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TFP 2016 Updated!

Our Presidential Debate

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by genuinemommy, Aug 3, 2016.

  1. genuinemommy

    genuinemommy Moderator Staff Member

    This is a debate thread. It is meant to be an enjoyable, lively debate. But it is not comedy.


    Here is how it will work. I will act as moderator. I will present topics. There will be a new overarching topic presented once a month. You will present your take on your respective political candidates' perspective on each topic. You may include links to substantiate your writing, but it is not necessary. You will "be" your candidate. You will do your best to respectfully portray their perspective in wording similar to their own (but not plagiarized). If the conversation picks up, I will offer additional sub-questions on each overarching topic as needed, up to once a day.

    Memes are not welcome here, and will be deleted (unless made by meltedmetalglob, because face it, he's wonderful).

    Take a side. It does not have to be your side. In fact, it will be more fun if you present something other than your personal political beliefs.

    We need equal participants on each side of this thread before the debate will begin. I would like to see 2 or more people on each side (note this has become a 4-sided debate). If you want to join in once the debate has begun, a counterpart representing at least one other side must present themselves before you both can join in.

    Donald Trump:
    No One



    Hillary Clinton:
    Redux
    RedRaven

    Gary Johnson:
    Rogue49


    Jill Stein:
    Wye



    For now, respond with what side you are willing to take.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2016
  2. martian

    martian Server Monkey Staff Member

    Location:
    Mars
    I like this idea but I don't really feel like I should be involving myself in it. I will just observe for now I think.
     
    genuinemommy likes this.
  3. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Donor

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Man, take a different side...
    Is this when I had to be against porn in HS debate class?? (I did decent enough, the other kids ended up thinking I was some type of moralist/religious guy...NOT me what so ever)
    Or when I had to pretend to be the general that organized the Manhattan Project to justify why we needed to drop the bomb?? (something that changed my mind, btw...I understand the situation now)

    I'd have a difficult time defending supporting Trump, it's just a no brainer.

    Although, I could be against Clinton, she's no saint...as I've said before.
    And I've got enough Libertarian/Conservative values that I could ding her.
     
  4. genuinemommy

    genuinemommy Moderator Staff Member

    Sounds like you may be willing to take the side of Team Trump?
    You've succeeded at the devil's advocate before...
     
  5. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & don't criticize.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    I need to think about this.

    Have I ever mentioned how much I hate posting by cell phone?
     
    Lindy and genuinemommy like this.
  6. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Donor

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC

    I don't know...not sure about that.
    Trump isn't your typical poltical devil, he's madder than an Abyssal demon.

    I'll be against Hillary, but not for Trump per se.
    Just like I'm not really for the Dems, but I hate the current dynamic of the GOP.
    Gee, sounds like I'm like a old-school elite conservative.

    How about we say, just like they do, for team sports...anyone against Hillary, I can work with that. :rolleyes:
     
  7. genuinemommy

    genuinemommy Moderator Staff Member

    Fair enough.
     
  8. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pav├ęs, la plage Donor

    Location:
    Temasek
    I don't think Trump has a position that is defensible.
     
    Chris Noyb likes this.
  9. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    I'm not going to defend Trump on his crazy statements, or defend the mainstream conservatives hatred for the environment, but I know how I would run Trump's campaign in a positive, pro-business, rational regulation, small government style that he would be a difficult candidate to beat. Maybe it wouldn't win over his base and made him as successful as he has been so far, but he needs a few politicians on his team to help him spin what he says into better statements. Don't ban all Muslims, only allow a set number to keep the ratio of other immigrants to them at a set percentage. Don't say that all Mexican immigrants are rapists, but call out the Mexican gangs and thugs along with the border violence as why we need to build a wall and deploy the national guard to parts of the border. Say that you wouldn't of allowed the oppression of the fallen Muslim mother at the DNC, and would have let her talk. Take a film crew down the Mexico or China to see where the US jobs went from the rural Midwest states. Be pro-police and pro law-abiding, calm black people, but criticize the bad cops that shoot a guy running away in the back, or sitting in a car. Talk about the national debt and the forecast of government and entitlement spending and what the tax revenue forecasts are. Come up with TrumpCare and put out details of how it would work (limit lawyer awards, have the government release pell grants for med school, allow people to buy insurance from the cheapest state, whatever...). Talk about how to start small businesses and cutting the red tape of government regulations and how to help more of them be successful.

    Jill Stein would be an interesting candidate since my views line up with hers on the environment and economy, but Hillary has a lot of momentum right now and she laid out her case really well last week at the DNC convention.

