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Politics Obama - Actually doing a good job?

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by rogue49, Mar 10, 2012.

  1. Snake Eater

    Snake Eater Vertical

    I think internationally, Obama has done a pretty decent job.

    Domestic issues are a whole different bag of worms though.

    I am very conservative, but I can give credit where credit is due:

    Going after Bin Laden in Pakistan was a very, very balsy move.

    Obama is doing right for the Military, for the most part.

    His apology for the Koran burnings were appropriate and reasoned... mistakes were made and we had no business disposing of religious documents (which we knew to be a huge hot-button) in a dump. His apology *may* have saved the lives of several US service members... completely worth it.

    He isn't giving carte blanche to Israel. We may still choose to support them, but if so it will be on our terms rather than allowing them to suck us into a major conflict we are not prepared to fight.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Why does he care about a label? He should simply present his plan. All business wants is some kind of predictability or stability. The announcement today that oil is being released from the strategic reserves is contradictory to what he has been saying. To me it indicates he has no plan, only empty rhetoric.
     
  3. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I was thinking in particular about the Republicans. You know how you go on about getting people onboard and shit; well, that is an issue. But when your opponents misconstrue something or purposely mislead the public about it, then he should probably care. He should care about a Congress that turns workable ideas into "un-American government takeovers."

    Saying about what?
     
  4. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    False labels don't last. Leaders, lead - and they overcome stuff like false labels.

    Not having any control over oil prices. Supply not being an issue. US having virtually no impact on global supply. But it begs the question why is he doing it. At best we will see a very short-term impact. Perhaps the move is simply political.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/15/us-markets-oil-idUSBRE82B04920120315
     
  5. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Problem is this...False Labels work to a certain extent...even against the best of Leaders.
    You can have a certain percentages of the population believing in those labels...they either re-enforce bias, or coax them over, or create doubt.

    And in politics...it is a numbers game. What percentage can you get to doubt your opponent...and Leaders are the opponents of someone.
    This is why they have commercials...Why negative campaigns are done... (ex. Romney or his PAC supporters love slamming before a vote)

    There's a certain idealism that say people can overcome reality.
    And while that Idealism can make people envision and work for greater height...it can also shadow or fade those same people into some denial of harm.

    People need to start paying attention, noting reality, not just judging according to some abstract, but the actual situation
    where the are, where they've been, where they may be, what they have, what they don't have...and the consequences of all of the above.

    Labeling your sport opponent is "smack talk", part of the fun of taking sides...but it is a game. (It really doesn't matter...except for the heart)
    But labeling your political opponent, well...that's a game too...but it has consequence and impact...it affects decisions.

    I'd rather know all the facts.
    All the background.
    All the context.
    I'll figure it all myself...I take on that burden, that responsibility.
    I'm a big boy...I don't need a Label to ID someone.

    Problem is...many, maybe most, don't want to take that effort.
    Labels make it easy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2012
  6. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    The Road We Traveled - Obama's short movie, narrated by Tom Hanks (and paid for by the Obama campaign)

    View: http://youtu.be/2POembdArVo


    Yep, I have to put this here.
    Sorry, it's what this thread is all about...so it's legit.

    This is obviously a campaign clip, but it is contextual...does have some background and perspective.
    I will say that it is well done. (and it does leave some things out...)

    It is NOT an endorsement from me. (you are all are grown-ups...make up your own minds)
    But it is something to discuss and argue over, this is the Politics space after all.
     
  7. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina

    I agree. However, and I often write about conviction, I expect a leader to do what he/she thinks is right without regard to the consequences. Given the nature of most decisions leaders have to make, I can disagree but follow a leader with real conviction. It often comes down to trust. Obama's exceptional talent is in delivering speeches filled with empty rhetoric, he is ineffective in terms of building consensus and getting things done when he has opposition. In addition I don't even think he is any good at working with his own party in Congress.
     
  8. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    And a check against the vid I posted, thanks to Politifact
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/mar/16/fact-checking-obama-campaign-film/



    And a speedbump as always...
    Economists offer a more pessimistic view of US Manufacturing.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/economists-offer-more-pessimistic-view-on-manufacturing-in-upcoming-report/2012/03/19/gIQAKSpZNS_story.html


    hmm...there's always something to spoil a day for a guy.
    But seriously, is this something that he deserve blame or credit for???

