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Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by DAKA, Oct 28, 2018.

  1. DAKA



    The 7,000 people walking north to America, where do they go to the bathroom?

    And eat and sleep and store their clothes?

    And how is it that after a week on the road they are clean and their hair and clothes are well kept?

    How is any of this possible?

    And why do these people, supposedly fleeing intolerable conditions in their homeland, carry little flags from their homeland and break into its national anthem when the TV cameras show up?

    And speaking of which, for oppressed people, they all seem to be pretty well fed, well-groomed and well dressed. Their hair is neat and newly cut, their clothes are clean and in good repair, and they are built like people who have had ample nutrition all their lives, being well developed and, many of them, overweight.

    And none of them look dirty or unkempt, like they had been sleeping on the ground for the last week.

    There’s just nothing in any of this that makes sense.

    Supposedly, these several thousand people spontaneously decided to leave their country, walking north in a group, hoping to trek the length of gang-plagued Mexico and present themselves as refugees and prospective Democrats at the American border.

    Which, again, makes no sense whatsoever.

    And leaves a lot of big questions unanswered, and ignored by the press. Such as, who organized this? Who is paying for it? How have they covered 500 miles in a week?

    Seriously. Any number of American “reporters” have walked beside a sympathetic walker and talked about how this particular woman and her children had trekked half a thousand miles over the last week or so.

    That’s 71 miles a day.

    The best soldiers through history have been able to march 25 miles a day.

    How have 7,000 people been fed and watered? And how have they gone to the bathroom? If the average person across the world produces about a pound of solid waste a day, that means that these folks are somehow disposing of more than three tons of feces each day.

    That’s a heck of a lot of crap, even for a Central American roadway.

    Provisioning such an army of people – the equivalent of 10 combat battalions in most of the world’s militaries – is a large task. Transporting and distributing the food and water necessary to keep those people moving is a massive chore which the press says nothing about.

    The entire enterprise, as a spontaneous ad hoc event, is implausible.

    As an orchestrated international attempt to influence an American election, it starts to make sense.

    And ought to alarm us.

    Unless it’s only Russians we don’t want screwing with our democracy.

    Unfortunately, none of this has made the evening news. It’s almost as if the press, in whatever scheme is afoot, gladly accepts its role as propagandists to the American people.

    Every story is sympathetic, as if an attempt to enlist viewers and readers in this caravan and the politics it symbolizes.

    And so the story is not about an orchestrated attempt to manipulate electoral opinion and violate the borders and laws of the United States, it is about compassion and Trump and xenophobia and racism. It is the October surprise, it is the Blue Wave.

    And it is all nonsense.

    Because all of these people, if legitimate, have the ability to apply for American asylum in their own country – as do the residents of most nations of the world. We have consulates and embassies for a reason, and this is one of those reasons.

    We also have laws and an oath of office for a reason.

    Laws, so that “we the people” through our elected representatives clearly and systematically govern our society. Law is the means by which the people express and exercise their sovereignty. Disobedience to law is disobedience to the will of the people, it is the subverting of their sovereignty and franchise.

    Breaking the law is denying you the vote. Your vote elects representatives – lets you pick the country’s direction – and the representatives write the law. If that law is ignored, your representation becomes meaningless.

    You get screwed.

    And the oath of office?

    Members of Congress – even Democrats – swear an oath to “bear true faith and allegiance” to the Constitution, which establishes our system of laws and specifically charges the Congress with making the rules of naturalization and immigration.

    Who comes across the border and under what conditions they can stay is a constitutional responsibility of the Congress. That is to be determined by a congressional vote, not by a Honduran mob.

    Failure to insist on that – even for Democrats – is a violation of your congressman’s oath of office.

    So there is not a Democrat or Republican response to this traveling army of invaders – there is only an American response.

    And that is: Turn around and go home.

    Because the law of the United States does not allow a mass entry like this. The law does not declare the borders open.

    If Democrats and progressives don’t like that, they can try to change the law. If America’s progressives want open borders and believe all the world’s people have a right to live in the United States – as they say they do – then they should adjust immigration law accordingly.

    But until then, if they are to keep their oaths of office, they must stand for the law and the border.