    The problem with them all is that what they are saying during the campaign will probably change once they are elected.
     
  10. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    I'll speak for Hillary.

    I might not be able to defend her integrity or trustworthiness, but I'm a policy wonk and can defend (most of ) her policies.
     
    rogue49 likes this.
  11. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    To be honest I'm not even sure how I would go about arguing Trump's side of the debate.
    I could have done it four years ago argueing Romney without any trouble, just as I did argueing against space travel in high school even though I hated myself for winning the debate.
    I just don't have any way to frame his arguments that aren't just based on emotion, insults, or braggadocio.
    I'll be happy to work on the Hillary team but if you can't find anyone for the Trump team, I'll do my best.
     
  12. wye

    wye Getting Tilted

    If we can only do for versus against Hillary here because no one will speak for Trump, I'd argue in support of her. However, I could alternatively argue against her and in support of Jill Stein.
     
  13. genuinemommy

    genuinemommy Moderator Staff Member

    It sounds like we might have the man/woman power to pull off a 4- way debate between Dem/Rep/Green/Lib. Is this of interest?
     
  14. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Donor

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Only if we can understand lags in time, @geniunemommy
    Work is intense and I may not be able to reply immediately, invest myself there. Only at home.
    We'll all have to realize RL may take priority.
    Without saying normally, but with a debate sometimes the expectation is "real-time"
     
  15. genuinemommy

    genuinemommy Moderator Staff Member

    The TFP is a slow-paced board. Lags in time are expected and appreciated. Thoughts are best gathered and presented with a bit of time to foment in the mind.

    I was planning on introducing a new topic to debate once a month, between now and the election. If things pick up with the debate, I can provide sub-questions to these overarching topics as often as desired, up to once a day. (I edited the op to reflect this timetable)
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2016
    rogue49 likes this.
  16. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Moderator Staff Member

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico
    This election has me as bummed out as I've ever gotten. I really can't even think about supporting either candidate and not need a long hot shower. I've already voted, well need to mail it to the consul but I'm sure I'll not change my mind. I went with Hillary because the shower I need after listening to her is way less then the 5 hour one I need after hearing Trump speak.

    Still the lesser of two evils is still evil.
     
    Chris Noyb and genuinemommy like this.
  17. wye

    wye Getting Tilted

    So will we be able to do this?
     
  18. Lindy

    Lindy Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Nebraska
    Is anyone here undecided enough that their vote could be swayed by a debate?

    This election seems to have boiled down mostly to a clash between two "cults of personality." With the two major party candidates both playing fast and loose with the truth; we're now on a level of "My liar is better than your liar. Nya, Nya Nya Nya." Putting Stein and Johnson on the same footing as Clinton and Trump seems to me to be just so much political/intellectual masturbation, and totally pointless.

    I could take the negative side for either Clinton or Trump. Pretty easy-peasy. I could argue against Hillary, I could argue against Donald. I don't see how I could argue for either one of them.

    The support that Trump and Sanders got in the primaries just shows how pissed and disgusted the electorate is with the political class; the so-called qualified, experienced, and effective leaders that keeps being sent back to Washington through incumbency, dynasty, and the good ol' boy's endorsement merry-go-round.

    So what do we have? Hillary, who epitomizes of the privileged and entrenched political upper crust of both major parties which has proven its inability to effectively govern.

    And we have that egomaniac nitwit Donald Trump, whose sole virtue is that he has brought to the fore the endemic dissatisfaction with the political elite of both parties that is typically just ignored or swept under the rug. And for that, I say "Right on, Donald."

    @genuinemommy, please do with this post whatever you think is appropriate. Delete it or move it elsewhere if you want to. I apologize for raining on your parade. But I think that here on this board you will not find someone to effectively argue the unarguable in support of Trump. And without that voice the debate would be a sham.
     
    genuinemommy likes this.
  19. wye

    wye Getting Tilted

    I think that comparing the policies of any candidates, no matter how viable they are, might be an engaging and thought-provoking exercise. Even without any Trump supporters, we could still debate the merits of different policy positions as put forward by each of the candidates. It could be a good way to stimulate interest in discussing certain topics that might otherwise be less popular.
     
    genuinemommy likes this.
  20. genuinemommy

    genuinemommy Moderator Staff Member

    I was planning on posting a topic for discussion this morning. Unfortunately it seems that we have no one willing to present the position of Trump or Stein. Shall we have a debate between Clinton and Johnson?