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No Children

Discussion in 'Tilted Life and Sexuality' started by Mysugarcane, Aug 27, 2012.

  1. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    Yeah. In the US, teachers are mostly seen as daycare providers. Nobody wants to give them a raise because they're "off in the summer" (even though they're paid as 10-month employees).

    My woman has three degrees, is nationally board certified, has been teaching for well over a decade and still barely makes what I made as a GI Joe ten years ago.

    People want to have all these kids but they can't/won't/don't want to raise them. So they send them off school to be watched/educated by qualified strangers.

    But god forbid the person that supervises and educates your child from 7 to 3 every day for a fifteen years make a comparable wage. That's unacceptable.

    ...

    Seems like it is far more lucrative to be a child care provider than a teacher.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    Actually, no. My wife has worked in childcare and is currently a teacher. Small money in both.

    ------------------------------------------------

    I see a viscous cycle, generally speaking:

    Folks with money think that public schools suck.
    They send their kids to private schools.
    They fight against tax increases to improve public schools and increase teachers salaries.
    They fight for tax breaks for what they spend on private education.
    The subsequent lack of funding hurts public schools.
    Folks with money think that public schools suck.

    We don't have kids. We don't whine about paying school taxes.
     
  3. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    There were a couple of years where Jadzia actually was paid less each year.
    They froze teachers salaries and the Chris Christie decided they weren't paying enough for their insurance and pension so he upped the percentage they had to pay.
    So all the teachers actually made less then they had the year before.
    This is while more work is getting piled on.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Stan

    Stan Resident Dumbass

    Location:
    Colorado
    Just pointing out that the current exchange rate is $.76 . Canadian teacher salaries suck about the same as US ones.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX

    That sucks. I use the present tense because it's still happening.


    My wife works at a private religious school.
    Her salary after five years of being an official/actual employee (she first spent several years working there through a sub-contractor) is roughly 75% of the first-year salary offered by most local public school districts.
    She pays more for her health insurance.
    Her summers vacations have steadily been getting shorter (currently about two months).
    Her employment is a yearly contract. Exemplary performance during one year is no guarantee of being offered a contract the next year; many years of exemplary performance is no guarantee of a contract for the next year. There is no appeal process. A lawsuit, or the threat of one, is the only recourse.*


    * One teacher my wife knew very well was fired for refusing to take an extra class (she had the easiest schedule and cushiest teaching position at the school, she used to brag about it). She threatened a lawsuit, and received two years salary "severance." I mention this because it's seems extremely unfair to the dedicated teachers.
     
  6. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    Isn't Texas an "At Will" state?

    If so, and if the contract was expired, I don't see how a lawsuit for being let go would be viable. Unless it was for a clear case of racial, sexual, religious discrimination or the like?
     
  7. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX

    I don't know exactly how "At Will" works in Texas. I have known several people who used the threat of a lawsuit as leverage against former employers. I've worked at companies where once certain people reached a certain salary level, they were "let go" and replaced with younger people at a lower salary (that could qualify as age discrimination, I suppose). Perhaps some of other members here who have to be up-to-date on employment laws will post an explanation.
     
  8. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    Pay and Policies - General

    I read that as saying that, when not under otherwise contracted terms, either party (employer or employee) can say "I'm ending this" and there is nothing the other party can do about it. The only exceptions would be discrimination, or retaliation, both of which would have to be fully proved.


    I think sometimes people talk tough after the fact ("they knew I would've sued em!"), or sometimes employers will throw a few grand at someone instead of bothering paying lawyers. Or employers will be really dumb and instead of saying "We no longer need you." and leaving it at that, they say "because you did *insert unsubstantiated/undocumented claim*". That's just anecdotal though. And I'm not by any means a legal expert.
     
  9. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    What kind of college degrees and certifications do you have to get to be a childcare provider? I feel like the 3 degrees my woman has (as well as the student loans) makes being a childcare provider more lucrative simply by time+cost/benefit.
     
  10. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    I think that Street Pattern used to post comments re employment laws.

