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The American public school system: What gives?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Baraka_Guru, May 11, 2013.

  1. snowy

    snowy so kawaii Staff Member

  2. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    The effort to undermine public education over the last 10-20 years has been primarily the work of the American Legislative Exchange Council, a conservative advocacy group that focuses on state level policy and legislation where they have a significant number of members among state legislators who do their bidding. ALEC takes one model bill and it is introduced in every republican-controlled legislature. It is good old boys club where legislators and conservatives from the private sector set the agenda for legislatures across the country behind closed doors.

    Last year, there were at least 139 bills or state budget provisions in 43 states and Washington DC. to fund private schools with taxpayer money at the expense of the public school system. Their secondary aim is to gut the teachers's unions.

    Cashing in on Kids: 139 ALEC Bills in 2013 Promote a Private, For-Profit Education Model | PR Watch

    Combine that with the influence of the religious right who want to "Christianize" public schools in the name of religious tolerance and the American public education system is in deep shit, with no end in sight.

    ALEC uses the same model on everything from reproductive rights to environmental and workplace deregulation to "ballot integrity" (ie making it harder for minorities to vote) and more.
    --- merged: Mar 27, 2014 at 11:36 PM ---
    More on ALEC and education "reform"

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2014
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  3. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    My cousin is a HS Math Teacher...he says that much of the problem is that many of the students don't really give a flying fig.
    And they distract from the others that do invest themselves.
    And they end up creating extra work and attention since you're still trying to get them to pass and care.
    And the parents often don't help, wanting the teachers to do all the work...and make magic happen. (Oh, my little snow dove would never do that... Or "what are you talking about, I don't care)

    This is one of the things that is making him leave teaching.
    The amount of work he had to do outside of class was significant...and increasing every year.
     
  4. snowy

    snowy so kawaii Staff Member

    I have yet to experience this in my own classroom, but I've seen a bit of it while subbing, and in my opinion, one of the things that exacerbates it is class size.

    In classes over 25, it is MUCH easier for kids to "fly under the radar" academically. This in turns enables them to fall behind. Once they're behind, they give up, and then they become a management issue. I would not say it is "many." I would say it is a handful, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease. It also means that teachers are more reliant on lecture, since it's difficult to do interactive, constructivist activities when there are lots of kids in a small room.

    One of the classes I subbed in recently had 35 students. 5 of these kids are known behavior issues in ANY class. It was easily the most exhausting class I've ever taught. CONSTANT VIGILANCE! As a teacher, I can only allow the students to set the tone after a few weeks have gone by. Those first few days have to be mine and mine alone--otherwise the class will degenerate.

    Parents are a weird ball of wax. There is a whole spectrum of parental concern, and it is interesting to navigate.

    Additionally, teachers make a good 50% of their own workload, so I have no sympathies when someone complains about the amount of grading they have to do. There are always other options. I get that there are more hoops to jump through, but it really is for the better in a lot of ways.
     
  5. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    All it really takes it one or two kids with behavior issues and if you have a big class you are screwed.
    Jadzia had a class with 32 kids, one had an IEP that said he had ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder), 3 had been left back, 1 of them twice and 1 should have been classified but wasn't.
    This was her easy class.

    Her one advantage was that she would talk to the kids in ways that she never would have been able to get away with in a suburban school where helicopter parents would have freaked out.
    She was direct and honest with the kids.
    That gave her street cred, enough so that even after they graduated they came back to see her.

    She was getting to hate teaching but it wasn't the kids, it was the administration.
    The constant battle to be able to do your job without being second guessed or judged by people who either haven't been in a classroom in forever or got out as fast as they could.
    The poorly run schools are the only reason bad teachers continue to teach not tenure.
    If you have good administrators who do their jobs properly that won't happen.
    Unfortunately too many school boards are filled with people who have political agendas rather than the children's needs at heart and they hire administrators accordingly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2014
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  6. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    My wife is lucky in some ways. She teaches at a private religious school as a specials (music) teacher. The classes are relatively small, and she pretty much sets her own lesson plans. The parents are probably a little more involved since most of them are paying to send their kids there. There are some scholarship kids.

    There are downsides. Her pay after four years in about 80% of what she would get starting in a large public school district. She's a contract employee, she could be out of a job with no explanation, and as a specials teacher that's always a distinct possibility. Frequently she "volunteers" for programs at the church (which is technically separate from the school, hah!) that are very clearly not part of her contract.

    We pay school taxes for Houston Independent School Dictrict. We don't have kids. HISD is a money pit. We don't complain about the taxes because innercity kids need at least some kind of education, even a much flawed one.

    Some of our friends are teachers in large public shool districts. They complain about having to "teach the test." Apparantly the secret tests aren't so secret; cheating is rampant and encouraged by administrators.
     
  7. snowy

    snowy so kawaii Staff Member

    You could not pay me enough to work for HISD, especially after watching Dropout Nation.
     