    Geez, being prez has got to be the most Masochistic job in the world...everyone is always after you...even your allies.
    No wonder they all take so many vacations.
     
  9. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Here we go again...a whole series of positives today
    • Most Americans Since 2004 See Economy Improving
    • Jobless Claims in U.S. Fall to Lowest Level in Four Years
    • Leading Economic Indicators Rise 0.7%
    And so on...with I'm sure someone else finding a series of negatives.
    And these change daily...

    So, can we resolve, no matter who's the Prez, that they only have so much literal control of things.
    And if you blame them for vague connections...then you should give them credit too.
    They are either in control or not.

    I can only blame or credit for direct policies that they enact as the Executive Office...affecting directly the Federal Government.
    Once the laws or policies go beyond those boundaries...then Chaos Theory comes into play.

    I can only judge according to actual effort.
    And if they are following up with fairly common sense things.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. fflowley

    fflowley Don't just do something, stand there!

    I thought Obama's remarks on Trayvon Martin today were very poignant:
    "I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how does something like this happen,” Obama said. “And that means we examine the laws, the context for what happened, as well as the specifics of the incident.
    “But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin: If I had a son he’d look like Trayvon. And I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are gonna take this with the seriousness it deserves and that we’re going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.”
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. pan6467

    pan6467 a triangle in a circular world.

    What I find amazing is that smart people will look to a leader for optimism and hope. President Obama offers that, the GOP are quite negative and I walked away from his SOU speech liking what he said, the GOP could only offer a basic "we will NOT work with this man." It was like Clinton all over again.

    Look, we are at a point in this country, we have a war going on, possibly another one, people are hurting financially... the president offers hope and says he'll work with the other side to do all they can to help. The GOP says "ain't happening".

    FUCK THE POLITICS AND JUST DO WHAT IS BEST FOR THE COUNTRY NOT FOR YOUR GOD DAMNED PARTISAN BULLSHIT.

    I'll give an even better example, yesterday Obama is at OSU talking about how we needed to develop alternative fuels, the fucking GOP chairman sends a letter talking about some bullshit how gas prices are rising and "where's Obama?" (basically implying Obama isn't doing anything. FUCK THE GOD DAMNED PARTISN BULLSHIT GOP AND FUCKING STEP UP AND DO SOMETHING TO HELP INSTEAD OF TRYING TO BE NEGATIVE AND WIN ON NEGATIVE BULLSHIT OR IS THAT ALL YOU CAN WIN ON??????

    Personally, if you go back 4 years ago, I hated Obama was not going to vote for him, didn't even want to give the man a chance if he did win. I was wrong. i am more than willing to give him another term. there is nothing to fear with him... what there is to fear, is the fucking GOP and their attitudes of not helping an ELECTED sitting president due to their political beliefs..... it's Clinton all over again. The people elected the man because whether you fucking like it or not whether your fucking polls show it or not, the people liked what he had to say and what he wanted to do.... the last thing they want is you acting like spoiled rotten children and taking your ball and going home. YOU are doing more damage to this country by doing that then by working with the man. Just as the people voted for Clinton and all the GOP could do was worry who he was getting blow jobs from.... what the FUCK did that have to do with him being president? I still am lost on that whole episode.

    Mention Laura Bush killed someone drinking and driving, W was nowhere to be found when he was in the guard during Nam and the GOP start saying you were hate mongering.

    Also, get the fuck over his birth certificate. WTF does it matter now? Are you going to erase the past 3 years and somehow go back in time with Jimmy and Professor Peabody and put McCain in office? yeah..... that's what I thought... in essence GOP I'm giving you the middle finger and saying "FUCK YOU, do the damn job you were put in office for, that is doing what is best for the COUNTRY, not your gad danged political party.
     
  12. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Newt would disagree:

    This is the same Newt who explained his theory of poverty in poor black communities this way:

    “Really poor children in really poor neighborhoods have no habits of working and have nobody around them who works,” Gingrich explained during a December appearance in Iowa. “So they literally have no habit of showing up on Monday. They have no habit of staying all day. They have no habit of ‘I do this and you give me cash,’ unless it’s illegal.”
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2012
  13. pan6467

    pan6467 a triangle in a circular world.

