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If you needed to be reminded how cold government can be

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by flat5, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. flat5

    flat5 Vertical

    Amsterdam, NL

    Witness Feels Betrayed as U.S. Plans to Divide Family

    Mr. Demiraj had information: He had worked with the mobster, Bill Bedini, in a construction business and had sent money abroad for him. The prosecutor had leverage: Mr. Demiraj, an Albanian citizen, was in the United States illegally.

    The two sides made a deal, Mr. Demiraj said. In exchange for his testimony, he and his family would be kept safe.
    “Instead of rewarding Mr. Demiraj for risking his life to protect us from a ruthless gangster, the government delivers his family right into the gangster’s clutches,” said E. Joshua Rosenkranz, a lawyer with Orrick, Herrington and Sutcliffe, which represents the family. “It’s immoral and illegal. But it’s also reckless. If that is how we treat our friends, pretty soon we won’t have any friends left to protect us.”

    After the US gov. got what they wanted they backed out of the deal. Why?
  2. Bodkin van Horn

    Bodkin van Horn One of the Four Horsewomyn of the Fempocalypse

    The US gov didn't get what they wanted, because they let the perp flee back to Albania. Pretty shitty, but not surprising. Perhaps the judges would have loved to have ruled differently, but felt bound by the law. I bet the government's lawyers could have decided not to pursue action, but then again, since when has Obama's DOJ ever showed concern for acting in a compassionate, responsible manner with respect to the rights of individuals?

    Where's the tea party in this? Shouldn't they be shrieking about government tyranny? Oh wait, these folks are immigrants and the tea party only really cares about taxes. Nevermind.
  3. Duane formerly DKSuddeth

    perfectly good rant ruined by misguided and misinformed opinion.
  4. Bodkin van Horn

    Bodkin van Horn One of the Four Horsewomyn of the Fempocalypse

    Maybe if there was a risk of gay marriage occuring here we could expect the tea party caucus to do something. Or maybe if his wife was going to be deprived of the right to to buy mostly obsolete lightbulbs?
  5. samcol

    samcol Getting Tilted


    the tea party hate is just getting ridiculous
  6. Bodkin van Horn

    Bodkin van Horn One of the Four Horsewomyn of the Fempocalypse

    I'd say it's more contempt than hate, but I digress. /threadjack
  7. EyeSeePeeDude

    EyeSeePeeDude Getting Tilted

    Nellis AFB
    /agree - taking the thread off from where it was meant to be...
  8. ManPaste

    ManPaste New Member

    When you read things like this, always remember that certain people have connections.
  9. EventHorizon

    EventHorizon assuredly the cause of the angry Economy..

    i tend to think of all the criminals that have been put away and the families successfully relocated and hidden successfully. one fuckup is not cause to say that the DOJ couldn't care less about all of the people it serves. institutions are made by people, people are fallible, sometimes the institution fails but for some extraordinary reason, its only the failures that are highlighted while the successes go by unnoticed as if they aren't given but rather deserved.
  10. flat5

    flat5 Vertical

    Amsterdam, NL
    Bodkin, the gov got what they wanted from Mr. Demiraj. That was my point. They should have honored the deal.
    I don't see this as a Dem vs Repub issue. It seems to be how can we fuck over (illegal) immigrants.
    There is a choice in prosecuting. compassion or coldness
  11. Bodkin van Horn

    Bodkin van Horn One of the Four Horsewomyn of the Fempocalypse

    I agree with you. I wasn't discounting their coldness.

    And to be honest, I'm pretty sure that more immigrants have been deported under Obama than under Bush II.
  12. Duane formerly DKSuddeth

    maybe that has something to do with the way our government was created. We didn't create a red headed stepchild that looks to be praised at every good thing it does. It's mandated to do the right thing. Yet failure, on the other hand, should properly be highlighted so that it can be fixed and never happen again, yet people nowadays mindlessly drone on about how people are fallible and that governments should not be held liable for the failings of its workers. rubbish.
  13. Bodkin van Horn

    Bodkin van Horn One of the Four Horsewomyn of the Fempocalypse

    To be fair, this type of thing isn't just a governmental problem. Any bureaucratic system (or really any formalized, structured way of dealing with reality), be it public or private, will eventually fail when it is inevitably subjected to circumstances it wasn't created to handle. Then, typically, in an effort to make sure the system doesn't fail in that same way again, its complexity is increased to account for the one particular scenario which caused the failure. Following this fix, everything is fine until another failure occurs and the process repeats and eventually we have byzantine, inflexible bureaucracies which are really good at avoiding technical failure but pretty poor when it comes to achieving their original goals in acceptable ways.

    Certainly, bad actors should be punished. However, from a "making sure bad things don't ever happen again" standpoint, it doesn't necessarily matter if we hold people liable. These types of problems are products of the system, or rather, they are the direct result of the limitations inherent in organized activity. In fact, it's perfectly possible here that everyone involved was just doing their job as required. Shit happens. Horrible shit happens. A better system wouldn't aim for perfection, it would aim high and then implement external means of ensuring that outcomes were acceptable. Checks and balances. This type of solution would also have its flaws (see any state or national government), but it could possibly work better than simply punishing people and then implementing more stringent controls.
  14. flat5

    flat5 Vertical

    Amsterdam, NL
    Fire bad - tree pretty

    Governments (prosecutors, law officers) try very hard not to admit mistakes...at anyone's personal cost.
    This case really stinks.
  15. EventHorizon

    EventHorizon assuredly the cause of the angry Economy..

    so let me get this right. a guy who came into the country illegally did illegal things with people who are known for doing illegal things. government offers him to be a legal citizen if he cooperates, which he does, but when the case goes nowhere, the bad man that he worked for did bad things to him and his family.

    who pointed a gun at this guy's head and said "you will work construction for me"? who made this guy come to the US without going through the proper channels? nobody but him. had he arrived in the US and become naturalized etc, the prosecutors wouldn't have the leverage to force him to testify which would've kept him and his family out of harms way.

    if anything this speaks to why people should come to the United States legally so that they don't get tied down in messes like these more than it speaks to governments not helping out families in need