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Politics Obama - Actually doing a good job?

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by rogue49, Mar 10, 2012.

  1. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    The American federal "government" isn't even really that "big" compared to other developed nations, so "shrinking" it will only be a means towards an end that may or may not be good for the country.

    The issue isn't the overall amount of government expenditures so much as it is how the expenditures are managed and whether worthwhile goals are being met. Should the U.S. government reduce spending and the deficit? Well, yes. Much of the recent spending was in response to economic turmoil. It's a given that the government should go in the direction of deficit reduction. That should be a given.

    The other issue is the debt load, a burden that makes even temporarily high spending dangerous. The U.S. is in a precarious position in this regard, which is what makes deficit reduction an important matter.

    No, the issue is more about whether the spending makes sense. What doesn't make sense is the call for the government to "get out of the way" wholesale, especially when it's the government who often ends up being a catalyst for things to happen in the first place.
     
  2. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    So you're saying that the Obama administration can do a variety of things...such as
    • Agree to the disputed pipeline. (which I don't disagree to)
    • Open up certain restricted areas. (which I'm not sure would make a difference)
    • Investigate if there something inappropriate driving speculation up to unreasonable prices
    • Investigate collusion between the oil companies ...etc
    I'd say that the government (no matter who's in charge has much control)
    As a matter of fact, I found this article with no Year stated, but it's obviously old considering the "record high" of $1.78 listed for gas prices
    and under a different adminstration, likely GOP (and it's a shame...the same damn players bitchin' at each other)
    As you can see...same damn arguments...different time...just the other side saying the same as another now.
    Same controversies, same conspiracy notions, etc...
    http://www.8newsnow.com/story/1770703/ftc-says-no-collusion-among-oil-companies

    So the only thing the government can possibly do is, the "all of the above" approach that Obama is supposedly going for.
    If you can, do it...what little it can guide it.
    Also a matter of fact, despite gas prices...US exports of oil/gas are our 1st biggest export now, US consumption of foreign oil is down to a new low...etc.
    There's a gas boom happening in North Central US region, drilling has been approved on the East Coast Mid-Atlantic, etc...

    It goes back to the question, what should a President get true credit for?
    It has to be something...
    But what?
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
  3. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Maybe the U.S. should do something about it's horrendous track record with fuel economy? There hasn't been enough impetus to do this since gas prices are relatively low, even when they're "high."

    Very few new vehicles in the U.S. would meet European or Japanese fuel economy standards.

    I say, you Americans, stop your bitching: either enjoy your low gas prices or stop burning so much of it.

    The current national average gas price in the U.S. is $3.76 per gallon. In Canada, it's $4.85 per gallon—more than a 20% difference. It's a good thing we have better average fuel economy.

    In the U.K., the average is currently $8.18*. It's a good thing the U.K. fuel economy is leaps and bounds better than North American standards, eh?


    *That seems wrong. Anyone want to check that for me? It's 138.27p per litre. Is it really that much when converted to dollars and gallons? Wow...
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
    • Like Like x 1
  4. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Answer:
    nearly $10 a gallon, at a rough guess (about £5 GB)

    Note a UK Gallon is 4.54609 litres
    $10 is £6.22 (16/03/2011)
    Current price of Petrol (Gas) is £1.34 (and higher) per litre
    1 US gallon = 3.78541178 litres
    Therefore 1 gallon = £5.07 (£1.34 x 3.78 = 5.07)
    £5.07 = $8.14823
    4.54609188 litres per Imperial gallon £6.09 a gallon.
    $9.78525 which is pretty close to the $10 figure quoted.

    also...for a real-time...
    http://www.mytravelcost.com/petrol-prices/ (**convertion calc is at the top of the list)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Obama's rhetoric is what is unfortunate. When he was a candidate he did not know what he was talking about when oil peaked at $145 in 2008 and he does not know what he is talking about now. The implication that supply increased through domestic production would have almost no long-term impact is ridiculous. The suggestion that the US government can not impact prices in the short-term is equally ridiculous. The notion that oil company profits were/are excessive is ridiculous. In 2008 some speculators pegged oil to go to $250 - as some made those projections others (corporations) were making massive capital investments in new production and new production techniques. Corporations, as it turns-out have big financial interests in avoiding declining production - and profits were needed for these capital investments.
    --- merged: Mar 12, 2012 at 4:44 PM ---
    If speculators can account for a 20 to 30% premium or discount, assuming the real price of oil is $100, speculation could cause the price to be as high as $130 or as low as $70. What causes a speculator to risks on the long side or the short side? Many factors including: the anticipated strength or weakness of the US dollar. Currently most, including me, believe the dollar will weaken over time (inflationary)-driving future commodity prices up. Obama and his administration could address this issue directly and immediately change sentiment. So imagine if en masse speculators changed their view from a weakening US dollar to a strengthening US dollar. No speculator would want to be the last man standing, the price could swing $30 -$60 in a short period of time.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 19, 2012
  6. Fangirl

