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The debates on the Debates

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by rogue49, Oct 2, 2012.

  1. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Well, I thought I'd put something up for the debates this month.

    Since they are so specific...in substance and style
    and a bit different than the campaign as a whole.

    While I don't think that most watching are deciding on these, they likely will have already made up their mind...maybe not...

    But it's something to discuss, back & forth.
    With the "calm" that we always do at the TFP. :rolleyes:

    Here's a starter for you...
    If there are any you'd ask...what would you??

    I think I'd ask Obama about his overall Energy strategy, considering the recent changes & finds,
    not about "green", but about Oil, Gas and Subsidies.

     
  2. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    I think 85% of people have made up their minds already. But I bet they try to get the moderate independent vote.

    It will be interesting to see how well they answer the questions. I think we will see how softball the questions have been and how there hasn't been anyone else that stands up to the BS and call them on it.
     
  3. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Actually, I think the debates were where Al Gore put the nail in his coffin.

    His patronizing attitude and distain for GWB turned every one off...even more so than before.
    They've been showing some of the clips from them. Hoo-Boy! (those heavy sighs and rolling eyes would annoy anyone)

    Much less when he did the personal-space violation when he stood up near GWB while he was still talking...
    Damn rude.

    Makes me wonder if either Obama or Romney are going to make the same mistake...
     
  4. fflowley

    fflowley Don't just do something, stand there! Donor

    From what I've read, I'm in the minority because I don't know yet who I am going to vote for, and I think that the debates will play a significant role in making that decision.
     
  5. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    I will be listening to the debates from work this morning. Looking forward to them.
     
  6. samcol

    samcol Getting Tilted

    Location:
    indiana
    "Governor Romney, do you agree with president Obama's use of unmanned drone strikes against american citizens, without charge or trial?"


    or "Mr. President why did you ask for the provision to detain American citizens?"

    yeah those wont get asked...
    --- merged: Oct 3, 2012 at 8:43 PM ---
    i'm not watching with the intent of who to vote for, but whether i'm even going to bother to vote. if romney doesn't suprise me, i will stay home.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2012
  7. Alistair Eurotrash

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    I assume you mean "to detain US citizens indefinitely, without charge" (but would prefer you meant "anyone", not just US citizens).

    It's going to be interesting to see how Romney does. They get a pretty easy ride in the US, as I recall, but I don't see why those questions shouldn't be asked.
     
  8. samcol

    samcol Getting Tilted

    Location:
    indiana
    yeah that would be a better worded question. i have a feeling it wont hit home without 'american citizens' though since we do it to non us citizens already and no one seems to care.
     
  9. Alistair Eurotrash

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    It's very late here, but first impressions:

    * The moderator was weak as shit
    * Romney performed well in terms of getting his points across and being punchy and did manage to look presidential
    * Romney appears to have been trained to adopt the mannerisms of Reagan
    * Obama let him off the hook and didn't seem to me to be quite on song
    * That said, Romney isn't someone I can trust ... what, exactly WILL he admit to cutting? He appeared to talk a lot of doublespeak
    * I'd rather see someone really play Devil's Advocate with each of them separately - to really grill them and NOT let them off the hook when they come out with half-truths and lies
    * It ain't over, but I suspect that Reps will be more pleased than Dems
    * That satisfaction may be short-lived, depending on the perception of the electorate (or at least the undecided) on Romney's trustworthiness
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  10. Joniemack

    Joniemack Beta brainwaves in session

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    Domestic issues only tonight.

    I give this debate to Romney. If they'd managed to grind a couple of deep creases into the sides of his mouth, he'd have looked just like RR. Mr. Slick Performance, for sure. Not that he managed to say anything of substance, in fact a good deal of what he said contradicts what he's said on the campaign trail (All of a sudden the 47% matter?). But hey, it's never about substance in these debates, it's always about style.

    Fact-checkers! You're on in 5!

    Obama looked like a whipped pup (Probably thinking about anniversary sex) giving most of Romney's bullshit a pass. He needs to really up his game for the next go round. You can't be mamby-pamby with vampires.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  11. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    Jim Lehrer usually keeps better control, but Romney wasn't playing by the rules and kept wanting to get the last word. I don't think either of them 'won'. It was boring for the extremists on both sides who wanted a snarky debate like you see on TV, but they got into some details, and could have gone on for another hour and not covered it all.

