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Politics On gender politics

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by Shadowex3, Nov 3, 2013.

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  1. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North


    And does that mean male feminists are self hating?
     
  2. Shadowex3

    Shadowex3 Very Tilted

    That's so far out there from anything I've said that I'm tempted to report it as barefaced shitposting. I mean i'm used to some pretty mendacious bad faith posting in this thread but... damn.
     
  3. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    You did say that some feminists hate men and then criticized the idea that feminism isn't a monolith. I was just asking for clarification.
     
  4. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek

    Touchy. For fuck's sake.

    Sometimes a question is just a question. Must *everything* with you be a perceived attack? Why don't you start from the position that people here are not out to get you.
     
  5. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Seriously though: Some feminists are assholes.
     
  6. Shadowex3

    Shadowex3 Very Tilted

    Yes Charlatan it's perfectly reasonable for someone to come out of left field with a completely and totally non-sequitur post asking if I'm saying that all feminists must hate men. That's not remotely a loaded question at all, especially from someone with a long history of those kinds of bad faith posts. I should totally ignore the fact that merely firing off that question is in and of itself straw manning my position as something inflammatory...

    That's not what I said at all. Go read my post again and stop misrepresenting it.
     
  7. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Misunderstanding, rather. You aren't saying some feminists hate men. You didn't criticize the idea that feminism isn't a monolith. Okay.

    The problem of straw feminists is that people take the extreme examples and use them to stand in for or represent the whole. I was wondering if you were doing that.

    I guess not. I suppose I'm unsure what you mean. Forgive me. It's late.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2014
  8. Shadowex3

    Shadowex3 Very Tilted

    I was typing the quoted chunk below while you were typing this and didn't see it, but it actually works as a response anyway.

    The problem is you think feminism as a whole is basically fine and dandy and there's this tiny harmless westboro group that people have a problem with.

    I think it's the other way around. That there are a lot of people online saying "but bell hooks!111" and "I don't know anyone like that" while in real life the largest feminist organization in the US is busy torching equal custody, large groups of feminists publically commit felonies on a regular basis without anyone stopping them, and feminist writers in the media get away with doing things like painting Zoe Quinn as an innocent victim of misogyny instead of a domestic abuser who horribly emotionally abused her boyfriend, doxxed and shut down a charity for women and transwomen and got them hacked twice, lied to start a raid on a community for depression sufferers, and exposed six people to STDs.

    But like I said you won't see any of that reported, because to a person the gaming and feminist media is universally portraying her as the next Jesus Christ martyred by misogyny.

    And if feminism really were what you say it is, if it really were overwhelmingly good and not overwhelmingly corrupt and prejudiced... wouldn't even one of them be standing up and saying "Hold on now this woman's a deplorable person we should be condemning, not outright lying to defend her!"? Wouldn't there be even one single major mainstream feminist calling down the wrath of god on her for being a gaslighting emotional abuser? For shutting down a charity for women and transwomen?


    This is what it always boils down to. People on the internet who say "feminism isn't like that" versus actual feminists in the real world that really ARE "like that" and nobody opposing them.

    And when it comes down to it the real world actions of feminists that are "like that", and the total inaction and silence of feminists that aren't "like that", is what wins.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2014
  9. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I didn't have that cop talk with you, so I don't know what you mean.

    Also, you're wrong about my opinion of feminism, but since I'm typing on my phone, I'll leave it at that. Maybe I'll post more tomorrow.
     
  10. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North


    I'll accept your argument the day I hear about feminists firing rubber bullets and tear gas at male power groups.
    Or shoots some guy six times for catcalling and gets away with it.

    You think the average feminist is going to say that's acceptable behavior, that I would say that was acceptable?

    Your comparison isn't worth shit.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2014
  11. Shadowex3

    Shadowex3 Very Tilted

    There you go again with the manipulative and emotional phrase "male power groups", as if merely wanting feminists to stop deliberately erasing male rape and abuse victims, opposing equal custody rights, and... yknow... committing felonies is some kind of nazi-esque demand for utter supremacy.

