History repeating itself.

As oil prices skyrocket and talk of war for oil continues.... remember in 1939 when the Japanese held control of Rubber, it was FDR who decided why pay our enemies for rubber goods. Thus FDR enacted a program to make synthetic rubber. Goodyear, Firestone, Goodrich and United States Rubber all shared in the information and processes to make synthetic rubber.​

The point is history is now repeating itself, there is talk of war and oil is skyrocketing.... much like 1939 only it was RUBBER. It's a HISTORICAL FACT that had we had our own rubber, we wouldn't have cared and continued using it, BUT Japan controlled 90% of the rubber. Thus when we went to war we needed a synthetic. In 1940, one of the GOP's issues against FDR was the costly plan to stockpile and create a "synthetic rubber". It was too costly and the USA couldn't afford it. In hindsight we could not have afforded to be without it.​

Much is made how in the early years of WW2 we were losing badly, HOWEVER if one looks to the synthetic RUBBER processes and production, once they were in full motion, we started winning. Not saying or trying to imply that was a reason we won but it helped.​

We are a sleeping giant nation, that is why since WW2 our nation's leaders have always had an enemy "the Cold War", Korea, Vietnam, drugs (which failed immensely and has been the costliest), Iraq, Afghanistan and now perhaps Iran... We are a sleeping giant just as we were in the 20's and 30's.... BUT when awakened we are the most inventive ingenious nation ever on this planet... unfortunately and historically it takes "war" to awaken us and get us to work together. There will be war for oil and we'll have causalities (I pray none affect your families0 But in the end we'll get off our oil addiction just as we got off our rubber addiction. ​

A National Historic Chemical Landmark: United States Synthetic Rubber Program​

--- merged: Mar 21, 2012 at 4:52 PM ---
If Bismark declared Russia "the sleeping bear", we are the "sleeping Lion", this is all history repeating itself. 20 years from now, people will wonder why we went to war for something as passe as oil. We knew it's been coming, hence the speed up of hybrid technology.

Global warming was IMHO, an excuse to scare the people into hybrid technology sooner, but that didn't work. So here we are on the precipice of what appears to be $800 barrels and war with Iran... If you artificially raise prices to the point people will not buy the product, then people will buy the hybrid technology. Plain and simple.

 

If you look deeper into history, there was Prohibition, where, many accused the government of a costly expense of overcrowding jails with otherwise innocent people (can anyone say "war on drugs"? There were severe weather patterns (hence the dust bowl). The history between the 2 eras is astounding and cannot nor should not be ignored.

 

Except for a few and they are iffy (the UAE, Kuwait, Iraq, Saudi Arabia), there are far more countries that would like to see our doom (such as Venezuela, Iran, possibly Angola, Algeria, Nigeria). As far as I know OPEC isn't a political bonding of nations as much as it is to control oil production and exportation to regulate prices, so one country can't cut another's throat AND IF Iran decides to sell oil cheaper to Russia and China affecting the others profits enough.... they may get a little pissed at Iran.

What did OPEC nations do when Iran and Iraq were at war? What exactly did they do when Iraq invaded Kuwait?

The point is I don't see OPEC being much of a war entity in and of itself. Venezuela and Ecuador may align themselves with Iran, but I seriously doubt it.

It's the same as Rubber in the late 30's, where we had to find ways to get around Japan, only we had access to far less rubber. WE DO HOWEVER have far more access to oil.

We export more oil than we import. What Energy Problem? U.S. Oil Exports Are on the Rise | Fin - Daily Ticker - US - Yahoo! Finance

So while we can not control who private countries sell oil to, in the case of war, those countries would be frowned upon immensely especially if we see $800 barrels and a serious rise at the pumps. We'll demand alternative energies and the government hopefully will put the development of such on warp speed, thus we won't need to import oil once the war is over.

I'm not saying we use oil as reason for war, BUT I AM SAYING THAT WITH WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT OIL AND IRAN IS NOTHING NEW, we have been in this position before only with rubber and Japan. Do we rely on Japan for rubber anymore? In fact, until I brought it up, people had no idea rubber played such a part in WW2. 50 years from now people will forget oil played a part in the war against Iran (should it happen). It all depends on who wins, for they will write the history, unless of course Iran decides to nuke the world with China and Russia's help. Then there will be no one to write history.

It's honestly history repeating itself. We go to Iran to avoid their attacking Israel, because they get nukes and have repeatedly threatened Israel with extinction.... and diplomacy hasn't been working.....

 

It really wouldn't cost government much to get companies to develop alternative energy programs. You do what FDR did.... you get companies to sign do-op plans and offer the patents to those that develop workable, mass marketable, alternative energy programs.

I am in no way a war monger, HOWEVER, I am just trying to bring to people's attention HOW it seems we are repeating the past, in many ways. If we see it perhaps we can stop it before we are too far into it, IF it isn't already too late.

 

If I'm not mistaken, I believe Obama is attempting just that, offering up public land and funding for use by alternative energy start ups. Solyndra was a bust but there are others making some headway. And it's not as if the major energy giants aren't working on their own strategies.

Not sure where you're really going with this, pan or how war fits into it. The search for renewable energy sources is in full swing, not only here, but in every industrialized country on the planet. It's simply a necessity that everyone agrees is long overdue. Even without the threat of global warming, oil is a finite resource and becoming too difficult a commodity to stabilize - natural gas is promising but is proving to be a geological nightmare (fracking). Coal is....well, it's coal. We don't have time to wait for the nuclear power plants we should have started building a dozen years ago.

It doesn't matter why gasoline prices are rising in the short term because the end of the gas powered combustion engine is very close at hand.

I'm going to have to go back and re-read your posts to get a better understanding of what you're getting at.

 

True he is, but the GOP are harping on Solyndra and they should. When people walk away with HUGE severance packages paid for with taxpayer funds, it should be questioned. That would have been equivalent to back in the day Firestone taking a huge amount of funds and saying ... "whoops, we're bankrupt" and closing down while the board walks away with millions.

But we should not let that stop the programs Obama is trying to develop and put into place.

Just was comparing the past with the present. How FDR put into place a synthetic rubber program fearing war with Japan and losing 90% of our supply. Rubber costs were skyrocketing, (oil is skyrocketing) and affecting his economic recovery plans (as oil prices threaten Obama's).

The GOP would have you believe Obama's plans and alternative energy programs are unheard of and no one should buy into ythem as they are very costly. However, FDR did similar things in 1939 before the start of WW2 due to rising Rubber prices. IT'S NOT NEW. The synthetic rubber program did not truly become a major priority until December 7th ,1941. Had the GOP not tried to sell the "expensive program that was not needed and we shouldn't fund", chances are synthetic rubber would have been around sooner, because the programs would have been funded better. much like alternative fuels. W wanted (I believe) the Hydrogen Cell (which was his hand picked companies that would benefit), and yet the GOP are yipping at Obama for the same things that they yipped at FDR for and history proves FDR was smart to stand by those programs and spending, the GOP had they won in 1940 probably would have gutted the programs. Then when war came we would have been almost working at square one, whereas, because the programs were able to continue, we were further advanced in synthetic rubber than even our allies knew.

Same issue today, should we go to war with Iran and prices get out of control, Obama's programs that the GOP would gut should they win, would and could set us that much further behind and truly hurt our chances of winning, due to the sheer economics at hand.

IF we go to war with Iran and oil skyrockets, what is the difference between rubber and oil?

It may sound stupid but it makes perfect sense if you can follow the reasoning. History class in high school taught us about the rubber and the part it played in WW2 (of course being so close to Akron probably didn't hurt either). There's a definite distinct pattern that is historically similar between the present and the pre-existing WW2 era America.

IF we can recognize those patterns perhaps we can avoid war and get off oil without war. However, chances are with how the USA works we don't do much until awakened such as WAR. Iran's saber rattling with a nuke program and stating Israel and the US must be destroyed and wiped from the planet.... does not bode well.

Iran wanting to control the Persian Gulf and the Strait of Hormuz where massive amounts of our and the world's oil flow through creates a similar problem to Japan's invasions of the South Pacific with control of the world's rubber as part of their reasoning. Rubber was THAT important at the time, just as oil is to us now.

I think the correlation of the 2 is quite obvious as is the economic situation and to some degree the weather patterns. The fact that Iran, much as Germany did, is thumbing it's nose at the world by building weapons that the world is saying, "please do not build." Iran is a Totalitarian state that is possibly economically among the strongest in the world presently.

In closing, to say we are in NO way repeating the past would be foolish, I would argue, that I have stated the very close similarities and need to continue an alternative fuel program. One which like the rubber program is being scoffed at by the GOP, for very similar reasons. Cost, necessity and in their minds and attitudes wrong for political reasons.

 

Made some very good points. Even the smartest of people may see it coming but, others may not.

All the time, I always carry my towel also. I've decided to change my name to Marvin the manic depressive robot... not that any one would care.