    Romney was echoing Tea Party bloggers when he lied about the $90 billion in 'green energy subsidies'. And half the green companies have not failed, and loans are getting paid back.
    Romney’s $90 billion green jobs attack
     
  12. Derwood

    Derwood Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    I lol'd when Romney brought up Death Panels. That worked SO WELL 4 years ago. DERP
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Joniemack

    Joniemack Beta brainwaves in session

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    Yeah, I can't figure out why Obama didn't point that out.
     
  14. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    I suck at in person debates without the Internet, and Obama didn't want to get into a nasty quibbling match. He had a few things he wanted to point out, and was only going to defend attacks from Romney in this debate. He didn't want to make any negative soundbites or gaffes was the main thing.


    [​IMG]
    This is a big lie. It is the case you get a tax break for moving a plant overseas with deferral of US income/corporate taxes, and the side benefit of a little lower labor costs and pollution controls. If I own a sole proprietorship business and I base it out of a PO Box in a Cayman Islands, I get to spend that money internationally for business expenses without paying the corporate tax rate in the US. Republicans block ending offshore jobs tax breaks| Reuters

    Plus since there is quite a bit of corporate money now overseas and they don't want to pay to bring it back to the US and have it circulate through this economy it is the case. I can't really blame them, but the system needs to be reformed so a PO Box in the Bahamas can't be the corporate headquarters.
    A Plan to Tax the Foreign Income of U.S. Companies | Brookings Institution

    Arianna Huffington: Offshore Corporate Tax Havens: Why Are They Still Allowed?

    He does need some new accountants to keep his tax returns from the American people showing how Obama policies made him pay taxes in his 'blind trust's' Swiss bank accounts in 2009 (although without penalty and anonymity) Death of a Loophole, and Swiss Banks Will Mourn - NYTimes.com
    Romney Failed to Disclose Swiss Bank Account Income - ABC News

    And ignorance of not knowing where your money is or doing isn't a defense anymore for a CEO.
     
  15. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    Because he was careful not to call them death panels. Instead he played on the fear that some unelected panal will decide your health care. Obama didn't bat that back at Romney very well.

    In fact, Obama sounded hesitant and unprepared throughout the entire debate. Romney sounding prepared and on game. Romney sounded just like someone who has spent the last year or so engaged in around 35 debates to win the right to be the Republican nominee. Obama sound just like someone who has been busy doing other things (like running the country).

    Regardless, Romney, despite saying very little of substance, came off sounding like he could responsibly do the job (and that's half the battle).

    Obama needs to step up or he is going to lose this election. Facts don't matter to most voters. Appearances do.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    At least Obama tried to explain it as what they really are, and even said it was against the law for them to dictate treatment. Just that they would research what works and suggest that other hospitals and doctors do it to provide the best care possible at the lowest price.
     
  17. Xerxes

    Xerxes Bulking.

    I just came home and found a youtube complete version. I was able to sit through it and man wasn't it tedious.
    My FUCKING god!

    I mean geezus. We ALL know that Romney flip-flops on issues but who the fuck is responsible for coaching Obama on this? Obama wasn't attacking like at all. When they say the man's a centrist do they mean pussy? He looked flabbergasted that the man he was debating wasn't the same Romney that's been campaigning and that shit bothers me. How did he not expect Romney to not do that?

    You're right Alistair, this was an excellent Republican showcase. They should be pleased and I am well within my rights to punch Obama for his lack of foresight & preparation.
    --- merged: Oct 4, 2012 6:45 AM ---
    Now you see, I don't think so. I think simply SOUNDING like you're making sense is enough to win an election.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 11, 2012
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Remixer

    Remixer Middle Eastern Doofus

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Completely agreed with Charlatan

    A prominent BBC journalist also agrees:

    Source: BBC News - US election: Polls show Romney won TV debate with Obama
     
  19. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Romney was definitely more colorful and animated.
    Obama was pensive as if he was pre-occupied...and too polite and honorable.

    There were many points that he let lie that he should have made a dinger on.

    No knock out, basically a tie...I hated all the stats.
     
  20. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    As a followup...I wish this wasn't a horse-race that the media and otherwise setup.
    It's not about who "wins" and "loses"...but what's said.

    Sure, in classic debates...they are a competition...but in political scenarios, it's about noting the candidates.

    For some reason, I think it's going to be totally different feel in the upcoming townhall formats.

    And even with this "win", Romney's electorial climb is an incredible battle, the map just isn't in his favor.