On Suzy Favor Hamilton and escorting

Okay then. She's a prostitute. I still think her behavior is a pathetic. What kind of woman prostitutes herself unless she's either forced into it or desperately needs the money for drugs, for food, for shelter, or for her children?

I have more respect for women with the attitude that they "do what they have to do to survive" than I do someone like Suzy who charges men for sex, for kicks or to prop up her ego.

I think of all the women out there engaging in prostitution for legitimate reasons. I guarantee most of them would choose differently if they felt they had better options. I don't think much of women who do have those better options yet choose prostitution for the thrill of it or because they're saving up to buy a villa in Majorca and the money they get having sex with strangers is better than they'd get waiting tables. It's a cold lifestyle, it's a dangerous lifestyle, it will jade most and desensitize the rest. It's a trap.

Men will rationalize that it doesn't do any harm because it doesn't do any harm to them. If they consider these women at all, they assume the women can handle it. Truth is, most can't. The emotional damage it causes is insidious but real and long lasting.

Stripping, dancing, posing nude is an entirely different thing. Most dancers I've known have known better than to take it to the next level because they've seen where it leads. Most have a healthy respect for themselves and regard their bodies as a work of art to be enjoyed and admired.

I don't approve of prostitution. I don't think a woman's sexual self should be a commodity. Having said that, plenty of women marry men they don't love or aren't physically attracted to. They give their sexual selves to them in exchange for what the man can give them materially. There's an element of prostitution in this sort of relationship as well and I know very few women who've married into this sort of relationship who don't wake up one day to realize just what it is they've sold. These relationships are generally cold and empty.

Women deserve better than to be used as sexual commodity, bartered for with any manner of compensation or currency other than love or mutual sexual satisfaction, even if they consent to it.

I've changed my mind. I think this could develop into a very interesting discussion.

 

According to my SO (Thai background, and worked with sex workers as a volunteer), a large portion of prostitutes simply do it because it's an easy way to make money and without having to work hard, or requiring any qualifications they didn't naturally have. It's usually in developing countries where a lack of jobs or sustainable wages force many to sell themselves.

Nazi friend has been friends with a fairly large number of high-priced escorts in Sydney, and said the same thing about them and their easy-life attitudes.

 

I'm glad we all feel zero qualms about projecting our own ideas about sexuality and appropriate sexual behavior onto some woman whom we know only via the stories we've read about her in the media. $600/hr. Seems unlikely she was feeding some sort of drug habit in back alleys with pimps waiting nearby to take 80%.

She hasn't done anything that a professional athlete hasn't done, and the mental and physical health risks associated with, say, a career in the NFL seem much more solid from a scientific basis than the vague aspersions about the mental/spiritual health of upper class sex workers that accompany discussions like this. What are the concussion rates for high priced call girls? I don't know that I've ever read a NFL thread tsk-tsking at someone like Adrian Peterson for being so willing to trade his health for money. I don't recall ever reading any concerned posts wondering about Peyton Manning's mental health and decrying the exploitative system that is the NFL. If only Megatron hadn't come from a broken home! Then maybe he could be enjoying a life where he didn't feel the need to let other people use his body for money! If we gave her half as much credit as we give anyone wearing a football helmet, then we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Some lady with a marketable body is selling that body for a handsome amount of cash. Meh. Sounds like her husband wasn't happy, but apparently wasn't unhappy enough to leave her. I bet we can all come up with a thousand self-affirming ways of rationalizing his choice, but to me, sounds like a general approximation of every other marriage I've ever come across. Assuming she isn't any more mentally fucked than anyone else, I say, good for her. I hope her kid doesn't get fucked up in the emotions from getting exposed to all the judging and armchair psychology directed towards her mom.

 

For the record, I also believe that football is stupid, the culture of it probably not one that promotes mental and spiritual growth, and that it should not be illegal.

However, human beings are not designed to have their most intimate, vulnerable, and psychoemotionally primal moments with one another by sublimating their homosexual impulses into bursts of rage surrounding the pursuit of a lump of leather and plastic in front of a giant crowd of loudmouth beer-guzzlers. They are designed to have such experiences in sexual relations. The issue at hand is not the exploitation of athleticism, which would make it irrelevant whether such exploitation of the body took place in a stadium or a hotel room. The issue is being willing to exploit as a mundane business something that is supposed to be intensely personal, meaningful, and private (in a removed and elevated sense, not a shameful sense).

I really don't see what has been exceptional in this thread: I haven't seen anyone say this woman is evil, or deserves terrible punishment for what she's done. I have seen a lot if concurrence that this is unhealthy behavior. And it is. One need not be friends with a person, or necessarily know them at all, to be able to see a certain act and see that it exemplifies unhealthy behavior.

