionary war was fought over this. they didn't want a single person to be judge, jury, and executioner. this is the system we have now. if a republican gets elected do you really want him to have all the powers obama has taken?
     
    samcol, Oct 21, 2011
    #55
  16. Spiritsoar

    Spiritsoar Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    New York
    Well, maybe not permanent and total withdrawal, but there certainly has been a significant reduction in troop levels, at least in Iraq. I've seen it.
     
    Spiritsoar, Oct 21, 2011
    #56
  17. Remixer

    Remixer Middle Eastern Doofus

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Your views on the current situation of this part of the world are deeply flawed, Eddie.

    Especially in Libya and Egypt, if there's a large following of extremist Islam, it's largely due to your country funding those brutal dictators as well as the CIA/MI6 actively helping to identify Egyptian/Libyan dissidents, who were then subjected to torture. You have nothing to complain about.

    Notwithstanding the previous, the popular movements in Egypt and Libya are very moderate. They like the extremists less than you do.
     
    Remixer, Oct 21, 2011
    #57
  18. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Legitimate concerns, but...

    Really? You really think this?

    The Civil War in Libya

    NATO Intervention in Libya: How 19 Nations Came Together to Prevent an Atrocity

    Libyan-American War: If You Want Something Done Right, You Gotta Do It Youself

    America Takes Libya: Obama vs. Gaddafi (Volume One: Obamanation Overseas)

    Did I get it right?

    Did Obama wear a cape?
     
    Baraka_Guru, Oct 21, 2011
    #58
  19. Derwood

    Derwood Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Wait, wait, wait.....AMERICA killed Gadhafi? What alternate dimension did THAT happen in?
     
    Derwood, Oct 21, 2011
    #59
  20. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    No, silly. It was Obama.
     
    Baraka_Guru, Oct 21, 2011
    #60
    • Like Like x 2
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