    As for saying it's acceptable behavior their actions ALREADY HAVE. Four times now feminists have committed felonies against people at the same place, and not ONCE have feminists done a single thing about it. In fact they've regularly lied to defend those people.

    That's how it always goes. Feminists in the real world take massively sexist actions, commit felonies, violent crimes, send death and bomb threats, and nobody does one god damn thing about it. Then feminists like you online deny it ever happens, minimize and erase it when confronted with hard proof, and finally settle on insisting that "feminism isn't like that!111" even though you have no proof. And when people finally have enough and organize to do something about it you start lying about them left and right, smearing them, saying they're "misogynists", they're "male power groups".

    I've proven what feminism is like in the real world based on the actions of feminists in the real world. Your continued blind insistence that "feminism isn't like that!111" is worth SHIT. You want to say feminism isn't like that? FUCKING PROVE IT. Show me the feminists linking arms to stop other feminists from committing felonies against suicide prevention efforts. Show me feminists marching in the streets incrowds the size of slutwalk shouting "envelopment is rape, fire mary koss". Show me feminists funding male domestic violence shelters, shouting "down with the duluth model". Show me feminists who say "institutional misandry is real". Show me feminists who don't tolerate lies and libel about the MRM and instead stand with it against misandry.

    Until that happens the answer is YES. The average feminist absolutely condones this behavior. They condone it with their silence. They condone it with their inaction. They condone it every time they attack the people that DO stand up to oppose it. They condone it every time they lie about the people who've stood up to oppose it. They condone it every time they repeat other people's lies, and they condone it every time they stay silent in the face of other people's lies.

    Just like you've done this entire time.

    And that's the saddest thing of all, your astounding lack of self-awareness. For all the TFP feminists ranted and raved right here on this very forum about how "not all men" is misogyny, it's derailing, how all men ARE responsible, spreading that 10% of M&M's bullshit... you are yourself guilty by your own standards.
     
  12. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    Shadow, I stopped really caring what you write. I do get that you have a differing opinion, as things go I am okay with that.

    Your method of discussion is combatative and distasteful. Frankly, you come off as an asshole and nobody has time for dealing with people like that.

    I have said before that there are better ways to make your point with doing what accuse others of doing to you. I don't really care to waste any more pixels on you.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
  14. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & don't criticize.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    It sounds like you're thinking of free jazz, where quite literally anything goes. I prefer bebop and modern. I wonder which form of jazz is most popular with feminists and anti-feminists?
     
  15. Shadowex3

    Shadowex3 Very Tilted

    From the guy that routinely completely ignores what people actually write, lies about it to straw man or attack them, and sides with people who think comparing someone to the KKK is a reasonable thing to do.
    "Faux is me" indeed.

    Well it looks like Phyllis is still snorting mercury on a regular basis.

    On the other side of the fence:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Jayd3Fox getting doxxed and harassed. And more death threats. And a UCSB professor gets physical with students on the other side of the abortion issue. And of course the entire Zoe Quinn clusterfuck... where a woman can commit some pretty awful domestic emotional abuse, doxx and shut down a charity for women and transwomen game devs, get the charity's page hacked twice, lie to start a raid on a community of depression sufferers, expose six people to STDs, and still get the entirety of the gaming media to publish articles in sync about how she's the victim and all of gaming is a cesspit of misogyny and woman-hating.
     
  16. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Bad example.

    The Quinnspiracy specifically and the gaming industry generally justify feminism.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Shadowex3

    Shadowex3 Very Tilted

    A gaslighting domestic abuser who doxxed and shut down a charity for female and transgendered game developers, got their charity hacked twice, lied to start a vicious attack on a community of depression sufferers, and exposed six people to STDs justifies feminism. The very same feminism that she's using to dominate the media with the completely false narrative that she's a perfectly innocent victim of horrible misogyny while reinforcing toxic regressive gender roles in the attacks made on the victim of her domestic abuse?

    The only way I would buy that argument is if feminists were doing the exact opposite of what they're currently doing, if they were instead utterly tearing into her for attacking a charity, lying to start raids on at-risk communities, exposing innocent people to STDs, and most of all being an emotionally abusing gaslighting piece of shit.

