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Politics The 2016 US Presidential Election

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by ASU2003, Mar 23, 2015.

  1. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Here's the problem with that...they will NOT learn the lesson.
    Time & trend has shown they are truly incapable.

    I'd rather there be no movement...but as little impact as possible.
    And if the GOP can win by being a party of NO, then the Dems can do the same. (and it would train them to increase their spines and work together, which they don't do as well as the GOP)

    The only thing that seems to work in DC these days is momentum.
    If you wait until only certain times, they'll steamroll you.
    The key is to be consistent.

    Sad...but true.
    I wish it were otherwise.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Since the other thread is still locked...I'll post this here. (besides, I guess he's not president yet...and they're still counting...and they electors haven't voted yet...not that it's likely things will change...but it's been a very weird year)
    This from a conservative GOP ex-CIA officer (AND independent prez candidate, that got mostly traction in Utah)
    Trump’s Threat to the Constitution

    Makes some very valid points.
    Article XII ???
     
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  3. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
  4. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    I'm not sure how well it would go over with the large segment of Tea Bagger Republicans who hate moderate Republicans and Democrats. If Kasich would have won, I wouldn't feel like it would be the disaster that I think the next 4 years will be. Something simple like a phone call from Taiwan could lead to China flexing it's muscle in the South China Sea, leading the US military leaders to recommend that Trump do something or else look weak, the right wing media would push him, and then it will spiral out of control.

    In terms of what is best for the country, Kasich might be the best option. If the electoral college would switch their votes for Hillary, it would be a nightmare. Even if the recounts proved that Hillary won in WI, MI , and PA, it would be seen as a rigged system and I wouldn't be surprised if some armed right wing groups would fight back.

    But the only way I see this electoral college defeat happening is if Trump is found guilty of doing something wrong.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Well...Hell...
    NOW I know how the racists felt when Obama was elected. (just sucks when someone you detest wins)

    AND I know how the traditionalists felt when he didn't wear his "Flag Pin" (it upsets you when your leader does something "un-presidential" :rolleyes:)
     
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  6. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Ok, the election saga continues...with the new revelation of the CIA report stating Russia's intent to give undermine Hillary and thus give advantage to Trump. (and of course, the FBI waffling...are they even reliable anymore on this topic??)
    December 19th is the deadline as far as US Constitution is concerned.
    Unlikely to overturn things...but this has been a VERY weird year...and then some.

    So to the point..."Will to power"
    Trump, McConnell, Putin, and the Triumph of the Will to Power

    This like the scenario of a pacifist being confronted by a killer.
    Yes, one may win ethically...but the other survives.
    Anything to win.

    The Dems keep playing by the rules and honorably (by comparison, at least...they are far from saints or perfect)
    The GOP leans to bending the rules (at least, lately more so)

    Has it gotten to party over country?? Or is the party just a platform to their power?

    Is this where all the megalomaniacs win??

    You can tell who's is and not...
    Ex: Kasich turned down the potential electoral compromise of both Dem & GOP voting for him.
    Trump is denying any intelligence saying there could be a problem.
    Clinton has backed off recount pushes (the campaign represented but didn't push or sue for it)
    ...McConnell puts in his own wife as a Cabinet member

    Anything for power.
    The only thing we haven't gotten to yet is violence and murder. (I guess we should be grateful we've gotten out of that stage...except Putin, of course :rolleyes:)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Remixer

    Remixer Middle Eastern Doofus

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Came across a reddit comment that just about sums the whole outrage over Russian interference up for me:
    Source: What the rest of the world are thinking right now... • /r/AdviceAnimals
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Remixer

    Remixer Middle Eastern Doofus

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Found something else insightful. Guess Hillary shot herself in the foot without anyone else's help.

    Source: Boston Globe Op-Ed: Hillary Lost Thanks to One Word, and It's Not 'Russia'
     
  9. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Yes, but even the "deplorables" comment was piecemealed and taken out of context.
    This whole campaign has been a series of negative spins versus Hillary...and the media harping on the fact, because they really had nothing else to talk about. (other than emails)
    They were an instigator of false equivalence.

    And if the note on Podesta's password is true...it's just part of the running joke.
    As a tech who has dealt with cybersecurity over a long career...this occurs EVERYWHERE...and often.
    Not just in government...but in corporate world too.

    All the stupid and silly things that people do in their personal lives and computer interactions...they also do AT WORK.
    We've had the security technology.
    We've had the proper protocols and rules.
    FOR YEARS...
    It's just that people (including security and admins) are lazy and neglectful...and do things because they want to make it easy, not deal with it and not be inconvenient.

    I can't tell you HOW MANY times...including to this day, how there are bad decisions and settings made on computer security.
    No logging...no one reviewing the logs...no reporting...lax passwords...open ports...privs that are obsolete...etc, etc, etc and so on...

    THAT is the joke about Hillary's emails...it's not that she did it or not...or that it was "wrong" or not... (it was foolish, it wasn't really that bad...not with ALL the other things execs do by comparison)
    It's that it happens AGAIN & AGAIN with oh so many people...and especially with people of authority, because they are "too busy" and they have enough "oomph" to push things through...or people won't bother them with real issues or concerns.

    This is why the bad guys get through.
    This is why China is stealing our technology and got all the info from OPM
    This is why Russia was able to pick and choose what it found...to influence the election...and provoke our less than aware citizens...from either hacking by intent...or random findings from probes by bots.
    This is why hackers are able to hold hospitals hostage for blackmail.
    And so on...

    We are a nation that CONSTANTLY leaves the door open.
    Or has a weak lock on the door.
    Or leaves the key under the mat.
    Thieves are not that smart...but they're not THAT dumb. (we make it easy on them...and even easier for intelligent trained hackers working under orders by a foreign nation with BILLIONS at their disposal...and want to see US fail)

    WE are a bunch of lazy idiots!!