    Fangirl Very Tilted

    Location:
    Arizona
    I agree. But we (the Americans) have been talking about it through both sides of our mouth for 40 years!
    The Imperial gallon in Canada cost way more when adjusted for size decades ago (as it did in the U.K) than the U.S. gallon. Oh, how we (my family) complained on our frequent trips to Ontario.
    Even now, we are greeted with gasoline sticker shock when we cross the Ambassador bridge into Ontario.
    But a drastic difference that I saw as a child in Toronto that continues to this day is that you guys have a incredible public transportation system. We do not have that in the United States--not to any degree that will be the incentive we need to park our cars.
    What has really changed in the American mindset about the cost of gasoline since the last quarter of the 20th century?
    When it was $1.00 a U.S. gallon we bitched, cut back a bit then went on an SUV binge (as did Canada). Two dollars, three, now $5 US. Whilst Canada, the U.K. & Japan (eventually) got the message, the U.S. still feels that we shouldn't have to give up anything.

    EDIT/
    Obama is doing an OK job. But, his support of 'going Japanese' with bullet-trains is not going to address the incredible need for U.S. infrastructure changes needed so for example, I can get into the city of Chicago from 25 miles out in the suburbs without the vast inconvenience and without a car. While we're at it let's make it possible to get from here to there in the suburbs sans automobile! In my town the answer to that dilemma is to build another bike trail to nowhere. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
  7. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    If you do a quick fact check, you will find that out of the world's proven oil reserves, the U.S. ranks 13th. That doesn't sound bad on the surface, but deep below it you will find that U.S. reserves amount to a measly 1.7% of the top 10 combined. How much impact do you honestly think that will have on supply and on prices compared to the leverage that others have? The U.S. would need to discover twice as much oil currently known just to make it into the 10th spot.

    Out of the world's largest oil and gas companies, American companies are small fry compared to the top 10. ExxonMobil has about 1/3 the reserves as the 11th biggest company: the 11th biggest company has a tenth the reserves as the largest.

    Why do you think the U.S. has such desperate economic interests in the Middle East?

    The American impact on oil prices isn't very much beyond consumption and geopolitics.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
  8. fflowley

    fflowley Don't just do something, stand there!

    1. The spoken policy of this Administration, as well as the previous one, has been to publicly support a "strong dollar" while doing everything possible to weaken the currency.
    There's a good reason for that.
    There would be very serious, negative implications to a "strong dollar".

    What's wrong with paying $4 for gasoline?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 19, 2012
  9. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    The manufacturing sector loves the lack of a strong dollar at the moment.
     
  10. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Ironically, Rush did a segment on this Friday. The key according to Rush's findings is in how they define "proven oil reserves" and how that compares to other types of "oil reserves". I have no further comment or interest in sharing any further information on this because it will lead no where.

    I need to clarify in an early post when I refereed to suppliers, there is a difference between oil producing nations that rely on oil exports and corporations in the oil producing industry. When I referred to corporations, I was not specifically referring to oil producing companies based in the US.



    I think the world has interests in the ME because of oil - I think it is proportional to oil consumption. I think oil is generally a fungible commodity. There are some differences and I am not saying fungible in absolute terms - in case this qualification is needed.

    Oil is traded in dollars - the value of US dollars has an impact on relative market prices. This is just one example in addition to the above.
    --- merged: Mar 12, 2012 at 6:39 PM ---
    There would be some serious positive implications as well. Some have an interest in a weak US dollar some have an interest in a strong US dollar. Either way speculators will act in a manner reflecting the anticipated trend.

