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Politics Obamacare

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by pan6467, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Ace.....I dont minimize the first year procedural problems...from the sign ups to the latest.

    Similar things happened with Medicare, with Bush's Medicare D, etc. and they can be fixed just as easily because they are process issues not policy issues.

    The number of uninsured has dropped 4%, premiums are not skyrocketing as opponents predicted, new patient protections are in place for the first time that put consumers over insurance company profits, etc.

    But one change I would like to see was a suggestion by that radical socialist Ben Carson to transform all insurance companies into non-profits. :)
     
  2. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    The accountability issue is big. Talk to the insurance company - they blame the Obamacare folks. Talk to Obamacare folks, they blame the state medicare folks. Talk to the state medicare....they blame, etc, etc. Last year, I had an agent, he got paid a commission, if I had an administrative problem with the policy issuance, I could go to his office and tell him to get it fixed! Who do I go to now? And, actually with the Obamacare folks, you can't get the same person twice - one person says one thing one day and a different person says something totally different the next. Management 101, don't build complicated systems without accountability. It is a flaw in the law. There is no benefit for the added bureaucratic layer.

    There are easier and better ways to address the uninsured. Perhaps one way would have been to simply buy the uninsured a policy rather than disrupting the entire industry.

    We could debate the merits of the idea. Treat insurance companies like a utility company, some are collectives - non-profits. Even in the market today some insurance companies are set up as mutuals (owned by policyholders) basically the same as non-profits. USAA is a mutual (targeting military and former military people) and consistently ranked as one of the best insurance companies in the industry in terms of service. Insurance by its very nature is somewhat socialist. And I have never taken the position that socialism is inherently wrong - I simply prefer capitalism.
     
  3. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Well, the CBO just quietly dropped the figures that shows if the ACA will reduce the deficit.
    Why?
    Because there are so many changes and dynamics going on...they cannot appropriately and accurately judge the effects yet.
    They're going to have to wait until things settle down...and actually get finished being enacted and enforced.

    A bit of mud in the eye for Obama.
     
  4. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    This was predicted also. Who believed the original CBO assumptions??? Actually, who believed them other than DC.? I would bet Pelosi did not even read the report...but if you questioned her or the report - how dare a person do such a thing!
     
  5. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    ace....who believed that premiums would skyrocking other than the same folks who claimed the ACA has death panels. :)

    The CBO report also stated that the revenue from all other provisions (other than those related to Exchange subsidies and mandate payments) will still significantly limit the budgetary impact of the law.
     
  6. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    To be clear, I agree the use of the term - death panel - is provocative, however when limited resources have to be allocated life and death decisions have to be made. Call it whatever you want - I prefer to control my own medical decisions, I do not want government involved - the risks are too great. I further acknowledge that if government is not allocating limited medical resources, the resources are still limited and would still have to be allocated through some other means - in this regard I do not want insurance companies making the final decision (they can decide what they do with their money but if we enter a contract follow the terms of the contract), it should be my choice - even in regard to experimental treatments.

    Collection of revenue is based on assumptions - those assumptions are going to be wrong. The CBO projections are wrong 100% of the time because the assumptions never occur as predicted. At best the CBO gives an accurate broad estimate and an expected trend.
     
  7. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    So what does this say about the US and Healthcare???

    US continues its losing streak in health care quality comparison

    Last... Go USA! :rolleyes:

    IMHO...we've got some work to do...even the doctors are now getting screwed over.
    Frankly, I think the main culprits are mostly a significant number of hospitals and insurance companies.
    There are over-charging and kick-back scams happening EVERYWHERE. (no exaggeration)

    And where there's corruption...who do you think pays the price?? (financial and otherwise...)

    What do you think??
     
  8. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I think it's difficult to compete with friggin' socialists!

    But seriously: This highlights the fact that healthcare being public isn't awesome in and of itself. It highlights the fact that Canada has some fixing to do. It's been the case for a while now.

    Next, it highlights the worst of what's wrong with the U.S. system: You pay the most to get the least. (Among those compared.)

    Something is obviously broken.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    I look at more pragmatically.

    The US is not ready, politically, for a single payer system and the employer-based, private insurance system, as crazy as it is, is too entrenched.

    But the ACA corrects many of the deficiencies of the system. It establishes federal regulations of the private insurance industry with regard to rates, coverage levels, the end of exclusions and rescissions , rather than the existing patchwork of 50 state regulations, many of which were more friendly to insurance companies than to consumers. It encourages competition among insurance companies through the Insurace Exchanges (a Republican idea) in what was a relatively closed market in many states where the top 2-3 insurers controlled 75-80% of the market, it incentivizes preventive care at the consumer level and cost management at the provider (hospitals/doctors) level. etc.

    The next step will be large employers pushing their employees to the Insurance Exchanges (when it is allowed in a few years), with contributions similar to the employer share going to pay for a plan outside of the workplace, with employees having more options and employers getting out of that piece of the benefit business completely.

    And ultimately, that will morph into a quasi single payer system. I will probably be dead or at least on Medicare when that happens.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    And I'm hearing it's lowering regular costs too
    ...and costs through Medicare. (allowing more money in the pool, extending the current "deadline")

    Nice to see it from Politico...it's not conservative or liberal, it goes after everyone.
     
  11. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    The sky is not falling, the world is not ending, there is no death spiral!

    Dire Obamacare Prediction Falls Hilariously Flat
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    I want to know two things.
    - How is it going to be this year?
    - And if the GOP takes the Senate, will it go away?

    Personally, even though I see all the benefits.
    I'm not even going to try until a few years in.

    Then again, I take the same attitude about anything new. (even tech, and I'm in the tech industry)
    I'm a slow adapter...it needs to be proven and established.
     
  13. Derwood

    Derwood Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    It won't go away, because any law Congress passes to repeal it would be auto-vetoed by Obama
     
  14. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Yes, but it depends on how much the GOP has of the House & Senate...because they can override it...if they have enough.
    Not likely, but always a chance.
     
  15. loquitur

    loquitur Getting Tilted

    I can't think of any scenario under which there would be a 2/3 majority of both houses to override a veto by Obama. Whether that's a good thing or not is a different question, but I don't think it will happen.
     
  16. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    What do you do when you are the Republican Tea Party governor of Pennsylvania and trailing in the polls by 20+ points?

    Submit a plan to expand Medicaid (with ACA approved private option) that you resisted for three years!


    1/2 million newly eligible next year....not bad!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Derwood

    Derwood Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    sounds like a move he's had in his back pocket for some time. if he were leading, he'd keep opposing
     
  18. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Marco Rubio's alternative plan to expanding Medicaid in Florida....30 people sign up.

     
  19. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    So, what is the latest from a person actually experiencing Obamacare.

    For 6 years I had an individual North Carolina Blue Cross plan. For 6 years I went to the same doctor, same hospital, same facilities for tests, etc. Now under Obamacare, I still have an individual North Carolina Blue Cross plan and one would assume everything would stay the same. How wrong that would be if a person thought that! And of course no one says anything during the sign-up process. So, I find out, the hard way, that my Doctor does not take the Blue Cross plan through Obamacare. After weeks of arguing and going back and forth, I find out that previously my Blue Cross id card said Blue Cross Options, which it still does say for those who don't go through Obamacare. My Obama Blue Cross card says Blue Cross Value. There is a totally different network of providers. Thanks, Obamacare!
     
  20. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North


    Did your doctor say why they don't accept the new Blue Cross?
    Just because it's a different network doest mean they can't be in the network.
    Sometimes that's by choice.