    And they must tell their surrogates to turn around and go home.

    - by Bob Lonsberry © 2018
  2. omega

    omega Very Tilted

    That crusty old piece of shit that is currently staining the oval office is shrieking about the caravan to distract you from the important shit. The impending loss of the House and the investigations that will eventually bring down Trump and his corrupt accomplices, the Republican party. Don't fall for his stupid games. The caravan is nothing. Don't be a dupe. There are already enough morons in this country. Think about why that shitstick is trying to distract you.
  3. genuinemommy

    genuinemommy Moderator Staff Member

    -+-{Important TFP Staff Message}-+-
    This thread has been moved to Politics.

    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 8, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 6, 2018 ---
    The OP mentioned confusion over how the caravan could possibly travel so far in such a short amount of time. There are plenty of news articles that point out how people have helped them along the way. In Veracruz there was a group of nuns that flagged down traffic to help with transportation, so the migrants wouldn't have to travel by foot through this very dangerous part of the country.

    There are other examples of the kindness that they have encountered along the way.

    They paused in Mexico City and more than 2,000 took Mexico up on the offer of work visas, school for children, and health care. Mexico City set up a stadium to accommodate them, with lawyers and humanitarian aid to help the migrants navigate the process. Still more than 5,000 have opted to continue on to the United States.

    Recent news article where I got most of this info:

    Immigrant caravan reaches Mexico City, pauses to regroup

    There are various reports about where exactly they are planning to move next and what border crossings they plan to approach.

    I am especially curious if they plan to cross at Tijuana. I'm in California, but I can see Tijuana from my window right now. The Tijuana Estuary (a California State Park) has no significant fence.

    I often joke that it would be really easy for someone to cross the border here. They would blend in easily if they have a surfboard.
  4. Stan

    Stan Resident Dumbass


    There are US laws and international treaties that govern applying for asylum. These folks aren't doing anything illegal or even wrong. These types of caravans have been going on for years. Typically, they fall apart close to the border when the reality of the asylum process is made clear. The ones that do apply have a 25% chance of being accepted, this isn't a big deal. They travel in a caravan because it is considered safer.

    The con man-in-chief saw this as good way to rally his base. I expect this to fade away now that the House of Representatives can investigate him and hold him accountable. He hasn't been held accountable for anything in his life.
  5. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Where ever I roam
    I am guessing that there are bathrooms down in Mexico. Some might go to the bathroom behind a tree or in the trash too. If they aren't eating a lot, they won't have to go to the bathroom as often too.

    But, the media is failing to explain why they are leaving. And doing anything to prevent it from happening here.
    Imagine if Trump would have had help from some corrupt states to help him win the election. Even though all the exit polls and preliminary votes coming in were in favor of Clinton by 5%. Then when there were protests, he started to kill the opposition, and his followers also took out people who opposed them. It is understandable why people would want to flee that kind of society, yet still support their home country.

    The Struggle Against Honduras' Stolen Election

    The Violence Central American Migrants Are Fleeing Was Stoked by the US

    But, I'm not sure if there is any outside assistance or who is funding it. Is Russia helping in order to sow discord? Is it right-wing conservatives helping to make them a bigger story to enrage their voters? Or is it left-wing organizations helping to make the journey easier and bring in more future voters?

    Honduras Election A Choice Of US Client Government Or Opposition

    The problems from America's desires to keep the Soviets out of Central America in the 80's, all the way up to the economic war against Venezuela and other socialist countries that try to nationalize the businesses that are in the country is also a big problem.

    Concerns of Nationalization Through Expropriation in Latin America
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
  6. redux

    redux Very Tilted Donor

    Foggy Bottom
  7. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Where ever I roam
    I guess "Latin American" or "Central American" was too long.

    For some reason, I doubt they went into the battle between the the US-government backed authoritarians who help the corporations and agribusiness in this country, along with the problems that come from the poor and desperate from their policies as why they have problems in the first place.
  8. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    From what I've spotted in headline trends lately is that support is waning from the countries they're going through.

    It's one thing if they're trudging through.
    But what happens if they just stop?

    Do they go back?
    Do they stay?