    If that's the kind of feminism you're saying this justifies then sure I'm right with you. But if you're saying it justifies the kind of feminism that actually exists right now and is busy lying to defend a domestic abuser then you're violating your own claims of what feminism stands for.
     
  18. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    No.

    No.

    This, I suppose, is one angle. Have they sorted out the allegations yet? You yourself have called this a clusterfuck.

    Either way, there are many other arguments to make.

    There are others.
     
  19. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    Having been caught in the middle of one of those horrible situations (though not as wonderfully public as Quinn) where a couple has been using each other as scratching posts and decided to drag everyone into the mess, it's not fun.
    There really isn't a good side to be on.
    On one hand you want to throw up your hands and say "A pox on both your houses."
    On the other you wonder if one is slightly less wrong but you haven't been involved deeply enough and it's just so nasty that you really don't want to be.
    Most of what you get is second hand and so twisted it's just not worth pursuing anyway.
    The people who have picked a side are absolutely rabid about it and want to know why you aren't getting involved.
    Part of you thinks you should be because it's people you know and all but part of you wants to get as far away as possible.

    So in the long run I totally understand why many people don't pick sides on this stuff.
     
  20. Shadowex3

    Shadowex3 Very Tilted

    So as an update SJW/Feminist journalists have decided they're going to dig their own graves with this as they crank out hit piece after hit piece full of patently disproven falsehoods and try to portray gamergate as nothing more than a sexist campaign of harassment against innocent women. They continue to insist that gamergate is a 4chan conspiracy (timestamps prove it's not) composed almost entirely of unattractive white male neckbeards/dudebros/pissbabies and whatever other insults they can think up.

    Of course the literal thousands upon thousands of women and minorities in gamergate have a problem with that, and said so quite vocally as well as eloquently. With the rise of the #notyourshield hashtag SJW's realised that they should listen to the very minorities and women they claim to seek justice for.

    Nah, just kidding, they decided to start calling people house niggers and publicly doxxing and threatening people, including multiple children and game developers all while continuing to cry victim themselves as a cover. They've escalated their racism and sexism to the point of deliberately targeting and harassing black men and anyone else they think is a "sockpuppet".

    At this point not only have the initial allegations been sorted out, a whole hell of a lot more shit has floated to the surface. The original doxxing, threatening, and harassment of TFYC's charity is now a matter of public record since they've given a full interview on the issue (interview Here).

    By the way their charity, a radical feminist charity to fund female game developers, is now past their 100% mark with over a week to spare thanks to /V/ and #Gamergate and despite the best efforts of Zoe Quinn and the SJW's... meaning 4chan's daughter Vivian James was born on September 11 2014.

    On top of that multiple journalists have been found to be engaging in blatantly corrupt actions. For example the author of one of the original anti-gamergate smear pieces defending Zoe was found not just to have been financially supporting Zoe Quinn herself but also to be taking money from Zoe's PR agent. That's flat out bribery in exchange for writing flat out lies to smear someone's enemies. Leigh Alexander isn't much better when it comes to violating basic ethics of journalism. Nor for that matter are any of the authors of other smear pieces such as the New Yorker's hit piece, authored by someone who surprise surprise has direct financial ties to Jenn Frank. That's not even getting into potential racketeering involving IGF and Indiecade.

    Of course the ride doesn't stop there. Depression Quest is ostensibly a free game but solicits donations to the suicide prevention charity iFred... donations which iFred never seen a cent of, they don't have any relationship with Zoe or Depression Quest. Pretty soon after this was found out Depression Quest was edited to say somethin else. Unfortunately for Zoe the National Suicide Prevention Hotline hasn't ever heard of her, gotten any money from her, and has no agreements with her either.

    Our favorite plagiarist and professional victim Anita didn't want to be outdone though as so far the SFPD has publicly stated that they did not receive any complaints from her. Meaning either the police department is wrong, or Anita's been lying the whole time. Given that she's already been repeatedly proven to have completely lied about her history and involvement in gaming, repeatedly plagiarized and stole material and lied about that, and completely lied about the content of multiple games i'm inclined to believe the police more than her. And since she also asked for money in light of those threats it's possible she's guilty of a crime as well as Zoe.