    Isn't the liberal logic that it disproportionately impacts the poor. But actually factoring in inflation $4 gas is not really expensive at all on a historic basis.
    --- merged: Mar 12, 2012 at 6:49 PM ---
    Large cap companies with international sales tend to benefit and medium/small cap companies tend to get hurt.
    Give a weakening US dollar, US based companies have less incentive to convert foreign profits to US dollars or bring those profits back to the US. Foreign based companies have the opposite incentive.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 19, 2012
  11. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Obama raised the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards in '09 or more correctly he took the cafe standards that Bush raised from 27 mpg to 35 mpg in 07 and moved the compliance date from 2020 (Bush date) to 2012, this year's models.

    He raised the cafe standards again last year, in agreement with the auto makers, to 54 mpg by 2025, doubling the 07 standards.
     
  12. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    All things considered, there is little Obama can be expected to do to influence gas prices over the short term. It's not that he can be expected to, say, go the route of Venezuela.

    That said, Obama should be expected to look at the future of energy production, efficiency, and conservation. This is something that requires a multifaceted approach. It should include securing both domestic and foreign sources of crude oil and gas, but it should also include strategies for renewable energy, conservation technology, and improved efficiency through energy distribution and the transportation industry.

    Gas prices are already relatively low. Spikes are going to happen with certain events, and Obama may be able to temporarily provide relief, but there will be little he can do with all the external pressures being what they are.

    He's not going going to control the currency China-style. He's not going to nationalize the energy industry Venezuela-style. He's not going to force rations upon consumption Cuba-style. However, if he does some of the things that the Canadian and German governments have done, it will include public and private sector cooperation to achieve common goals.

    Unfortunately, much of that would be labelled "socialism" or "big government" in the U.S. That's really too bad. I really do hope for the best in the U.S.
     
  13. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Fortunately BG, he has already stated that he has instructed his adminstration to go for an "All of the Above" approach, as you've described.

    And this is usual method, to take all ideas, and implement where possible, coax and guide where possible.
    Some will work immediately, some won't...some will take time, some may fail...or even come back later.

    No grandiose ideas...these he knows won't gain traction in this rancid political situation that is called Congress.
    And they never really did work anyway, for the most part. (in any administration)

    But there is a problem, obviously...so what to do?
    Especially if you have no direct or substantial control.

    Besides, I think he learned his lesson the hard way, when he had a dominate Dem controlled Congress,
    and the grandiose ideas backfired...
    I'm not judging the results yet, these have yet to be fully implemented...and long-term results to be observed too.
    But they didn't go down well...he got hurt badly in the rhetorical game.

    I wonder if he figured out to make everything go down in smaller executions...rather than big pieces of legislation?
    Something he wouldn't get caught in a big battle or push about.
    But things the Executive Office could actually control in policy.

    Sounds like a reasonable thing...kind of like feeding a baby.
    (a HUGE bawling squirming petulant baby that is the Federal government...or Congress)
     
  14. Derwood

    Derwood Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    The president has almost no power over gas prices. Fox News said as much in 2008 (in defense of Bush, of course)
     
  15. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    And experts are saying as much now...
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...-not-so-fast/2012/03/12/gIQA8fsO8R_story.html

    “This notion that a politician can wave a magic wand and impact the 90-million-barrel-a-day global oil market is preposterous”
    “We need a reasoned debate based on facts, but that’s not the climate we’re in, unfortunately.”

    So again, I say...what do we give Obama credit for?
    Is it what Fact Checking sites like Politifact with the "Obameter" show??

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/
    (BTW, I give this site credit for linking to other fact-checking sites on their homepage)

    More and more...it is getting easier & easier to extract the facts of what is actually happening...what has actually been done.
    But of course, there is "interpretation" of metrics and policy...that leads to bias, conflict of interest, etc...
    But still, there are so many media outlets, a person of some intelligence...and diligence can research their own...and compare if they are wise.

    The "machine" cannot control the message as it used to...of any side.
    Still it is easy to repeat a "catch-phrase" which is easily absorbed by those distracted by the chaos of life.
    Or be misled because we cannot be the subject matter experts of everything.
    Who has time to get into the details? (Isn't this one of the reasons why we have representatives?)