    I found it disgusting today when I heard on the news that while Santorum is at a shooting range getting ready to shoot in Louisianna (to get the NRA vote no doubt) some lady shouts "pretend it's Obama" and Santorum didn't do dick. Personally, that is reprehensible that is the sitting president of our country. If it had been me, I'd have told the lady, "look while I value freedom of speech, that is uncalled for lady. He IS the president and I will not stand here and listen to you talk that way." Then I'd have the Secret service escort her out.

    But I'm sure all had a great laugh and thought it funny. Pathetic GOP southern pathetic excuses of human beings (and that's me trying to be nice). this is as reprehensible when that felon mother fucker (G Gordon Liddy) once stated on his radio program he named his targets "Bill and Hilary", the mother fucker was a FELON, what the fuck was he doing with a gun in the first place? Is it GOP practice to name targets after sitting Democratic US presidents, they disagree with? IS THAT HOW THE RETARDS IN THE NRA (not all members of the NRA are retarded) AND FUCKIN GOP ACT AND BELIEVE????

    FUCKING IGNORANT PATHETIC VILLAGE IDIOTS IN THE NRA AND DOWN IN LOUISIANA. THAT WOMAN SHOULD BE FUCKIN SHOT.

    While Santorum Shoots Gun, Woman Shouts, 'Pretend It's Obama' : The Two-Way : NPR
     
  14. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    I think the kicker for me to vote for him was back when the financial crisis was emerging.

    All the politicians headed to DC to figure things out.
    McCain said he suspended his campaign until this was handled, and suggested Obama do the same.
    Obama said, Nope...not suspending it, we will take care of this too...we can do more than one thing at once, that's what leaders do.

    Then McCain, came down, tried to take control...had a hissy fit that he couldn't.
    Obama, came in...listen, conferred, took some cues from the Administration at the time (no battling), came to a consensus for a plan of action.

    Dammit. That did it.
    Pissed me off that GHW Bush hid at the end...I voted for him...wanted him to work.
    Pissed me off that Clinton wasted his potential momentum on a bit of pussy (I don't a shit about BJs) but it was a distraction.
    Pissed me off that before the war, GW Bush was vacationing up a storm...didn't want to involve himself, delegated

    The US Presidency is a fucking HARD job, everyone is after your ass.
    But you want to be the most powerful person on Earth? You better not just want it, you better WORK when you're IN it.
    We put you there, you work your ass off.

    I just saw this guy, coming in...and working his ass off.
    Not just one big project at a time...but everything...because EVERYTHING COUNTS.
    And he showed that he could work with the other side...and still act.

    And what pleased me, when I actually went into work for the Executive Office...they were working ALL the angles.
    Not just trying to push their agenda...but actually trying to get this shit together. Streamline it.

    And that's why I think I'll vote for him again...because he's WORKING for it.
    And everything that I'm hearing of Romney says, he delegates, he doesn't know his people, he doesn't connect, and he's casual about it.
    This is NOT casual business.
    The state of Massachusetts is not the same as running the most powerful nation on Earth and negotiating its influence.

    Besides, Obama is experienced now, so that whole argument is out the door.
    And I haven't been given a reason to switch drivers to another inexperienced one.

    You want to make me switch, give me someone who'll make that difference.
    And not tred on my rights. (so Santorum and Gingrich don't satisfy that criteria)

    I'm watching and waiting...
    I better see someone working it.
    Prove to me you deserve my vote.
    AND that you'll work your ass off in office.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2012
    • Like Like x 1
  15. pan6467

    pan6467 a triangle in a circular world.

    I will say for the first time since 1998 I will proudly vote a FULL democratic ticket. The GOP could have had me if they weren't fuckin crybaby brats who think the government is OWED them and elections are just show and proving a point. You want the people to prove a point, hopefully you lose your asses in November. NOTHING would make me happier than to see the Dems take it all, the House, the Senate and the Presidency.