    And not directly part of any conversation, here's a small sample of what the SJW's have been tweeting at gamergate supporters all while crying that harassment is bad:
    Terrorists (http://gamesnosh.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/devin.jpg)
    Pathetic (http://gamesnosh.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/freelance-dev.jpg)
    Racist (Gamer Gate Harassment : Photo)
    Nerds (Gamer Gate Harassment : Photo)
    Parasites (http://i.imgur.com/YYx4VM3.png)
    Worthless (http://38.media.tumblr.com/3f7e5d258c3590d92e21a91c941cfc48/tumblr_nbel0pMV3y1tkhroeo1_1280.png)
    Deserving death (http://31.media.tumblr.com/05ce05fa39964870e51b029b76eb4453/tumblr_nbdot0XTYQ1tkhroeo1_1280.png)
    Confederates, Neo-NAZIs (Devin Faraci on Twitter: "GamerGate is like the Confederacy - maybe they had some points about state's rights, but they attached it all to slavery. Bad move.")
    Misogynists (http://33.media.tumblr.com/33f424d2dca74196a76641c295295c24/tumblr_nbgypnmym01tkhroeo1_1280.png)
    Drug users (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwYnLcPCcAExa7T.png:large)
    Dweebs (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bwjyo6TIgAM-3xN.jpg:large)
    NAZIs (Gamer Gate Harassment : Photo)
    Subhuman (http://i.gyazo.com/af9f579b915579b16382885ee071a8a6.png)
    Sociopaths (http://31.media.tumblr.com/6b838763c2a04c7356eb12aac086d2d4/tumblr_nbdfr6ZW3f1tkhroeo1_1280.png)
    Scum (http://i.imgur.com/rLT5hMG.png)
    Morons (http://33.media.tumblr.com/839ef95775ce258ea9b69e3092b74c13/tumblr_nbaq6t5l8a1tkhroeo1_1280.png)
    Fat (http://38.media.tumblr.com/c006886fc38d780246bb0541e2158026/tumblr_nbaprdoOzq1tkhroeo1_1280.png)
    Nonexistent (http://38.media.tumblr.com/4f6b44d2d02dcf5637449c43f59081f0/tumblr_nbaraiM5CK1tkhroeo1_1280.png)
    Hateful (http://38.media.tumblr.com/04d047edde4912a0ae1d08d5d34eb073/tumblr_nbavqcjInC1tkhroeo1_1280.jpg)
    Autistic (http://38.media.tumblr.com/070bec77b1eb20d7127eeb53e24cd739/tumblr_nb9o4uaZLh1tkhroeo1_1280.png)
    Deserving violence (http://media.tumblr.com/5fcf2906cbd6a4f0a2d0d118938a6647/tumblr_inline_nb9hwmg56l1t04v2j.png)
    Bullies (http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/821/909/564.png)
    Racial slurs (https://forum.encyclopediadramatica.es/attachments/0000000000000-png.47336/)
    Enablers of child pornography/Pedophiles: (http://38.media.tumblr.com/60d8774d77925c6c2b33da61a320fcc9/tumblr_nbgx6jSebG1tkhroeo2_1280.png)
    Peddlers of child porn: (http://i.imgur.com/KJiOEB4.jpg)
    Threatened with violence (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwYqklLIQAAJRrt.jpg:large)
    Shit (Mike on Twitter: "Apparently, this guy gets paid to write about video games. Amazing. #TheFireRises #GamerGate http://t.co/ts4PPb3tl3")
    Manbabies (http://31.media.tumblr.com/7300d99c72d76c2a2b3b90d4c3f9d222/tumblr_nb4nduL6ik1tkhroeo1_1280.png)
    Terrible people (http://38.media.tumblr.com/6f9fb624582e4d5a09ceb2174da96c18/tumblr_nb4rxxXlrK1tkhroeo1_1280.png)
    And trash: http://i.imgur.com/E4kRwKN.png
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2014
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