    My understanding is "there is nothing the other party can do about it" isn't as simple as it sounds. For example:

    At one job a woman (Sue) was hired because she had many contacts in the business, which the company owner anticipated using. But the position for which Sue was hired was not in sales or client relations, which was a blunder by the company owner. She was eventually fired with no explanation. The real reason was the owner wasn't able to win new clients using her contacts. By far the biggest problem was the company had a really bad reputation and was on thin ice financially*, namely massive borrowing for several expansions that didn't work out, and him not anticipating, and responding properly to, growing pains. Sue took the company to court and won the lawsuit by proving the real reason for her being hired and then fired.

    * One of the sales associates shared that info with just about everybody in the business when she saw the inevitable implosion coming. I don't know if the company sued her.
     
  11. Japchae

    Japchae Very Tilted

    No job security in child care.

    I've worked in child care. I've worked as a therapist in the schools. I still don't want kids. Ever.
    I watched more than 80 kids die, worked with 280 families or more in healthcare. I can't even count how many others in mental health. Probably at least 1k families in that area alone.
    Best. Birth. Control. Ever.
     
  12. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    What, people are going to stop having kids?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    Therein lies part of the rub, and brings up a much better comparison if you want to talk about salary for a specific job, and how worth it it is.

    The median wage, per person, in the US is $26,695. The median household income is $50,500. Two-thirds of working people in the US make less than $41,212. All of that is from the last US census (in 2011 dollars).

    Average teacher salary (in 2011, at 2012 dollars, as close as I could get it to the Census numbers) is at $56,340 (according to the National Center for Educational Statistics Estimated average annual salary of teachers in public elementary and secondary schools, by state: Selected years, 1969-70 through 2012-13 ) . So the average teacher makes over 2.1x the median wage, and by his/herself, over 10% more than the median household.

    The questions start coming up when you ask how much education the average teacher needed to get that job, versus the general level of education of the population. How much does that education cost? What are the benefit differences (retirement, health care, time off, etc.) between the median job and the teacher?

    But I think we've got a bit off track. Maybe even worth it's own thread. I was thinking this thread was about how people without kids and people with kids just can't seem to get each other, and each side seizing the moral high ground..... :p
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX

    Any answer I give about licensing to start a daycare facility would be incomplete and probably incorrect. As far as the employees go, you can hire anyone you please (within reason, of course). Two of the general requirements that I know of are some employees need to be certified for First Aid, and Food Safety.
     
  15. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Salaries aren't directly susceptible to the dictates of daily exchange rates (unless you're doing cross-border shopping or something). You'd have to compare using a cost of living index, like this one:

    Northern America: Cost of Living Index by City 2015 Mid Year

    As you can see many Canadian cities rank lower than American cities.
     
  16. omega

    omega Very Tilted

    My old supervisor's wife runs a daycare out of their home in lorton, Virginia. The nice area, not right next to the prison. She watched a dozen infants to toddlers with her sister assisting. The entire basement was set up, including its own side entrance. I believe she charged 300 a week, and she was making about 90k a year. Had to pay her sister, but she also deducted all food, training,supplies, a major chunk of the house,etc. This was about 10 years ago. Btw, they had seven children together.
     
  17. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    When I hear what some of my co-workers pay for child care I am surprised there aren't more families that choose to have one parent stay at home, at least until the kids are in school. Especially when there are 2-3 kids in day care at once. It's like an extra mortgage payment.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. amonkie

    amonkie Very Tilted

    Location:
    Windy City
    That 4-5 years out of the workforce is incredibly hard to make up for, especially if you are in a corporate position where being "present" is critical to being relevant and having a current skillset for your career interests. I've seen Stay at home parents re-enter the workforce with varying success.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  19. I would entertain the idea of staying at home. However there's more than just salary that comes along with it. I work for insurance. My employer has way better insurance than DaddySquirrel's for both me and our LittleSquirrel.

    The only true sad thing I think about when people say they don't want children is that, aside from @borla and some others, they are usually very intelligent. The idiots are procreating and the people with common sense are not. Society continues to get dumber and dumber.

    I did my duty for the world and am spreading my genes to combat the morons.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. snowy

    snowy so kawaii Staff Member

    One of the reasons I moved out of teaching preschool and into teaching secondary is due to pay. I now work for one of the best-paying districts in the state. I make just shy of three times what I made as a preschool teacher, plus good benefits and retirement.