    I am now in the Democrats fold 100%... for the first time since the party turned their back on Clinton for bullshit and they were too fucking scared to stand up to fucking Lizard ass who himself was a cheating mother fucker.
     
  16. fflowley

    fflowley Don't just do something, stand there!

    redux, the fact that Newt and Hannitty disagree with me makes me even more secure in my position.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. pan6467

    pan6467 a triangle in a circular world.

    You mean you don't agree with the Lizard ass ex speaker of the House, who turned that into a multi million dollar lobbying position but claims he didn't? GOOD FOR YOU, YOU HAVE SMARTS AND INTELLIGENCE.
     
  18. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Now, anyone that can say that I'm being "liberal" for voting for Obama, because he is "liberal"
    has got another thing coming...

    Because I've seen Obama and his adminstration adopt many policies that are not even close to being liberal.
    Or have done actions, which were suggested previously by conservatives.

    One recent example, the allowing of data retention on citizens up to 5 years... (previously just 180 days)
    New counterterrorism guidelines permit data on U.S. citizens to be held longer - The Washington Post

    Or continuing Bush policy on defense or terrorism prevention...or even expanding on it.

    Now, I'm not going to say that I'm for or against it here. (yet)
    One, because I'm not fully sure yet on my position, I see sides to both arguments...and see how it can be abused...I also know how it could help.
    Two, because it's up to you to discuss.

    I like to avoid labels, they are too easy.
    I like to gather all the info, watch the actions, watch the trends...then I can say what a person or group seems to be.

    I think what I objected to GW's administration versus Obama...was not really the policy, but how they played it.
    It's like driving really fast...are you doing it for a reason with intent & control, for a example like a cop...or are you doing it recklessly?
    How about the ability to pull someone over...is the officer using discretion...or profiling?
    Or even a strict interpretation of the law...like a stopsign...is the officer sitting in the dark at midnight in the middle of nowhere with no traffic, ticketing?
    Or stopping people who are not stopping near a heavily trafficked school...

    I'm big, strong guy...should I bully or intimidate? Just because I can? Should I lord over my size?

    I saw in GW's administration a certain overkill or presumption...that seemingly led to waste, abuse & promotion of the wrong idea.
    In Obama's (so far...) I'm more seeing a leverage and application, that the law is intended for...to stop crime, and not glorify the players.
    The previous seemed out of touch...the current seems to be paying attention. (IMHO)
    Only problem is, what happens when an idiotic or aggressive administration gets in??? (and one will, sooner or later)

    Now, don't get me wrong...in GW, I saw the full arc...I got pissed initially, because he kicked it back, ignored and delegated
    then I supported him during the start after the Twin Towers' fall...but he took his eye off the ball for a different agenda,
    then I was concerned because things weren't being played out well, a certain arrogance,
    finally in the end, he got it right, beat back Cheney and his cronies, when the crisis went down & the close of his term...but it was a bit too late.

    Obama...I see someone who did inherit a bag of shit
    and he played it as best as I think anyone could considering his presidential inexperience and starting a new administration.
    BTW...ANYONE would be inexperienced, except a person already in term. (duh, again it's a WHOLE different level than being a Senator or Governor)
    He was a dupe, thinking the GOP would play fair.
    And he probably got the politics wrong on getting certain items passed. (whether the policy's intent or details were correct or not)
    And he forgot to play the "announcement game" with the public...assuming that just because he was working, he didn't have to hold hands.
    But that's necessary in this world, you've not only got to execute...but you've got to get "buy in" from all levels. (Take it from a senior manager)

    But we survived, and some good shit headed our way.
    We are certainly doing better than before...and mostly better than the rest of the world. (Europe, Oi vey)
    The trends are generally more positive.
    But we still have so much more work to do...and keep the momentum on what we've done already.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2012
  19. Derwood

    Derwood Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Obama isn't liberal at all. In the 70's, he'd solidly fit into the Republican party
     
  20. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    What does this mean:

    President Obama Asks Medvedev for ‘Space’ on Missile Defense — ‘After My Election I Have More Flexibility’ - ABC News

    Shouldn't we expect some clarification from the WH?

    {added} Wait, I know...it did not really happen:

     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2012