 

I think that the argument can make a lot of sense if one looks at it as if it was the same as providing any kind of service or delivering a particular expertise.

However, whether due to societal attitudes or due to other factors, most who have engaged in prostitution find it harmful. It is wrong to assume that a high-class escort doesn't have a drug problem. They may still be able to hide it and to be relatively reliable but the majority DO develop drug problems. Most need the drugs to cope with the feelings that the work causes, especially after they have suffered assault and abuse (which is frequent in all parts of the spectrum). Drugs and prostitution go together like ham and eggs. The vast majority of prostitutes end up suffering symptoms of PTSD.

Does that mean that THIS woman had these problems? I have no idea, which is why the specifics don't really interest me. A broader conversation is more interesting, at least to me.

 

Levite I don't know that anyone is in a position here to credibly make sweeping claims about the things for which human beings are designed. The idea that sex should be "intensely personal, meaningful, and private" is nice, but not at all objective and not necessarily something that is sensible to apply to everyone else. You are projecting your values onto the the woman in question and then judging her for failing to comply.

If we weren't in such a sexually schizophrenic culture, this woman's situation wouldn't necessarily be an event worthy of discussion at all.

Alistair Do you have any sort of empirical evidence that high-class prostitutes tend to develop drug problems? Do you attribute the development of drug problems in sex workers to the sex work itself, or to the conditions which lead a person to end up being a prostitute (poverty, abuse, etc)? If one could somehow control for these other factors, do you think that there would be any difference in drug abuse prevalence between prostitutes and the general public? Why? I suspect that there are different reasons people go into prostitution and that these reasons are more closely associated with abuse and mental illness than the sex work is.

Musicians tend to develop drug habits too. Do you think there is a reason that society tends to casually judge and feign concern for prostitutes for the mental illness we (perhaps unjustifiably) associate with their profession while at the same time ignoring and in some instances actually celebrating the drug problems and mental illnesses of our artists?

 

I'd be more OK with it if she had some meat on her ass. The rest of it - name, history, and all other details are completely irrelevant.

 

Incidentally, I absolutely agree with you that the adventures/misadventures of this particular woman should not really be worthy of discussion. However, you ask some very good questions of a more general nature. I'm not sure I can answer them satisfactorily, but I can at least give an opinion.

Empirical evidence is extremely hard to get hold of when it come to prostitution. It is understandable why that would be, but it's frustrating. There is also more empirical evidence available on street prostitution than there is on "escorts". One difficulty is that any evidence gathered may be biased towards a particular group and not be representative. Are reports of drug problems reported because those participating in a study disproportionately had drug problems? It's hard to tell, and that has to be a caveat.

Having said that, there are some reports. One is "Prostitution and Drugs" by Paul J. Goldstein. However, this is from 1979. Have things changed? I suspect they have outwardly, but that the nature of the women and the business hasn't changed much.

One factor that is often discussed is the relationship with drugs. Drug use doesn't always imply causality. There are times when drug use leads people into prostitution to pay for their drugs, certainly. However, many enter prostitution with few, if any drug problems and develop increasing drug use as their prostitution career develops. Some, I am sure, have no issues with drugs (usually quoted as somewhere between 13% and 20%).

Given that many do turn to drugs to deal with the work (as opposed to turning to the work to deal with an addiction), two questions arise (for me). Why do they find the work problematic (in ways that other jobs may not be) and why do they enter into it in the first place? Or, as you ask, "Do you attribute the development of drug problems in sex workers to the sex work itself, or to the conditions which lead a person to end up being a prostitute (poverty, abuse, etc)?".

I don't think I can give a definitive answer. I'm not sure anyone can. What I think is that it is a combination of all of the above. We know that a high proportion of people entering prostitution have suffered some kind of abuse or neglect during their upbringing. We also know that there is a stigma associated with prostitution and we have all been conditioned during our upbringing to look at it quite differently from other personal services (like hair-dressing!). This generally serves to make prostitution taboo and, usually, a decision that people need to wrestle with. In some cases (and maybe this case) the very taboo nature may attract some people, but I suspect that such people are just visiting (like a heroin "chipper") rather than living "the life". Whether the latter escape the feelings that most prostitutes have to deal with is something I don't know. I did note that this woman has been seeing a therapist but that may be for completely different reasons. I suspect it is.

Having taken the decision to try it, there are early stages. On the one hand, there is the affirmation of receiving money - money that is a clear demonstration that you are "worth" something. There is also some exhiliration that money can be earned so quickly. On the other, there is some role and identity confusion/disturbance. The prostitute labels himself/herself as a prostitute - or doesn't, and wrestles with the idea of being a non-prostitute who prostitutes. Some rationalisation is required.