    I'm a media junkie. A news hound...constantly looking for different material.
    So I tend to be informed more so than your average citizen.
    Plus, I've been fortunate to have worked inside government in various depts and project...seen how the sausage is made.
    But I will admit, as with anyone, I'm sure I have my biases...a cheerleader of certain ideas...my own limitations.

    I'm curious as to what "history" will interpret what we've witnessed and absorbed while living in the scene.
    What side of the coin will they end up filtering information and stats through.
    Sometimes it takes years, no decades, to see what the actual results were.
    What seems good now, turns out to be bad...what seems insane now, turns out to be nothing...a blip.

    How do we judge Obama's quality now?
     
  16. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    So gas prices are being held against him...whether justified or not.

    But other things are looking up...
    • Retail Sales in U.S. Climbed in February by Most in Five Months
    • Americans Grow More Confident in Housing
    • Milk Price Slumps as Record Profit Spurs Herds
    • Fed Stress Tests 19 Large Banks Against Recession
    and Now...Obama in Poll Winning More Americans Than Not Asserting They’re Better Off
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...ns-than-not-asserting-they-re-better-off.html

    Are we this fickle???
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2012
  17. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    The average American isn't concerned about what's going to happen down the road, with expectations, hopes, and predictions. Many of them are concerned about what's happening right now. So when gas prices spike, they respond to that, rather than to what the increased prices may mean. I mean, increased gas prices are partly tied into economic expansion and increased demand. The average American doesn't care about that. They care about their pockets now, not down the road. So Obama will take flak for that.

    But there are other economic indicators that may hint at what's to come. Increased gas prices may lead many to think they're being kicked when they're down, but what if it is tied to economic expansion?

    Below are leading economic indicators. These are aspects of the economy that may hint at what's to come. When these things are bad, it could spell future downturns. When they're good, it could mean expansion. They're not the be-all and end-all, as many know economics isn't an exact science. But you may be interested to know what's going on "under the hood" and that it may not be as bad as some may think.

    1) Average weekly hours (manufacturing) — Not only have they recovered from 2008/2009 lows, but they're the highest they've been since the late '90s.

    2) Average weekly jobless claims for unemployment insurance — The number of people claiming UI benefits has dropped 16% compared to this time last year. The number of new claims has dropped 25% federally and 13% state-level compared to this time last year.

    3) Manufacturers' new orders for consumer goods/materials — Since December 2011, growth of new orders has been 3.4%. The growth between 2010 and 2011 was 12.1%

    4) Vendor performance (slower deliveries diffusion index) — The ISM/NAPM purchasing managers index points not only to recovery of 2008/2009 lows, but levels above 2007 values.

    5) Manufacturers' new orders for non-defense capital goods — Values have recovered from 2008/2009 lows to above 2006/2007 highs, values not seen since 2000.

    6) The Standard & Poor's 500 stock index — Year-to-date returns are over 9%. U.S. stocks recently reached their highest level since 2008.

    7) Money Supply (M2) — The money supply is expanding faster than inflation, making it easier for banks to lend money.

    8) Interest rate spread (10-year Treasury vs. Federal Funds target) — Banks are making their money on 10-year notes, despite record low rates. This is mainly because of the expected near-zero interest rates through 2014. It's predicted by some that they're doing this due to weak loan demand timed with the presidential cycle. So if Obama gets a second term, the timing may be right for things to improve.

    9) Index of consumer expectations — Gains seem to be tied directly to job growth numbers. Job growth has been slow but steady, so any increased gains in job growth will likely see more gains in consumer expectations. The consumer expectation numbers have been up and down since 2010, but they're better than they were in 2008/2009, that's for sure.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2012
  18. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Ok, here's a different perspective...
    Obama seems to get away with a ton of shit GW would have been thrown on the cross for.
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/73909.html

    It there something different in his approach that makes it easier to swallow?
    Is the media distracted?
    And please don't give me that old "Liberal Media Bias" bullshit.
    (you know as well as I do it's whatever gets their attention...if there's blood in the water...they are a bunch a friggin' Lemmings)

    Is this something that Obama should be credited or blamed for?

    Perhaps we are that fickle...this other article implies that we don't know our ass from our elbow,
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/73947.html

    So how to truly evaluate a sitting President?

    (BTW...I find it DAMN funny that the press is starting to ask the same questions I'm doing on here. Hey, maybe I have a different career...)
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2012
  19. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
  20. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom