Is Marriage Becoming Government Sponsored Dating?

yeah i said it! what?!

it seems with the crazy number of divorces going on, that people are having as many marriage relationshits as they are premarital lovers. whats up with that? i think the solution is to make the age of consent higher or to fine people for getting divorced too soon. way back when, i'm talking like when AC/DC was still cool, people weren't getting divorces like pam anderson gets boob jobs. they had pre marital relationships and the words "until death do us part" meant "if you wanna be free, one of you has got to die." maybe its the fact that people are losing a grip of the idea of commitment and what it takes and what it gives to be with one person exclusively. what does TFP think? feel free to rant, rave, flip off, and fling poo at me because of my lack of experience being married

 

No. In the past, divorce was much rarer partially because divorce was legally granted only with fault (i.e. adultery, infertility, abandonment). The huge divorce boom from the 60s-to-80s was fueled by the no-fault divorce movement. Prior to no fault divorce, couples had to connive together in order to give the court some legal basis to grant a divorce. Otherwise, one couldn't leave a spouse simply because they were unhappy. With no fault divorce, one spouse can unilaterally terminate the marriage simply by petitioning the court. Courts will usually assign a couple month waiting period before rehearing the case and deciding whether or not to grant the divorce.

In other words, no fault divorce made divorce much, much easier.

I think no fault divorce is pretty crappy--it makes marriage even less enforceable than a contract. But it reflects our American commitment to the pursuit of happiness above all else.

 

Why is divorce so expensive? Because it's worth it.
Yes, it's an old joke; but valid nonetheless.

Nobody benefits by keeping two people legally connected when they don't want to be married. Make it harder to get married, perhaps, leave divorce alone.

 

But AC/DC is cool today. And my divorce cost $400 and was paid for by a 7-11 money order. I'm so confused by these zingers.

Turns out "the government" has incredibly little to do with marriage aside from the legal document (license). The wedding and divorce industry combined with the "everybody should be happy, nobody should work to achieve it" mentality fostered by materialism (people as things), vanity (people as meat), the media (we're _whatever_, you're not) and our instant gratification ADHD culture (grass is greener) in the West are what should be explored in any conversation about the "sham that is marriage." Instead of blaming The Man, maybe we should blame ourselves for being selfish, impulsive and impatient. I'm all for marriage (traditional family stability) and divorce (to seek happiness) but like everything else sold on TeeVee, the reality of the product isn't how it's shown in the advertisement. I reckon if you ask anybody here that has been married for 20 years: it's a lot work.

/was married for a long weekend, is divorced, has absolutely no idea what it is like to spend more than a year with the same woman

 

i'm not trying to blame "the man" for anything, i'm blaming people's shitty ideas of commitment, but some people, especially in the military, marry for the benefits instead of out of love. i think its an extra 400$ a month if you're enlisted. also aren't there tax breaks if you get married? it seems like people are being incentivized to be married rather than coming up with the idea on their own that they want to be with one other person for the rest of their lives.

 

Everything, including our spouses, have become disposable. When we don't like something, or we feel we've gotten our use out of it, we throw it away and buy a new one. Plus, we've gotten addicted to the shopping experience, the hunt for something new. We've made it easier too, it used to be difficult once you were out of school to meet people. Now, there is internet dating and relationship websites. Heck, there is now even internet cheat sites to meet someone to cheat on your spouse with. I'm not saying we need to go backward to solve the issue, but, before people get married they need to really think about whether or not they want to STAY with this person and not just room with them. It's hardest on kids, and I hate to see that.

 

I'm married. I've been divorced before. You know what? The first time there were signs we weren't very compatible, but I was caught up in getting married that I missed them all. Second time around - coming up on 12 years, 2 kids. It is hard work, but we are a much better match. I'm not a serial divorcer - my life would be hell if I was still married to my first wife. Please don't wish that on anyone.

 

And the problem with that is...?

I'd call things like dating sites progress in the "finding someone you want to marry" category. It's a tool, nothing more. Some use 'em to find people, some use it to flirt, some use it for hot-hot adultery action. That and if I was stuck with what I could find in town at the grocery store, I'd be hurting.

 

i think the problem is that people who dont use them don't want others' (or even their own) love lives broken down into 1s and 0s. i'm not pooping on the websites, i mean look at how many happy and lasting marriages have resulted from telecommunicated affection. its just a little depressing knowing that by checking the right box or by using the right combination of 3000 characters or less, some fancy computer magic will pair you up with your dream gal

 

Well, sure, and we've still got retards out there that believe in creationism. Anyway, isn't that basically what happens when you meet someone in the flesh? Ya know, checking off boxes mentally and hoping you get their attention in 3000 words or less on a first date? Meh. I fail to see how anybody can be self-righteous about "I met them at ___" over "I met them online." This isn't 1995; meeting people online is completely normal. Even on TFP.

Useful dating sites don't work like that anyway. Sites like OkCupid and PlentyOfFish have you answer a ton of lifestyle, philosophy and partner preference questions so you can be shown a list of people that meet your supposed criteria. It's up to you to initiate contact. The Machine (TM) doesn't do shit except sort people. I've been on dates with a few of my "Top 10" in the local area and it's been proven that you shouldn't lie to the machine.

If marriage is basically eroding away to being a celebrate-then-crash phase of dating, it's because of us... not the fat white guys in Washington.

 

Agreed. It's not the fat white guys in Washington. It's the fat white guys in California who started no-fault divorce. I hate California. :lol:

 

I don't have a problem with it at all.... in fact I think it's good that there is that alternative. I was making the point that it is much easier to meet people to "trade up" than it used to be.

 

First, I don't see how raising the age of consent would impact marriage and divorce rates at all.
Second, I don't see why having a higher divorce rate is a negative thing. At least not any worse than, say, cohabitating and then separating.
Government sure should stop subsidizing marriage though (or at least extend the rights to those subsidies to every couple, including same sex).

 

I'd prefer to see government get out of the marriage business. Create a civil partnership that includes all of the legal benefits and leave the marriage part to churches and such.

 

Not much worse for society at large, but for the families and communities directly involved it's much worse. You've made connections through your spouse, those connections become relationships that have to be weighed and sorted out.
I personally think it's rather selfish to treat what is supposed to be a lifelong commitment as friviously as we've come to do.
--- merged: Aug 25, 2011 5:36 PM ---

Stan is a genius, I've been thinking the same thing ever since I heard about gay marriage.
But then, pragmatically, there would still be a contract, government would still be involved

 

Yep... definitely a good idea.

 

It's not the money, it's the stability of it. When you move every two to three years, it can be hard to build a long-term relationship. Not to mention, if you're single, you live in barracks, which is basically a shitty dorm room with a randomly assigned roommate you probably hate. But if you get married, now you get an allowance to get nicer housing, and they pay for your spouse to move with you wherever you go. Long distance relationships are hard, so when it's time to go, usually it's either get married, or leave your partner behind.

I think that depends on how you separate. If you decide to amicably separate because it's not working out anymore, than you can still retain pleasant, if slightly changed, relationships that you've built along the way.

Children are a different matter. I've been divorced once, after 6 years, and I'm very thankful that we didn't have children.

 

How is that worse than the end of any long term relationship? Or, more pertinently, how is that worse than the alternative, which is being stuck in a shitty marriage? Divorce is bad when compared to being happily married, but those are hardly the alternatives. Generally the options are staying on a shitty marriage or divorcing, and in that case divorce is certainly the better outcome.

And I say this as someone coming from Latin America, where divorce wasn't available in many countries until recently.

I do think that the government shouldn't subsidize marriages (or at least extend the benefits to everyone), but that is a different matter.

 

dippin my comparison was betweeen a marriage breaking up and an umrarried couple (living together) breaking up. I still think there is a huge difference. Yes there are differing levels of cohabitating and some are more commited than some marriages, I contend though, that most are not.

In marriage you stand before God, family and community and declare one another a lifelong commitment. That declaration immediatley creates relationships, structures interaction with people who were virtual strangers who are now family, yadda yadda yadda

with cohabitation I pay the mortgage and the car note, you pay the utilities and buy groceries, and we keep it that way until we tire of it

"we're getting a divorce" is a bit different than "he/she took her stuff and moved out"

I'm not for or against divorce. being stuck with a legal connection you don't want can be worse than staying in a bad marriage. I'd just rather see us take the insitution (marriage) more seriously