Then, of course, there is dealing with the client. Prostitutes don't get to choose their clients. They may be physically unappealing. They may be unpleasant. Sometimes, they may be likeable. Either way, to become intimate with someone we find unappealing, we need to find a way of dealing with it mentally. The way we do this is by dissociation - a coping mechanism to protect ourselves.

This can become much more difficult when the time comes to meet a client who may be abusive, aggressive or downright dangerous. It doesn't matter whether this happens in a car or a 5 star hotel. It has to be very frightening and very difficult to handle. It may involve rape, physical harm (cuts, bruises), verbal abuse - the full gamut. It doesn't matter what "end" of the spectrum a prostitute operates at, it will happen sooner or later. Why? Because of the law of averages. Men use prostitutes for a number of reasons. Some men do so because they are angry and/or enjoy demonstrating power over who they have "bought", who view prostitutes as the lowest of the low and who have no empathy - sociopaths and people who may have an antipathy towards women. Sooner or later, if in the business long enough, the prostitute will meet one. It's as certain as it is certain that, sooner or later, she will be arrested if she continues.

Once this has happened, every client is a potential hazard. Knocking on the door is a reminder. Something is needed to take the edge off the fear. This will either be a drug or a deeper psychological splitting. Both are harmful.

What if this never happens? Well, we are then left with the question of how the prostitute feels about what he/she is doing. Are they proud? Do they want to tell the people they love? Are they dealing with shame? I think shame comes in for most, and I think shame is a destructive emotion.

Regarding the comments about musicians, I don't pretend that prostitutes are the only people facing pressures and problems related to their work. I wouldn't celebrate anyone struggling emotionally and I don't believe that it helps their art or anything of the sort.

I would say that prostitutes are subject to the same emotions as any of us and that any of us, facing the same challenges, would struggle.

Just to reiterate, there is a lot of research and empirical evidence on street level prostitution and very little on the "high end". I am transposing some of this onto the "high end". I absolutely admit that I could be wrong and that most high end prostitutes may be well-balanced and happy - but I don't believe that to be the case. The differences are largely cosmetic, especially once the work itself is under way. To my mind, the venue doesn't alter the experience THAT much.

Not a great answer, but hopefully enough to explain where I am coming from.

 

Very largely agreed with Alistair

I wanted to add on his closing note that a large percentage of high-class escorts is well-educated, well-mannered and their transactions are mostly of a different nature than pure sex. Many of their clients seek them out for multi-hour companionship (events, gala, dinner, informal meetings) to talk and interact with meaningfully prior to "consummating" the contract. I'd like to corroborate this by adding a study or two, but getting my ebscohost details is gonna be a pain right now.

At the same time, they also experience horrible abuse at some point and as far as the ones I know of, they enjoy a strong consumption of alcohol/illegal drugs on a regular basis. Presumably to deal with the negative consequences.

Some escort agencies, though, give the option to the escort to decide by themselves whether he/she follows the client up to the hotel room. Maybe they fare better than their colleagues.

 

Here is another article about this line of work. It is interesting to learn about what it really is like, and the fact that sex is so open and easily accessible compared to what my understanding of relationships is like.

Why I'm Happy I Became a Prostitute | Alternet

HBO's CatHouse TV show is interesting too.

 

Once you have put a $$$ on a physical act, how can you ever reproduce that act, no matter how different the surroundings or circumstances, without that bitchy little voice adding up what it's street value would have been worth?
A friend, (who attended College with me under the Welfare, I got pregnant while working, back to school program) admitted she still caught herself adding up the imaginary worth, when having intercourse with her "Love of Her Life".
It also seemed as if her self image revolved more around her "worth" than every other girls weight, looks, breast size did.

 

Most commenters have been pretty critical of her and have labelled her as pathetic or stupid. I didn't read the story that way. She is accomplished, incredibly sexy, appears to love sex, probably wasn't in a marriage that accommodated her desires, and so she went for it. I don't think that makes her crazy or pathetic - though it was certainly risky and edgy. I'm sorry for the pain this revelation has caused her family, but I don't see that a lot of people, including Suzy, were hurt here. (The truth is, if I'd known she liked meeting with couples - she did - I'd have looked into it, though it was expensive.) Man, there are a lot of sexual activities which are immediately labelled as disordered by most of us, and slowly, slowly, I'm started to open up and realize sex is just my body playing with your body. Like running, like dancing. Most of us are turned on by the same silly things, someone said, but we tend to not want to admit it. I'm glad I'm in a great relationship with a woman - open, honest, sexual - and with that foundation, I think we ought to be able to do anything that is consensual and doesn't hurt other people. I wish Suzy the best.