Politics Gun violence in CT

Baraka_Guru

It is certainly a complex issue. To be fair (or in my defense rather) I'm a multiple gun owner who has already stated that perhaps it is time to revisit the regulation on assault weapons. I can see that, understand it, would go along with it even if I didn't fully agree with it. However, to assume that if we regulate these inanimate objects that are clearly the focal point of sarcasm in this thread would stop bent people from carrying out acts such as these is just... naive for lack of a better term.

I hear people saying regulate! but I don't hear how.

 

The news coming out claims that the shooter, Ryan Lanza, shot his father in NJ this morning then traveled to CT and shot his mother who worked at the elementary school as a kindergarten teacher. Killing and wounding many more, in the process.

I agree Glory's Sun, the main issue is mental illness. But there is also our inability as a society to properly identify those who are mentally unstable/a danger to the rest of us and either treat them effectively or remove the weapons they can use to harm us - to the best of our ability. How to get from point A to point Z? Not sure but doing nothing doesn't seem to be working.

Do we remove short term solutions from the discussion because they are not the ultimate solution?

 

Why are we the ones who are naive? It's very easy to speculate one way or another. It's quite another thing to bet your entire hand on it. I don't claim to have the answers. I say that all ideas are on the table. And those who have a problem with that? Well, I question their motives.

 

we can sit here and spit back and forth on this all day it isn't going to accomplish anything. I'm just pointing out that I fail to see how banning all guns would stop someone who is clearly bent from committing mass murder. There are always less than legal ways of obtaining inanimate objects. I'm merely asking where does it end.
--- merged: Dec 14, 2012 at 3:16 PM ---
so perhaps I should take a cue from Plan9 and bow out of a gun control thread.

 

My point is that oftentimes, the people who commit these types of crimes are not necessarily 'criminal-minded.' I DON'T think it's safe to assume that all of these people would attempt to acquire guns illegally if they didn't have them at hand. Some might, but other tragedies might be avoided. Isn't that worth something? Isn't that more important than a crappy gun collection and bunch of knee jerk reactions about the 2nd amendment? Therefore, if someone tells me that the discussion of more regulation is off the table, I think they have screwed up priorities.

 

twice in this thread I've said revisiting regulation on assault weapons is fine.

Baraka_Guru

this article shows it is lower, but does concede that among other "wealthy" nations we are high in gun violence.

PolitiFact | Facebook post says the U.S. is No. 1 in gun violence. Is it?

 

uhh

dude, I just said it conceded the fact.

I was posting that before I saw your post so whatevs I'll just bow out of this one b/c guns are too much of a hot topic for me.

(even though I agree assault weapon regulations should be looked at again)

 

There's been thread after thread on this topic where plenty of suggestions and ideas have been expressed, only to be summarily shot down by the same straw men time and time again. A serious discussion cannot develop when one party draws a line in the sand that no one is allowed to step over. Your question is just such a line.

I want to blame guns more than those who wield them but the truth is, I don't. I'm fucking beside myself with anger at this coward. This grown man who had to kill and wound innocent children to demonstrate the depth of his own rage at his parents. Right now, it's not about the guns for me but later, it will be. They are not the problem, but they are a problem.

 

Until we know the facts (if we ever do) we can't know whether the timing is relevant. However, this time of year is known for being stressful so it's a reasonable question.

 

Are there two Ryan Lanzas in Newtown, CT or only one? Was a Ryan Lanza the actual shooter or was it Ryan Lanza's younger brother, Adam who did the shooting? Who is the dead guy the media claims is Ryan Lanza and who is the Ryan Lanza who is still alive posting on facebook? Where is Adam Ryan? If he was the shooter, impersonating his older brother and the shooter is dead, who is the second shooter authorities may or may not have in custody?

WTF. Reality show journalism.

From now on I'm waiting at least 48 hours before listening to anything the media reports on anything of any consequence.

Daily Dot | Did the media target the wrong Ryan Lanza?

 

The notion that we should only focus on the mental illness component of random acts of gun violence and not the easy access to guns in the US as well is just madness.

 

it seems to me that folk who ideologically or aesthetically oppose even a coherent discussion about gun controls would like to run this matter to ground by making two moves:

the one that baraka's already pointed out, the "if these regulations won't solve everything then why bother?"---an argument that's absurd (and boring because it happens over and over again---the logical conclusion is prohibitions against murder don't stop all murder so why regulate murder)

here, there's a variant that involves a false equation of gun violence with other forms of violence and then recourse to some fiction called "the human condition" ... this is a version of an argument from original sin---or of that facile misanthropy used by repressive institutions everywhere because it makes them seem necessary.

then there's a move to tie this entirely to particularities--as if this tragedy comes as a suprise---which it shouldn't given the number of school shootings since columbine and the casualty rate (the collateral damage of weak gun regulation, let's call it for fun). in this move, we focus on the disturbingly disturbed disturbness of this individual unlike any other. a Bad Person, one quite apart from "normal" people. regulations wouldnt have stopped him, it is typically asserted.... which shows this to be just another version of the old canard "if you regulate guns only bad people will have them"...


i think it's obvious that there has to be a real discussion about this gun business. and as gary younge said in an edito from the guardian about this earlier, what's appalling about this in the united states is that there is never, ever a good time for it. we, collectively, just can't seem to get it together.

Newtown shootings: if not now, when is the time to talk about gun control? | Gary Younge | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk


if we want to link this to mental health services in the states, that's fine...but its a complex and kind ugly history that one gets to....much of which speaks to yet another instance of well-intentioned ideas that did not turn out as planned (deinstitutionalization) and of the inertia that seems particularly american that prevents any coherent re-evaluation of what turned out to be a very bad idea.
--- merged: Dec 14, 2012 at 4:41 PM ---
o....btw you might want to read this:

Twelve facts about guns and mass shootings in the United States