    Saying OMG!! Someone broke in...how could THIS happen??
    Saying to others..."did you lock the door?" how could you forget?
    Saying beforehand...I'm not worry about that...it's not likely to happen. (the "it won't happen to me" syndrome...a bunch of ostriches with our heads stuck in the sand)

    We are the folk that don't change our oil...ignore the warning light...and are SHOCKED when our engine is fried. (AND how much it will cost...)

    We are the people who leave the kid in the oven of a car...while "tisking" the mom swatting the butt of a kid in the store in anger. (this is called "false equivalence")

    The people want good government???
    Start with the person looking at themselves in the mirror!

    The people want good security???
    Start with the person looking at themselves in the mirror!

    But Noooo...that's too inconvenient.
    Let's just find a scapegoat.
    Blame someone else.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member


    My favorite part is going with a "the Russians couldn't hack a basement server!" argument while also offering a "Russians hacked the election electronics!" argument.

    I'm not a Trump supporter at all, but the stuff flying around since he is elected is every bit, or even more, laughable than the stuff he was hurling at the wall before the election.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    Typo led to Podesta email hack: report

    Or it was a simple phishing attempt that nobody should fall for in 2016.

    It will be interesting to see if the Republicans in Congress will investigate the Russian involvement, or if they are just the happy beneficiaries. It started with Bradley Manning releasing the state dept e-mails, and there wasn't anything good there. Then Snowden was able to somehow copy tons of data and impersonate the top users or was just able to use an admin account and flee to Hong Kong and Russia. Causing big problems and distracted from what needed to get done, hurt the image of America internationally, and didn't change anything. And then the DNC e-mails, Hillary's 30,000 e-mails she stupidly wiped, and Podesta's e-mails... It looks like a well planned effort to attack Hillary and the Democrats years in the making, even if the Democrats stupidly said things in some e-mails they shouldn't of.

    Although it was the media's obsession at covering e-mail related crap instead of the real issues and plans that made it easier for the right wing to convince the few moderates and independents left to vote for Trump.

    And maybe the media should investigate why Obama and Hillary have such low approval ratings in Russia. And what is really going on in Syria, Ukraine, NATO, and other places.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
  13. Lindy

    Lindy Moderator Staff Member

    Location:
    Nebraska
    Well. Imagine that! The electoral College is way to mitigate the tyranny of the majority.
     
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  14. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    But the reverse is also true. Why do a lot of states with less population and political parties with fewer votes get more representation in government? Why is there a North and a South Dakota? Why shouldn't California break up into 10 states to get 20 senators and more electoral college votes? Why should Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina get to pick who will have the best shot of winning the primaries for both parties and get tons of free media coverage? Why should the same few swing states get to be the ones who matter every 4 years? Why should we allow the small "states rights" states to pass laws that purposely drive younger and different looking and thinking people out of those states?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Well, they're both correct.
    This is what the Great Compromise was all about when the states were formed.

    But what it comes down to these days is influence.
    If you're a Dem, you want it gone...then they'll have leverage (or whomever is advantaged by the cities and progressive policy)
    If you're the GOP, you want it existing...then they'll have leverage (or whomever is advantaged by the rural areas and conservative policy)

    The GOP got lucky...and the census this time came about when they were in power.
    And they played hardball, leveraging any advantage they had and bending the rules in their favor when they happened to be in power.

    But remember, the Dems used to be the rural, southern and conservative party...and the GOP was the elite, progressive and northern
    ...it's just switched over time.

    Really, the question is not who's in control.
    But what's being done for the best of the country and it's citizens.
    NOT for the few powerful.

    Each party has forgotten this often in the past.
    It's just now, the GOP has the honor of being the party that's pushing the envelope.

    My question is...what's in it for me and my family...and will someone be stupid enough to get us nuked.
    Call me selfish.
    But then again...everyone else seems to be these days.
     
  16. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    Two-thirds of Presidential Campaign Is in Just 6 States

    This is a pretty interesting map of where the campaigns went to in the general election. And it shows that, once again, only a few people's votes really matter. If the state you live in is far left or far right, the campaigns won't stop there or spend any money there. I just wonder how many more people would vote if there vote actually counted? But I don't like the popular vote, because you would see the opposite problem, with candidates only going to the big cities.

    Here is an interesting article that takes a look at 5 ways the process could be adjusted. And Trump would have still won some of them. Like this one, that has even population distribution, just with no obvious gerrymandering. It would be an interesting campaign if they had to use this map. Some areas are safe, others are toss-ups. It would be very confusing to try and count the votes though.

    5 ways of redrawing the U.S. electoral map that actually make sense

    [​IMG]
     
  17. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
  18. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
  19. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    When US advisors secretly went to Russia to help Yeltsin win, it later made the cover of Time magazine as a huge US victory once the info was leaked. There are supposedly over 80 documented cases of the US influencing foreign elections, not including the people the US directly helped overthrow. It's pretty naive to think the street doesn't go both directions, or that these things are unique to this election. My $.02.




    No really, it made the cover, he started with a 6% approval rating. After the US advisers got involved, he ended up winning by a double digit margin. Sounds kind of familiar...

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
    • Like Like x 3
  20. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    I think it might be a stretch to compare the two.

    US political consultants who have worked for US presidents (and presidential candidates) have been selling their services as paid consultants to candidates in other countries for years.

    It is true Yeltsin may have been one of the first and it has grown as a cottage industry since then, most recently in both sides in the election in Israel last year. But I really dont think that approaches a government official at the highest level (Putin) authorizing an illegal act with the intent of influencing the US election.
     
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