  8. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    HISD sucks. It needs to be disbanded and rebuilt from scratch, but it's too late for that.

    That is why HISD and many large school districts offer enticing starting salaries. The problem is the pay raises once teachers are in.
     
  9. snowy

    snowy so kawaii Staff Member

    Yeah, I think this is true of many larger urban school districts. It's why there was a push for schools-within-schools as a fad not too long ago. The School-Within-a-School Model | Education.com

    If you read the article, it mentions one of the critical reasons school reforms are bound to fail in the United States.



    The same could be said for pretty much any kind of school reform in the United States. Top-down reforms from the Department of Ed are destined to fail because of where they originated from; local communities, used to having some independence in education, push back. Even when reform comes from the state level, as it did with Common Core, local districts push back because they see the overriding authority as being too dictatorial. Thus, full implementation is never reached.

    It's been true with No Child Left Behind, too, especially since it was largely unfunded. If people at the top really want schools to change, they will give us the funding to do so. I've yet to see that happen in my lifetime, and I'm not sure it ever will.

    Our schools suffer from similar problems to the health care system, frankly.
     
  10. Street Pattern

    Street Pattern Very Tilted

    Wow. I don't think I agree, but I will need to think about that one.

    Maybe my perspective is too focused on economics, which is radically different in the two systems. The U.S. health care system has been successful at grabbing more and more resources from everybody else. The U.S. public school system has been unsuccessful at defending itself from everybody else grabbing its resources.
     
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  11. snowy

    snowy so kawaii Staff Member

    The issues I see that they have in common is an overburdened system, inefficient distribution of resources, and meddling private interests. Private companies are big players in education, although many people don't see their presence. Pearson, for example, has a lot to gain with the rollout of Common Core, since many districts are turning to curriculum-in-a-can instead of coming up with their own curricula. Additionally, we've exacerbated existing problems with these half-hearted reforms.

    We don't see all of the money at play in education, but it's there. Of course you're right, it's not to the extent of the health care system, but it's there.
     
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  12. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    Education is much like healthcare, law enforcement, etc.
    Many people want it, but very few are willing to pay for it.
    Politicians give it lip service, but won't dare take the steps necessary to make real improvements because they avoid the "T word."
     
  13. snowy

    snowy so kawaii Staff Member

    So here's an interesting piece from NPR on the new assessments that are rolling out due to Common Core: An Education Reporter Puts Himself To The (Standardized) Test : NPR

    The movement is towards actual, relevant assessments. As someone who grades the state writing task in my state, I can honestly say that the prompts the state comes up with do not require students to think hard about ideas and content. Essentially, writing assessments as they exist now divorce the reading and writing standards of CCSS from each other, and most of us know that reading and writing go hand-in-hand. These new assessments ask students to read text and devise a response, which is the kind of writing most people do.

    Here's a link to the PARCC practice: PARCC Field Test Resources Site
    And Smarter Balanced: Practice and Training Tests | Smarter Balanced Assessment Consortium

    But damn, it's going to take me a lot of work to come up with a better way to practice all this stuff more often. My Master's thesis is on daily practice related to the existing state writing task, and now I have to figure out how best to get students to practice for Smarter Balanced. It's okay, though--personally, those kinds of challenges are what I enjoy about my job.
     
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  14. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    One of my sayings, based on the experiences of one of our friends who is an English teacher in a large public school district, regarding standardized testing:

    They want the students to know how many plays Shakespeare wrote, but don't care if the students actually read any of them.
     
  15. snowy

    snowy so kawaii Staff Member

    That's not really how the standardized tests in my state work, nor is it how these tests work. The current iteration of our test is much like the PARCC field test. Students have to read a passage and answer questions that relate to the passage. These questions cover the gamut on Bloom's Taxonomy, from comprehension to analysis; the structured response portion that is coming with tests like PARCC and Smarter Balanced is meant to push kids out of simple recall of knowledge and comprehension into analysis, synthesis, and evaluation (higher-order thinking).
     
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  16. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    I like that idea.
     
  17. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Nationally, I think we've taken small steps in the right direction to correct the deficiencies of No Child Left Behind with adoption of common core standards by many states along with the federally-funded Race To The Top (RTT) program that rewards innovative teaching methods to help students achieve those standards.

    But the opposition from Tea Party conservatives is fierce and monied with alarmist rhetoric of just another example of federal intervention in what they perceive to be solely a state/local issue (We dont compete globally state-by-state). Hell, these folks oppose teaching critical thinking skills or higher order thinking skills, believing it to be subversive.

    I am not optimistic.
     
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  18. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
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  19. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Those "failing" third graders in China can look forward to this....We've been exporting our worst religious bigots (Focus on the Family) to China to teach abstinence only education.
    Abstinence program partners Chinese officials with U.S. evangelicals
     
  20. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North

    I don't know, is it a good thing that our religious nuts are having to go to Russia, China and Uganda to get traction for their evil extremism?