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Religion reduces science literacy in America

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by Hektore, Dec 5, 2011.

Page 6 of 6
  1. EventHorizon

    EventHorizon assuredly the cause of the angry Economy..

    Location:
    FREEDOM!
    awesome
     
    EventHorizon, Dec 12, 2011
    #101
  2. EDDIE

    Eddie Getting Tilted

    Nowhere in the bible does it say or even suggest that the earth is 6000 years old or anywhere near that age. The only christians who think the earth is young are poorly taught ones. So...most christians.
     
    Eddie, Dec 12, 2011
    #102
  3. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Alls I know is that evolutionary theory and the Book of Genesis are at odds.

    You can't reconcile evolutionary theory with the beginning of Genesis if you take the latter literally.

    How much of the Bible is meant to be figurative? How much is meant to be literal? How do you know how to distinguish between the two?
     
    Baraka_Guru, Dec 12, 2011
    #103
  4. EDDIE

    Eddie Getting Tilted

    Well, yeah.

    Aside from Jesus' parables, none.
     
    Eddie, Dec 12, 2011
    #104
  5. Joniemack

    Joniemack Beta brainwaves in session

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    Are you talking about the parables translated into English or the original ones written in Aramaic or Greek? Which gospel version of his parables? Whose interpretation of that version?

    There's a bowl of fruit in a room behind a series of locked doors. Those without all the keys can only guess at which fruits are in the bowl. They argue incessantly amongst themselves while those who have put in the effort to obtain the keys enjoy the fruits of their labor.

    A homemade parable. :)
     
    Joniemack, Dec 12, 2011
    #105
  6. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    That sounds really awkward, but it also explains why there is such a problem with science literacy among some groups.

    I just can't get my head around the concept of capital-T "Truth" and believing in it despite contradictory evidence.

    Christianity sounds really difficult to do. At this point, it would take me some serious mind tricks.
     
    Baraka_Guru, Dec 12, 2011
    #106
  7. Derwood

    Derwood Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    If Christians limited their literal interpretation of the bible to what Jesus said, the world would be a much better place
     
    Derwood, Dec 12, 2011
    #107
  8. EDDIE

    Eddie Getting Tilted

    There were a few dozen recorded instances in the four Gospels(Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) that Jesus used parables to explain things. Why is that awkward?

    There is no conclusive evidence that contradicts anything Jesus said or anything in God's word.
     
    Eddie, Dec 12, 2011
    #108
  9. Hektore

    Hektore Slightly Tilted

    What about when God's word says two different, mutually exclusive things?
     
    Hektore, Dec 12, 2011
    #109
  10. EDDIE

    Eddie Getting Tilted

    Uh....like?
     
    Eddie, Dec 12, 2011
    #110
  11. Hektore

    Hektore Slightly Tilted

    Like: Is blasphemy against the holy ghost forgivable, or not?

    Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
    Matthew 12:31

    But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
    Acts 13: 37-39
     
    Hektore, Dec 12, 2011
    #111
  12. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I'm not talking about the parables. I kinda like parables.

    There is no conclusive evidence that God's word is true. So many of us go with convincing evidence or evidence that is otherwise overwhelming, no matter how ultimately inconclusive. I just happen to find the evidence brought to us by science to be more convincing than any in support of what's written in the Bible.

    And then, of course, there are the existing facts and proofs on top of that.
     
    Baraka_Guru, Dec 12, 2011
    #112
  13. Willravel

    Willravel Getting Tilted

    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Can we just make one big thread called 'Eddie Says the Darndest Things' so we can start having conversations again?
     
    Willravel, Dec 12, 2011
    #113
  14. Joniemack

    Joniemack Beta brainwaves in session

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    Why is that, you think? I mean, why didn't he just speak plainly? Why all the obtuseness? I can fully understand the fairly complex scientific theory surrounding the origin of the universe. I certainly don't need explanations which have been dumbed down. Was Jesus in his deity not aware that one day we would be able to "get" the unparablized grown up version? Did he fail to see our eventual progress in understanding the world around us? Surely, if he was really God superimposed on Earth he would anticipated our sophistication and there'd be an advanced edition somewhere.
    --- merged: Dec 13, 2011 3:12 AM ---
    Can we get a mod to redirect everything there? Sounds like a winner thread to me.
     
    Joniemack, Dec 12, 2011
    #114
  15. Hektore

    Hektore Slightly Tilted

    One of the things I thought we might eventually get to is the problem with capital-T "Truth" as you put it. There is a certain set of arguments common to the faithful that, even in the versions of christianity that are not equivalent to an 'intellectual lobotomy', are bad moves for rational discussion. Revealed truth or faith truth ("True for me") are bad arguments. They're inaccessible to everyone but the 'chosen' person and because of that completely indistinguishable from 'hokum I just made up'.

    I hear many people, on here as well, who say "They're otherwise reasonable poeple, they accept evolutoin and don't want to blow up the world to hasten Christ's second coming why not just let them have their faith?".

    The problem is once you allow those arguments, declared those arguments an acceptable 'move', you've now allowed them for the folks who want to use this same reasoning to take the train to crazy-town. The point isn't really whether or not their faith is harmful but where the bar is for grown-up discussions.
     
    Hektore, Dec 12, 2011
    #115
  16. Joniemack

    Joniemack Beta brainwaves in session

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    It's curious to me why those with opinions that must be filtered through a creator God, are interested in discussions where faith is not a factor. This particular discussion does allow for some religious opinion but I'd prefer those who engage to do so with an open mind and provide more than a bible quote to support their opinions. It's getting tedious.
     
    Joniemack, Dec 12, 2011
    #116
  17. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    The idea of self-evident truths was under scrutiny during the modernist movement and took a savage beating during the postmodernist movement. This wasn't just religion. It wasn't just the institution of religion that held its own set of "it is because it/we say(s) so." Government, education, the arts, and even science to a degree had problems of deception with regard to what was considered accepted policy. It comes down to the concept of knowledge/power, where "knowledge" is determined by those in power (to oversimplify).

    The church was just one aspect of that. Much of the turbulence and progress of the 20th century is owed to the upheaval coming out of the criticism of "one truth, one reality" as ultimately fraudulent and deceptive.

    This is why I don't paint everyone with the same brush. Many of the Christians I know are liberals, if not post-Marxists or social democrats. This stuff I keep hearing about the Bible belt down south sounds incredibly exotic to me.

    But we Canadians are all socialists, so whaddya do, right?
     
    Baraka_Guru, Dec 12, 2011
    #117
  18. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Very Tilted

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico
    I believe this issue was resolved this morning, thanks to all the members who managed to maintain civility while the staff dealt with this matter.
     
    Tully Mars, Dec 13, 2011
    #118
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